Feeding Kids

[Toasted]

Help! In the past couple of months I had a baby and was on bed rest for the month before and too busy nursing for the next month. During that time Daddy made the meals and since he doesn't cook it was all microwaved crap or take out food. Now that Mommy is back on her feet there seems to be a big rebellion: no one wants to eat the healthy yummy meals that Mommy makes! I'm not saying I'm the greatest cook but I make some good stuff, I know my way around a kitchen. Here's the situation: I have four kids and I'm sick of being a short order cook and making ten different things for each meal. I want to plan one meal and have everybody eat it, at the dining room table, without people completely flipping out because " I hate black beans" "eww, asparagus looks like green worms" or, " yuck, this tomato sauce looks like the scab on my knee". OK?

So, what do I do? Make them eat what I make and deal with the temper tantrums or be a short order cook? I don't know. I just had a baby and am very sleep deprived. Help me!

[foodie52]

Why were you making ten different meals for everyone in the first place? Now you have some behavior modification to do! Just cook stuff that you know is good for them and that everyone likes more or less. Stay away at first from the hard core "different" foods. Stick with meatloaf....porkchops....green beans, rice, etc. The kinds of foods that are everyday.

When you all sit down to the table, do NOT respond to negative comments! Smile, count to 10 and say," Gosh, I'm sorry you don't care for green beans, but this is what we are having for dinner."

Nobody died from not eating before they went to bed. I guarantee that after a couple evenings of not finishing dinner, your little darlings will get the hint. But you have to be firm and committed to this:BOTH of you. Hubby doesn't get to say, "Awwww....poor babies...let me make you a sandwich instead."

Try it and let us know how that works out.

PS: I've raised two foodie children who are now 25 and 21 and eat everything!

[hjshorter]

Ours are almost 6 and 3, we make the kids eat what we eat. Fortunately they will eat almost every kind of vegetable, so if they don't like dinner thay can have their veggies and a glass of milk. No other substitutions. They usually opt to eat their supper.

My daughter (almost 6) was never a picky eater until she started school. Now casseroles like lasagna are "gross" and she suddenly won't eat cheese. Damn peer pressure.

Edit: D'oh! Of course, congratulations and many good wishes on your new arrival!

Edited April 10, 2005 by hjshorter (log)

[Susan G]

My parents were strict about no negative comments about food served. "If you have nothing nice to say......" is a phrase I still can't utter out loud.

We had one out if we really couldn't tolerate what was served: Cold cereal with milk.

Did we feel left out because we weren't eating what everyone else was? You bet. I think that was the point of the exercise!

Best wishes to you and gaining some sleep! Congrats on the new arrival!

[Betts]

Credentials - dietitian, 2 kids, more than competent cook.

For your sanity and for the long term benefit of your children do not succumb to the short order insanity. This is just a variant of other controlling behavior and it is learned behavior. Since you are an experienced mother, you can recognize the behavior in someone else's kid but can be blinded by your own darlings. Also they can really get you when you are the most defenseless.

I used to do the "good mother speech"... goes like I want to do a good job as your mom and that means giving you healthy food and helping you learn to like lots of different kinds of things so that you grow up strong, healthy and smart. If I give you the things I know are not good for you then I am being a bad mom and you don't want a bad mom do you? Manipulative ? you bettcha but very necessary especially with teens when the battlefield widens beyond the dinner table.

Can you imagine your grandmother cooking multiple meals? I think that this happens because we have easy access to convenience food, convenience cooking( microwaves etc) and the desire to please our children rather than teaching them.

Dinner time is more than designated caloric intake period - it is face to face time, a shared food time and if you are continually jumping up to make something then it takes away from the social context of the meal.

What I did - there was 1 meal, no snacking for 90 minutes before dinner. A hungry child is much more receptive to food. Taste everything but no whining and I did not make a fuss or beg them to eat. The surest way to create long term food issues is to beg and plead and insist about food. If they were not hungry they could just sit and talk - no leaving the table early, running around and no TV during meals. Children will not starve if they miss the occasional meal. During a growth spurt they eat much more than the interim periods.

