The Irish Heather

[SushiCat]

Really this thread has become quite interesting!

I too thought what do you expect for $ 15. and I also thought about what SBonner says about a beer and a burger ... well if my $ 15. DOV at Irish Heather had been a good burger and beer, and if that is what I had been expecting then I wouldn't have posted. Instead, I was lead to believe that they had good pub food. Perhaps they normally do, but not what arrived at my table the night I was there.

What I find interesting is this:

*probably the night I was there, Sean wasn't, if he is a) moving house, b) running three establishments;

* in my past experiences a well run business of any sort should be able to keep on going even when the key FOH person is not present;

* perhaps the overall combination of all the factors is just too much for the Irish Heather this year.

I agree with what has been said about not judging a place solely on one night, but it is also important to realize that the dining (and drinking) public does have a choice, a wide choice in Vancouver of places to spend $$, so one bad or indifferent experience leaves a mark...

[John Jameson]

I just had a long chat with Sean. He has been a little busy, both at the restaurants ( He has three operations going ) and he has moved house. He has tried to keep informed about your posts / conversations / concerns / critiques. He assures me that he will be back "online" and respond to everyone in a couple of days. He wanted to say that he was aware of what was being written, just unable to respond as they were still in the unpacking stages.

Neil

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Cheers Neil for posting the above.

I am finally able to view the posts using my cel phone.

The dining room is starting to fill up again, got to go, more customers to disappoint with our OK service and tastless food.

Sean Heather

[SBonner]

Thank you to all who posted after my comments...

All I can say is that I for one never go to DOV for all the reasons we read in these threads. People expect so much from a restaurant and DOV overwhelms many. In defense of the Irish heather I will say I've had some great meals there, I' m not impressed with their wine list, but overal it's one of the best gastro-pubs I've experienced and I've been to many having worked in the U.K. and Vancouver in both the wine and restaurant trade. Try them when DOV is not on. If I ever own a restaurant I would never take part in DOV.

Hats off to all of you and your comments.

Let's enjoy great wine, food, and service everywhere; but keep it in perspective. I'm curious as to what other restaurants ($15 DOV menu) you went to and how they compared to the Irish Heather.

Cheers,

Stephen Bonner

[*Deborah*]

I think it's hard to critique a restaurant without hurting some feelings...and it feels even odder reading these posts since Sean hosted some of us that lovely whiskey and cheese, and he's such a nice and welcoming fellow.

On the other hand, of course, there's no sense praising things you don't like; I think most people in this thread would like to think they were offering constructive criticism.

Oh dear

[nwyles]

I think most people in this thread would like to think they were offering constructive criticism.

But so much of it ?

[appreciator]

I just had a long chat with Sean. He has been a little busy, both at the restaurants ( He has three operations going ) and he has moved house. He has tried to keep informed about your posts / conversations / concerns / critiques. He assures me that he will be back "online" and respond to everyone in a couple of days. He wanted to say that he was aware of what was being written, just unable to respond as they were still in the unpacking stages.

Neil

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Cheers Neil for posting the above.

I am finally able to view the posts using my cel phone.

The dining room is starting to fill up again, got to go, more customers to disappoint with our OK service and tastless food.

Sean Heather

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Sean.... I'm sorry you are taking this badly but I suppose if I was in your position, I might take it badly as well. I am sure no one meant to offend.... I know that I certainly did not, was just commenting on the experience and thought you would like to know what I thought of the meal. As I said earlier, there was nothing wrong with the appetizers nor the desserts, it's just that we felt the entree could have used more flavour. And the service that I experienced was quite good... our server was very friendly and accomodating.

So please do take note of these thoughts in the spirit for which they were intended.... simple commentary and feedback.

Will definitely be back on a non DOV evening to try something else on your menu.

Edited February 2, 2005 by appreciator (log)

[appreciator]

I think most people in this thread would like to think they were offering constructive criticism.

But so much of it ?

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That's what these threads are for though aren't they? If one person posts some constructive critisism and 5 other people felt the same way are the other 5 supposed to keep their lips zipped? Maybe that would have been better..... I don't know.

edited because I can't write properly tonight though my changes have probably not made it any better

Edited February 2, 2005 by appreciator (log)

[sashavan]

This thread is interesting to me. I did not go to the Heather during Dine Out (well I did, but not to eat) but it is my neighbourhood local and I am there quite frequently. I pop in one or three times a week for a drink and sometimes a snack, and always find the staff to be gracious, friendly, and welcoming. My beloved pheasant spring rolls are off the menu this month (Sean? Bring them back!), but I've never had a bad meal there.

