Pasta with olive oil and red pepper flakes

[Adam_Balic]

MASKS THE FLAVOUR.

saying it loudly doesn't make it true.  

do you think a sprinkle of percorino romano (sp?!?!??) would mask the flavor of an oily piece of mackerel?

Sorry, excited about coming to the States. Practicing being loud and brash to fit in.  

[Robert Schonfeld]

only tourists add cheese to pasta

Hyperbole for effect, I suspect. Many pastas benefit from grated cheese, added off the heat into the dish, or served on the side with the dish, or both. Marcella Hazan even has a recipe for white clam sauce that uses cheese. I have seen it served this way in the Veneto. Of course, if you tried that in Tuscany, you'd be arrested.

It's true that pasta shapes and sauces are matched, with good reason, as a particular shape will be best suited to hold the sauce, and enhance the appearance of the finished dish. There are substantial regional "conversations" about this, sort of like barbecue "conversations" in some parts of the US.

If you admired the work of an Italian nonna by referring to it as artisinal, she would answer you with a blank stare. What we call artisinal, they call living.

About the pasta with red pepper flakes: to the very good directions supplied, I'd just add my support to the idea of adding some best quality olive oil, uncooked, when serving. Makes a lot of difference.

[tommy]

Sorry, excited about coming to the States. Practicing being loud and brash to fit in.  

*!@$% YOU.  stay in freakin ireland, or whatever part of great britian you are.

   :wow:

[jaybee]

jaybee, what was the restaurant?

It is a Tuscan "ristaurante" on the east side of Sixth Ave, (pardon, Ave. of the Americas to all you out-of-towners out there) between Bleeker and Houston.  Da Silva or something llike that.  Walking south on Sixth, it is the last restaurant before a playgound.  It was tasty.  So was the linguine vongole.

[stefanyb]

jaybee, what was the restaurant?

It is a Tuscan "ristaurante" on the east side of Sixth Ave, (pardon, Ave. of the Americas to all you out-of-towners out there) between Bleeker and Houston.  Da Silva or something llike that.  Walking south on Sixth, it is the last restaurant before a playgound.  It was tasty.  So was the linguine vongole.

Da Silvano, silly.  Its only the biggest scene going and the most celebrity-haunted place around.

[jaybee]

Da Silvano, silly.  Its only the biggest scene going and the most celebrity-haunted place around.

Really?  Goes to show you what good instincts I have.  I stopped there because there were nice tables outside and the stuff on people's plates looked good.  Also there was this incredible brunette....and the blonde...and...

[SobaAddict70]

*shrug*

for the record I'm Asian (Chinese/Filipino if you simply *must* know), but very well read and more than a little knowledgeable about Italian food, since one of my ex-partners is from Turin.

By all means, add cheese in whatever quantity you desire, but IMHO its unnecessary since its addition will overwhelm or overpower the other flavors.

Robert -- true that many pasta dishes benefit from the addition of grated cheese; but for a dish like what we're discussing, why would you want to?  Although I've seen people add grated pecorino to pasta puttanesca (*shudder*).  This might probably lead to another thread -- is there such a quality as "too much flavor" or "an overabundance of flavor" in a finished dish?  I don't mean an overemphasis on one particular flavor, I mean too many things going on at one time.  Dunno if that makes sense.

Jinmyo -- you might also try sardines or fresh anchovies.

There are endless variations on the pasta with oil/garlic and herbs routine.  There's another I'm thinking of that consists of oil-packed tuna, olive oil, garlic, capers, flat-leaf parsley, lemon juice, shredded lemon zest, and either a handful of chopped oil-cured olives or a sprinkling of red pepper flakes.  There's a second that's just olive oil, garlic, flat-leaf parsley and fried bread crumbs.  etc.

This is beginning to make me hungry....  =)

[tommy]

This is beginning to make me hungry....  =)

i swear that this site has more calories than a bakery.

[Jinmyo]

This might probably lead to another thread -- is there such a quality as "too much flavor" or "an overabundance of flavor" in a finished dish?  I don't mean an overemphasis on one particular flavor, I mean too many things going on at one time.  Dunno if that makes sense.

Jinmyo -- you might also try sardines or fresh anchovies.

Yes, I love fresh sardines as well.

Certainly there can be too many flavours in a dish that are out of balance with each other. Italian cuisines often involve using simply one or two herbs, such as basil or rosemary rather than both.