I tended to cook simple meals, put the sauces on the side and frequently did 2 vegetables. Raw veggies and dip count as the veg component many night .

It has taken 20 years but my kids know the basics of table manners - not a sure thing these days - have a sense of adventure about food, especially when traveling and enjoy a good restaurant. And I won't pretend getting there was easy.

[Toasted]

Why were you making ten different meals for everyone in the first place? Now you have some behavior modification to do! Just cook stuff that you know is good for them and that everyone likes more or less. Stay away at first from the hard core "different" foods. Stick with meatloaf....porkchops....green beans, rice, etc. The kinds of foods that are everyday.

Well, I guess I made all those different meals out of guilt actually. After being on bedrest for all that time I was excited to be able to cook and wanted to make the family real food after all the crap that they had been eating. What I didn't count on was how much they really seemed to like all that frozen pizza and take out food. If I hadn't had to go on bedrest there is no way that stuff would have been in my house. We can't afford it anyway.

When I was growing up, my parents forced us to sit at the table and finish our meal no matter how disgusting we thought it was. Now, Mom was a horrible cook (she's a great cook now-just in case she reads this) and really, it was traumatic and I don't want to do this to my kids. Yet, I want my kids to eat different foods and if I give them an "out" by saying "you can have PB&J" if you don't want what I made for dinner, they may never learn to like different foods.

BTW: I'm not making really weird things. Tonight we had black bean cakes with mango salsa or sour cream, basmatic rice, and steamed broccoli. What's not to love?

[Toasted]

Betts: You are a smart, very smart women and everything you wrote made perfect sense. I really needed to hear all of that. You are so right about the "face to face" aspect of dinner vrs. the food. I wrote my last post before yours and then had to laugh a little. "Guilt" was not ever an emotion my mom or grandmom ever felt- at least about food or the "little ones". If we went to bed alive and healthy it was a good day.

[Toasted]

I just wanted to say, thanks for all the replies! I feel so desperate right now and it's nice to know that others have been in the same situation. I'd love to hear more about how other families deal with "food rebellion" BTW: thanks for putting up with my crazy self, I swear, this sleep deprivation is making me nutty!

[daves]

Our little one (now 15 months) gets to eat what's in front of her, and we don't make her something else if she doesn't like the selection. We also don't force dinner on her if she really doesn't want it. As someone above said, nobody ever died from going to bed a little hungry. Our pediatrician told us: our job is to provide healthy food, daughter's job is to eat it, and pediatrician's job is to make sure we're both doing our jobs ;^).

Lately, she sometimes rejects her food -- not because she doesn't like it but instead because we're feeding her. If we put it in front of her on her tray, she'll happily finish it up and ask for more.

Luckily for us, she does like to eat most things, and she isn't fussy.

[Gifted Gourmet]

I have an only schild and I catered to her food whims until she went away to college ... now she has become a vegetarian who finds most of my cooking simply making do with dead animals ... but we did manage to survive ... and I'd do the same thing again ...

My favorite line on this subject comes from the late Buddy Hackett who said "As a child my family's menu consisted of two choices: take it or leave it." Some wisdom occurs in jest but has the ring of truth to it ...

[kiliki]

Toasted, if I wouldn't eat dinner my parents gave me the cereal option, and I reportedly ate nothing but cheerios until I was 8. And now I love all sorts of different foods, so don't despair that doing that will ruin them.

And actually, once I was about 8, they'd let me cook what I wanted for dinner, so I'd stand on a chair at the stove and make grilled cheese and salad if I didn't want to eat the meatloaf. This is how I became interested in cooking-very soon I was looking through cookbooks and asking my mom if I could make such and such for dinner.

[maggiethecat]

Babe: I feel your exhaustion and frustration, and remember the sleepnessness, breastfeeding issues and hormones gone wild. Take a deep breath and tell yourself: I am the mother. I am the boss. I love my children and want the best for them. And it's time they understand all of that.