As I said, I didn't try the Dine Out menu, but on any given Tuesday? I'd recommend the Heather highly. I live around the corner and am thrilled to have it in my hood. Give it another try on another week.

[SushiCat]

Thanks Sashavan for the reminder that Irish Heather is a great local spot. We decided to try it during DOV ... now we have learned that trying during DOV is dangerous - as in other threads there seems to be some agreement that places may not be tops during DOV.

Sean I hope we haven't upset you ... if I were in your position I would be happier to hear the news directly and still have had so many of us trying the place as opposed to what many of us did with with Bis Moreno.

I'm somewhat sorry that I posted ... one of those times when it might have been best to be a quiet Canadian

Edited February 2, 2005 by SushiCat (log)

[edm]

input about DOV,

last night @ Parkside. Our waiter :

"We tell our regulars not to come during Dine-Out, because we are not

able to maintain our standards"

"25 dollars IS a great deal, you know"

so hell... i should thank them for receiving mediocre service and food?

I feel so blissed...

[inanimate]

While hearing negative feedback is never a pleasant experience, it doesn't help to keep quiet about it either.

The whole point of the forum is for people to share their culinary experiences in the city. If your experience didn't live up to your expectations or hype, talk about it, but also keep it in perspective as well.

It sounds like the heather hasn't lived up to their usual level of quality during DOV, which from much of what I've read, heard, and experienced seems to happen to quite a few participants.

The heather has acquired an above average reputation for their food and atmosphere, and I don't think a few off nights during DOV is going to ruin the good will they've accumulated in this town. What's even more useful in the long run than DOV reviews are reviews from diners during your typical week.

DOV doesn't seem to work as well as intended for showcasing restaurants that people haven't had the chance to go to, since it seems many have trouble maintaining the levels of service and quality that they usually do. Putting a restaurant through a two week slam doesn't really give the restaurant or the diner a fair shake in many cases.

[Ling]

I just wanted to include that I did post in another thread about a meal we ate at the Irish Heather after the cheese tasting that was quite good. My bf and I really enjoyed the mushroom studel, and almost ordered another one during the DOV night had we not seen the curry fries (which were also good, but as I noted, I prefer crispy fries.)

As I stated earlier, the DOV menu was a pretty good deal, but I think the food is at its best perhaps outside of the DOV weeks.

I'll be back to try the other items on the menu, and my bf is a big fan of both the Guiness and Ribena and the Black and Tan.

[Andrew Morrison]

Hear Hear.

Enough of the blanket, firing squad judgements based on the DOV experience. We're rife with them. We're dispensing both benedictions and damnations from lofty heights here, far removed from the realities of the floor and the line.

I feel for the guys in the kitchen who have been putting out the same apps, the same mains, and the same desserts over and over ad nauseum. It's so far removed from their mandate of creativity that's it's totally unfair to toss around our opinions. I'm guilty of this, too. Pot, kettle, black and all that. But I'm gonna pull a volte-face and say stop the insanity. If your server has the attention span of a mosquito in a bucket of blood, it's because the DOV bug has grounded him/her down into a quivering mass of sad sloppitude.

Remember the guys in Keller's Catch-22? That's us. We're a mess. Just give us a couple days, a bottle of advil, and REM visions free of the spectre of a line-up at the door. And someone throw that phone at the wall and grind it into oblivion, please.

And despite the pontifications of late, the Heather rocks (as we all know in our heart of hearts).

[appreciator]

Hear Hear.

Enough of the blanket, firing squad judgements based on the DOV experience. We're rife with them. We're dispensing both benedictions and damnations from lofty heights here, far removed from the realities of the floor and the line.

I feel for the guys in the kitchen who have been putting out the same apps, the same mains, and the same desserts over and over ad nauseum. It's so far removed from their mandate of creativity that's it's totally unfair to toss around our opinions. I'm guilty of this, too. Pot, kettle, black and all that. But I'm gonna pull a volte-face and say stop the insanity. If your server has the attention span of a mosquito in a bucket of blood, it's because the DOV bug has grounded him/her down into a quivering mass of sad sloppitude.