[Priscilla]

Italians use cheese in pasta dishes.

It seems unnecessarily chilling to conversation to invoke dubious absolutes.  My goodness, as has already begun here, every single no-cheese citation could be countered with a yes-cheese example by anyone with even a smattering of Italian cookery knowledge.

What is usefully avoided, of course, is mindless or inappropriate use of cheese, and not only in Italian cuisine, and not just cheese!

Priscilla

[SobaAddict70]

I wasn't invoking an absolute, just giving my opinion.

But you might agree, it's a little overkill to toss a handful of grated white stuff on something that probably doesn't need it.

sort of like pizza with spam and pineapple (*shudder*)

[tommy]

I wasn't invoking an absolute, just giving my opinion.

oh priscilla wasn't referring to you silly.  it was that damned adam balic who was throwing around absolutes as if they were chunks of cheese at a tuscan dinner.  ooh, bad analogy.  sorry!

[SobaAddict70]

cool beans then.

speaking of pasta, can't wait for REAL (not hothouse) tomatoes to start appearing in the markets....

chopped tomatoes, cold pressed olive oil, salt, cracked black pepper, chiffonade of basil...can't wait!

oh, got another one for y'all:  onions and garlic which have been sauteed in butter and olive oil, one or two mashed anchovy fillets, red pepper flakes (if you want) or cracked black pepper, and shredded or chopped cabbage; cook until the cabbage is softened and tender

[Priscilla]

I wasn't invoking an absolute, just giving my opinion.

oh priscilla wasn't referring to you silly.  it was that damned adam balic who was throwing around absolutes as if they were chunks of cheese at a tuscan dinner.  ooh, bad analogy.  sorry!

Tommy is...correct?  And chivalrous, to boot.

As for Mr. Dr. Adam Balic:  THAT's rich, an Australian, even an Australian living in Scotland, needing practice being loud and brash.  (Not a criticism, an affinity!)

I was OF COURSE not meaning you in particular, SobaAddict70, or anyone else, in particular, for that matter!

As I said, the problem (in any cuisine) would be--IS-- mindless or inappropriate use (of ANY ingredient).

Priscilla

[Robert Schonfeld]

In the sense that the Italian food I love best is reductive in its idea, ie, the fewest number of the best quality ingredients combined as simply as possible (people who know me are sick of hearing this), then, yes, cheese can be a distraction from the elemental qualities of a dish like spaghetti aglio/olio or ravioli with butter and sage. On the other hand, it can be the binder, both literally and figuratively, for many pasta dishes, such as those served with a ragu. It's fair to say that it's a matter of choice and taste (and a judicious hand), but it's also accurate to say that cheese is either a desirable or an essential ingredient in many pasta preparations.

[Sandra Levine]

About the pasta with red pepper flakes: to the very good directions supplied, I'd just add my support to the idea of adding some best quality olive oil, uncooked, when serving. Makes a lot of difference.

Yes, I did that, too, but forgot to include it in the recipe.

A last minute drizzle of your most flavorfull EVOO improves almost any pasta dish.  Unlike cheese.

[helenas]

Red pepper flakes are not generic, a recent discovery for me.  I'm addicted to the Marash Red Pepper from Zingerman's (doubtless available for less $ in a less cute package elsewhere).  It's lively, zingy, tingly but not searingly hot.  I've been scattering it on almost everything, except ice cream. Which is not a bad idea...

Marash Pepper from Zingermans is really that good. And although i always complain that his store is very expensive, in this case, the thing is worth its price. According to Paula Wolfert, this kind of flakes is very hard to find even in Turkey, and she knows her stuff...

[SobaAddict70]

I was perusing some of my cookbooks -- think I'll be doing this for Sunday dinner...

Spaghetti with Garlic, Olives and Herbs

(recipe courtesy of Julia della Croce's "Ultimate Pasta")

1/3 c. (60 g) sharply flavored black olives such as Gaeta or Nicoise

1/2 c. (125 ml) extra-virgin olive oil

6 large garlic cloves, very finely chopped

3 T. chopped fresh flat-leaf parsley

1 T. chopped fresh marjoram or 1/2 t. dried marjoram

pinch of crushed red pepper flakes

salt, to taste

1 lb. (500 g) spaghetti (or spaghettini, or mezze linguine)

1/4 c. (30 g) fresh bread crumbs, lightly toasted

1.  Pit and slice the olives.  Combine all but 2 T. of the olive oil and the garlic in a deep, broad skillet.  Turn the heat to medium-low and saute until the garlic softens and begins to color lightly, about five minutes.  Stir in the parsley, marjoram, olives and red pepper flakes and warm through, about 20 seconds.  Remove from heat.