If you can find a copy of an obscure Mark Twain satirical piece called "The Appetite Cure" it tells it all.

Practically, plan dinner with a mental list of your kids's likes, and include one from each. Say: Kid one likes chicken, Kid Two likes mashed potatoes, Kid Three likes carrots. They will all make yummy noises about their favorite dish, and perhaps encourage the sibs to give it a try.

All the other advice here has been just excellent. I think the key is the dinnertime ritual. If you and the Dude sit down, calm and expectant of good food and good manners, the kiddies will get the hint. Do the retro thing: Mom and Dad at the heads of the table, food on platters with serving pieces, a thoughtful menu (I hated asparagus as a kid!) but No Way Out. This is dinner: Eat it or leave it. No whining, no grilled cheese substitute, no frozen chicken tenders. And don't make them eat anything that makes them gag.

They won't starve. And I am not above the Dessert Bribe: "Eat your spaghetti with the scab-colored sauce and you can have ice cream."

And get some rest: I'd be toasted too if my feet were in your Manolos.

[TPO]

If your kids are old enough to do anything in the kitchen, let them help prepare meals. Kids are much more likely to eat something they had a hand in making, even if all they did was stir or dump ingredients in a bowl.

From what I have been told, there are a couple of things that are inherent in children that help and hurt dinnertime. One is that kids cannot starve by choice; if they are hungry enough, they will eat. So in that respect, you don't need to worry about them too much. The other is that kids often need to taste something 10 times before they will like it. It's some sort of protection leftover from the days when we didn't want them putting poisonous berries in their mouths as we hunted and gathered. So it can take a while for them to like something.

I'm not a big fan of offering cereal or PB&J as options either, but some flexibility is good. If a kid hates cooked carrots, for example, let him eat them raw with dinner.

[britcook]

BTW:  I'm not making really weird things.  Tonight we had black bean cakes with mango salsa or sour cream, basmatic rice, and steamed broccoli.  What's not to love?

What's not to love? Well in my case black beans, sour cream and steamed broccoli. Because I've been brought up "properly" I'd probably eat them but they don't push my happy buttons.

[auntdot]

BTW:  I'm not making really weird things.  Tonight we had black bean cakes with mango salsa or sour cream, basmatic rice, and steamed broccoli.  What's not to love?

What's not to love? Well in my case black beans, sour cream and steamed broccoli. Because I've been brought up "properly" I'd probably eat them but they don't push my happy buttons.

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Sorry Toasted, I am with Britcook on this.

I know you have a lot on your plate; you must be tired all the time.

God bless you.

You certainly know how to serve your family healthy meals. And you have so little time to cook.

But perhaps if you sauteed some onions and maybe a bit of pepper and mixed it with the rice, the kids would find it more appealing.

And if you serve rice, which is bland, you might want to pair it with something a bit more kid attractive than steamed broccoli, like glazed carrots (only needs a bit of sugar and butter). I like them julienned but cut rounds are just fine.

Just an idea and I may be all wet here.

Hope you take this in the spirit in which it was written.

[hjshorter]

I used to do the "good mother speech"... goes like I want to do a good job as your mom and that means giving you healthy food and helping you learn to like lots of different kinds of things so that you grow up strong, healthy and smart.  If I give you the things I know are not good for you then I am being a bad mom and you don't want a bad mom do you?  Manipulative ? you bettcha but very necessary especially with teens when the battlefield widens beyond the dinner table.

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Heh, I use a version of that when my daughter wants to do something I don't consider safe - "I'm your mom and it's my job to keep you safe, and you want me to do a good job, don't you?" I will remember the food version.

[hjshorter]

Practically, plan dinner with a mental list of your kids's likes, and include one from each.  Say: Kid one likes chicken,  Kid Two likes mashed potatoes, Kid Three likes carrots. They will all make yummy noises about their favorite dish, and perhaps encourage the sibs to give it a try.