Remember the guys in Keller's Catch-22? That's us. We're a mess. Just give us a couple days, a bottle of advil, and REM visions free of the spectre of a line-up at the door. And someone throw that phone at the wall and grind it into oblivion, please.

And despite the pontifications of late, the Heather rocks (as we all know in our heart of hearts).

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So why bother to eat out during DOV? Gaak!

I've posted about this elsewhere and, as it obviously frosts my buttons I'll just leave it at that.

[Andrew Morrison]

So why bother to eat out during DOV? Gaak!

We gladly do the DOV. It's a no brainer. Even though there's a neanderthal-esque bent to it (good food cheap, arg), these are still rooms that usually cost a pretty penny. What's not to like? DOV rules.

That being said, it's the hand-wringing and opinion javelins that are going to be unfair and off the mark when a restaurant is held to the ballsy point of a critics pen for the duration of DOV. Nobility aside, the heat that started to rise on the Heather thread got me thinking about the potential damage to a restaurants rep by judging it during DOV.

Vox audita perit, litera scripta manet. The voice fades away, but the written word remains.

With just a few days left, we all recognise that the DOV experience is a mutated species near extinction. Can't we just help it along with a guillotine to the judgement jugular and call it benign euthanasia?

Bring on the spring. I call shotgun on the patio.

Edited February 2, 2005 by editor@waiterblog (log)

[Mooshmouse]

I must say I didn't have great expectations of what I would recieve food wise at the heather. So I wasn't too dissapointed with what I had, but good pub food ain't that hard to do.  Maybe chef coulda spent more time in the kitchen and less running food.

I will return to the heather though, if only for a pint, or 2, or 3, or 4........

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You know.... as I was eating my meal on Sunday, I did think to myself.... self... this is only costing you 15 bucks what do you expect.

Well, flavour for one thing.  I don't necessarily think we should judge the joint on one meal there (wouldn't do it at other times, why during DOV) but I do think that they could have made something a tad tastier in the world of entrees.  Seemed like the chef had an aversion to salt perhaps.

And while it is noble of you to defend the Heather, these DOV threads were set up to discuss the DOV meals we exerpience so that's pretty much what you'd expect don't you think?

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I think most people in this thread would like to think they were offering constructive criticism.

But so much of it ?

←

That's what these threads are for though aren't they? If one person posts some constructive critisism and 5 other people felt the same way are the other 5 supposed to keep their lips zipped? Maybe that would have been better..... I don't know.

←

While hearing negative feedback is never a pleasant experience, it doesn't help to keep quiet about it either.

The whole point of the forum is for people to share their culinary experiences in the city. If your experience didn't live up to your expectations or hype, talk about it, but also keep it in perspective as well.

It sounds like the heather hasn't lived up to their usual level of quality during DOV, which from much of what I've read, heard, and experienced seems to happen to quite a few participants.

The heather has acquired an above average reputation for their food and atmosphere, and I don't think a few off nights during DOV is going to ruin the good will they've accumulated in this town. What's even more useful in the long run than DOV reviews are reviews from diners during your typical week.

DOV doesn't seem to work as well as intended for showcasing restaurants that people haven't had the chance to go to, since it seems many have trouble maintaining the levels of service and quality that they usually do. Putting a restaurant through a two week slam doesn't really give the restaurant or the diner a fair shake in many cases.

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After reading and re-reading this thread as so many of us have, I feel compelled to add my thoughts. Inanimate put it rather eloquently; there is definitely a fine line between constructive and destructive criticism, one which some are walking more effectively than others. Certainly, the purpose of this and all other DOV threads is to recount and evaluate your dining experience at a particular establishment. Good or bad, we each have the opportunity to stand on our little soapboxes for the duration of our post. Then we step off our respective soapboxes and let others have a turn. Yet, as on a schoolyard, the snowball effect has a nasty habit of taking over a thread when comments on mediocre or poor meals start to fly and it's easy to get carried away.

  So why bother to eat out during DOV?  Gaak!

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As "educated" diners, we are fully aware that restauranteurs and their staff, both FOH and BOH, are pushed to the limit for the duration of Dine Out. Yet we choose to participate with that caveat in mind. Is this an excuse for poor food or poor service? Absolutely not. But use this understanding to weigh your DOV experience against one that you could have during the rest of your dining year before posting comments for the rest of the e-universe to read.