2.  Meanwhile, bring about 4 quarts (5 liters) of water to a boil.  Add 1 1/2 T. salt and the pasta.  Cook until al dente, stirring frequently to prevent the pasta from sticking together.  Drain the pasta, reserving some of the cooking water to moisten the pasta after saucing.

3.  While the pasta is still dripping and moist, transfer to the skillet with the sauce and toss together.  If it needs more moisture, add a little of the reserved cooking water.

4.  In a separate small skillet, heat the remaining olive oil and add the bread crumbs.  Saute over medium-low heat, stirring, until crunchy.  Sprinkle the crumbs over the pasta, and serve.

[Adam_Balic]

Sorry, excited about coming to the States. Practicing being loud and brash to fit in.  

*!@$% YOU.  stay in freakin ireland, or whatever part of great britian you are.

   :wow:

Huh, too late buddy, I am already here. See how I blend in, already as antagonistic as Plotnicki.  

Boy, oh, boy, are all those Irish going kick your butt. Possibly Wilfrid as well.

[Adam_Balic]

I wasn't invoking an absolute, just giving my opinion.

oh priscilla wasn't referring to you silly.  it was that damned adam balic who was throwing around absolutes as if they were chunks of cheese at a tuscan dinner.  ooh, bad analogy.  sorry!

Tommy is...correct?  And chivalrous, to boot.

As for Mr. Dr. Adam Balic:  THAT's rich, an Australian, even an Australian living in Scotland, needing practice being loud and brash.  (Not a criticism, an affinity!)

I don't believe in Absolutes (note my earlier daring combination of butter and olive oil. Cutting edge stuff), just Yoko and me. Revolution No. 9. (See how I punish you, that song will be in your head for days now).

[Priscilla]

I don't believe in Absolutes (note my earlier daring combination of butter and olive oil. Cutting edge stuff), just Yoko and me. Revolution No. 9. (See how I punish you, that song will be in your head for days now).

So now we're claiming butter apostrophe-N olive oil as some sort of po-mo innovation?  Is that anything like a superrich rock star opining "imagine no possessions"?  And yes, yes, the song IS in my head now, against my most fervent and constant wishes, but YEARS of such assiduous wishing have done me pretty much NO EFFING GOOD on that account, have they?

And, but, Dr. Mr. Balic, if you were going to research an archetypal dish such as the presently discussed, where would you look?

Priscilla

[Adam_Balic]

Most Italian cookbooks will give you the bare-bones, but it is up to you how the recipe ends up. It's a peasant dish, so nothing is fixed. A recipe of this nature is always original by nature. I would say that for such a recipe use the best olive oil and the very best pasta you can get and work up the recipe from there.

[Priscilla]

Yeah, but, in GENERAL...general culinary historical investigation, I mean.  What one surveys when one is surveying the available literature.

E.g., Marcella Hazan is I think an unimpeachable source, and in recent years it's been a pleasure to incorporate Mario Batali's generously-bestowed tremendous store of knowledge, and I find Elizabeth David's accounts of her Italian research electrifyingly immediate AND satisfyingly chockablock with deep information.  Waverly Root's The Food of Italy, which I do not own (I oughta, I realize) but have consulted, not unuseful.  There are others.

Priscilla

[Jinmyo]

Just a two thumbs up for Mario. As I've mentioned elsewhere, that man revived tomato sauce as something work cooking for me.

[Adam_Balic]

Sorry Pricilla I didn't see that you have asked me a question. If I wanted an "original" recipe I would consult several sources (as has been suggested) and compare recipes, find out what are the common componants, then use that as a basis to work from. A source of "original" Italian recipes is "Great Italian Cooking. LA Grande Cucina Internazionale"

by Luigi, Carnacina.

Um, I was only joking about the cheese thing, kind of poking fun at the strict rules that my Italian friends have, by taking on that persona myself (sorry, should have used more of those winky-smily things).  Have you got Clifford Wright's book "Mediterranean Feast"? Utterly brilliant, a great book for finding out about the roots of things.

No. 9.