Great idea, Maggie. I sat down with Emma back in October after getting her lunches back uneaten and made her tell me what she wants in her lunch box. I made a list and as long as what she has is on the list I don't hear "but I don't like that!" Maybe get their input in planning the weekly menu?

And get some rest: I'd be toasted too if my feet were in your Manolos.

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Oh totally, especially after bed rest.

[FabulousFoodBabe]

.  I'd love to hear more about how other families deal with "food rebellion"  BTW: thanks for putting up with my crazy self, I swear, this sleep deprivation is making me nutty!

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Oh, wow, this is bringing back some memories! On my list of "things I'll never do to my kids" was "make them eat something they hate." If they don't like kale but do like spinach, what's the big deal?

My kids were/are major food rebelliors (cool, a new word!). All the advice I got about "hiding" vegetables in sauces just made me laugh. Even as toddlers, they could tell the difference between Jif and fresh peanut butter, Ben & Jerry's and Graeter's vanilla, ground chuck versus round, if I tried to sneak turkey or soy crumbles into the taco mix ... Kid you not. My oldest got his tongue tested last year and was thrilled to show me that he is a super taster. I feel so much better (not).

My youngest refused to eat vegetables when he was three. Pediatricians said to give him the veg and nothing else; he'll break down. Welllll, after a week of his refusal to eat I said 'enough.' Not worth starving the kid to death to prove a point. (He is 15 now, ridiculously healthy and fit, and is my sushi-pal. He's adventurous about trying new foods, too.) He also has grown a vegetable garden since he was about five, and still won't eat them.

A few years ago, I started posting a weekly menu: Momzee's Kitchen: Home of the "I don't want to hear it." I included Pizza Night and at least one other night of food that I knew they really liked. Sometimes I put it into Translation.com and did a French or German version, as well. I included a "Talk to Me" notepad, where they could write snarky stuff about the meal plan, since I didn't want to hear it. I thanked them for the input, and tossed the list out.

As for the guilt -- you do the best you can. Remember the first time the first baby slept through the night? Oh, to duplicate that feeling. Without the stuff leading up to it, of course!

[bavila]

Oh Toasted, I will be in your sleep-deprived Manolos later this fall. My two-year-old isn't completely picky -- yet -- so I haven't quite faced the battles you have. However, I would say :

#1-Let your kids know that it is unacceptable to treat you like crap. A simple "I don't care for any" gets their message across without being rude. My sister never pushed this issue with my 15 year-old niece, and it's always driven me nuts!

#2-I second the advice that you must remain in control of the menu, but perhaps incorporate input from the kids. Maybe throw in favorite fruits along with the black-bean cakes?

#3-Our pediatrician stresses that mealtime is as much about social interaction as it is about nutrition. He also advises not to get into food choice battles as this sets the ground for poor eating habits (or even eating disorders) later; it also undermines the social aspect.

Take care of yourself! If it's hard to believe right now, remember, sleep-blessed-sleep will be here soon, and your baby will soon be a toddler climbing on top of the dinner table to empty the contents of the salt shaker.

[Rebel Rose]

Congratulations, Toasted! Plenty of excellent advice here. I just want to add (as a stepmother to 7 and mom to 1) that part of the difficulty is that while during the day the kids may clamor for attention or have complaints, it is only at mealtime that you feel slammed by all of them at once, and once one kid gets away with complaining and attention-getting, then they all follow suit!

I suggest giving each kid an assigned day of the week to help with dinner menu planning and preparation. If one chooses not to participate, no big deal (it can be a lot harder to cook dinner while supervising little helpers anyway). But whenever a child chooses to help in the kitchen, then that child becomes your co-host for the evening and will take pride in what's being served. And of course, you can use that as leverage to discourage insults.

Oh yes, and if you have a chronic dropout, serve a really uninteresting dinner, then shrug and say, "Gee, I didn't have any help tonight. It was Little Joe's night . . ."

If they persist in being gross, you might want to calmly demonstrate that you are the alpha gross in the household, and that nothing they can say will faze you. "Tonight we are having bloody scabs, boiled paper and raw weeds, (lasagna, potatoes and salad)."

[lcdm]

I have three girls 12, 9 and 3. The older they get the more picky they are. My three yr old will eat anything (unless the older ones say eiwwww).

My parents were from the eat everything on your plate or I'll make you eat it for breakfast.

Some basics (don't always work) no saying eiwww at the table, if it's a new food you have to try at least one bite, if you don't like it you don't have to eat the rest.

Find some basics that everyone likes, ours are roast chicken, breaded chicken cutlets, grilled chicken, pizza, mashed potatoes, peas, corn, pork chops, fajitas, hamburgers, steak, fried fish, some soups.... you get the idea.

I try to make a meal that has at least one component that everyone likes. So for one night one kid may not like a veggie or starch or protien, oh well don't eat it.

You can try to make healthier versions of their favorite take out food. My kids like to make their own pizza, or fajitas or tacos (they can leave off the yucky stuff). Serve with a side salad or raw veggies w/dip.

The only altenative to the meal (as many have said) cold cereal.

Good Luck and congratulations!

[lala]

I'm not a Mom, but I was a kid! Fortunately, my brother and I were fairly adventurous eaters, but the rule was that we had to taste everything, even if we didn't finish a particular dish. We were allowed to take more of one dish if we couldn't stand one of the others. My problem was that my parents loved green peppers, so we had all sorts of one dish goulashes and stews that contained them. I mean, I LOATHED green peppers. I would take a small portion, then raid the fruit bowl after dinner. Bro did the same on liver nights.

[helenjp]

It's an interesting old world, innit.

My husband is naturally picky though he started trying to eat more things when he saw that the kids ate them!

My mother tried the "starve her into it" approach, and presented me with the exact same bowl of oatmeal with the curdled milk left on it (and nothing else to eat at all) at every meal for 24 hours until I broke down and ate it. It's really a bad idea, is all I can say about that policy.

I have 2 kids, one who will eat almost anything, and who is physically very like me. He doesn't like greasy foods when sick, but I understand that completely and have no trouble predicting what he will eat.

Son2 was, is, and no doubt will continue to be picky. He is allowed around 1 thing that I will never require him to eat (shrimp). For oher things that I know he dislikes, it's a matter of balance - I don't serve them too often, he will try them occasionally.

Funnily enough, while my son1 is more adventurous in being willing to eat anything, son2 is more curious about actual tastes, more likely to comment on exact combinations, aromas, taste sensations etc., and since he turned 10 or so, has developed quite a few unusual "likes" to go along with his strong "dislikes". For example, he claims to like unripened astringent persimmons... , loves pickled bitter gourd and will gobble up a plate of it if not warned to leave some for everybody else.

[foodie52]

Choosing one night a week for pizza night is a fab idea. Friday night is pizza night! The kids have that to look forward to and can't complain that they never get it. And you get that well-deserved break!

My pediatrician always told me that, if the kids get their multi vitamin every day, the vegs aren't critical at that age. So I tried not to sweat it. Also, I'd only put like, ONE green bean on their plate, or just a spoonful of rice. No sauces. Apparently children's palates are much more sensitive than adults' and they taste foods differently. And I divided the foods up on the plate so that nothing mixed in with each other. I know that sounds weird, but most kids like their food separate from each other. I told the kids that they had to have one bite. That's all. But they had to stay at the table and eat with us until they were excused.

I tried not to make a big deal about eating because that's how some eating disorders begin.

Motherhood.......wish it came with a manual.

[kellytree]

We do the once a week you can eat whatever you like and however you like and whereever you like - burp, fart, scratch your privates with your fork if you like.... the rest of the week you have to eat what is on the table - or not eat it -

having said that there is usually something they like on the table and if not maybe they will be lucky with the next meal.