We're fortunate enough to have Sean (and many other chefs and restaurant owners) as a fellow eGulleter, doubly fortunate that he cares enough about his profession to give us some insight into his world by starting this thread and respects his clientele enough to receive our feedback. In the interests of fairness and reciprocity, we should be equally respectful. When a meal is dissatisfactory, then post about it. Naturally, there'll be discussion, but if you're still heated, then afford a restauranteur the courtesy of a more detailed PM or e-mail to voice your opinions rather than continuing to kick at the insult can. Any chef and/or owner worth his or her salt will take your concerns to heart. And will survive DOV, a little battered perhaps, but survive nonetheless.

[appreciator]

  So why bother to eat out during DOV?  Gaak!

←

As "educated" diners, we are fully aware that restauranteurs and their staff, both FOH and BOH, are pushed to the limit for the duration of Dine Out. Yet we choose to participate with that caveat in mind. Is this an excuse for poor food or poor service? Absolutely not. But use this understanding to weigh your DOV experience against one that you could have during the rest of your dining year before posting comments for the rest of the e-universe to read.

We're fortunate enough to have Sean (and many other chefs and restaurant owners) as a fellow eGulleter, doubly fortunate that he cares enough about his profession to give us some insight into his world by starting this thread and respects his clientele enough to receive our feedback. In the interests of fairness and reciprocity, we should be equally respectful. When a meal is dissatisfactory, then post about it. Naturally, there'll be discussion, but if you're still heated, then afford a restauranteur the courtesy of a more detailed PM or e-mail to voice your opinions rather than continuing to kick at the insult can. Any chef and/or owner worth his or her salt will take your concerns to heart. And will survive DOV, a little battered perhaps, but survive nonetheless.

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please take the following with a grain of salt ({fleur de sel please}.... this whole thing is making me cranky.....

thanks for your insight (IOW = chastisement - is that a real word, I doubt it {but that's the word that it feels like).... will try to keep that in mind before I post from now on... perhaps, or perhaps not as I'm feeling cranky and I gotta say... your post above has not abated that. No fault to you though... I'm just a cranky gal tonight.... obviously.

btw.... did you eat at the Heather during DOV? Just wondering.

Woooo Sarah.... how to win friends and influence people.... you're doing well NOT!

Edited February 2, 2005 by appreciator (log)

[edm]

Hear Hear.

I feel for the guys in the kitchen who have been putting out the same apps, the same mains, and the same desserts over and over ad nauseum. It's so far removed from their mandate of creativity that's it's totally unfair to toss around our opinions.

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dont you think that if a restaurant is part of dine-out, they should think very well of the menu they put up, in order to make it practical and constant in terms of quality? Come on, most places dont even change their menus that regularly anyways. So what's 2 weeks doing the same 3 or 4 dishes?

My point is that if you decide to be part of such an event, you have got to do your best to be up to expectations, your customers' obviously, but yours in the first place.

Some restaurants in this city should maybe stop having their guests into believing they're doing THEM a favour. It's the wrong approach, far removed from what our profession is all about.

I've seen DOV menus offering caesar salads, endive and blue cheese salads, frozen salmon, frozen elk, vacuum-packed, pre-portionned food of all sorts, branding themselves as seasonal and regional temples of gastronomy.

Having professionals on this forum is great, maybe we can actually share some of the dirty secrets of our reality, instead of being an internet version of the glamourous food network Canada... clean, good looking, sanitized.

Meanwhile, have a look at this:

http://www.montrealenlumiere.com/english/table/guests.php

Edited February 2, 2005 by edm (log)

[Keith Talent]

...a big fan of both the Guiness and Ribena...

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I have never been to the Irish Heather, nor have been following this thread, so I have no vested interest one way or another, but please, please tell me the above is a typo.

Ribenna? In Guinness?

I thought it was disgusting when my wifes Scottish cousins ordered us a round of Lager and Lime to help sober up (???) last time we were in Glasgow, but Ribenna/Guinness? That seems like a mortal sin against a gift from God.

And I don't want to hear that it tastes better than it sounds, Guinness is perfect just the way it is. Maybe throw the odd black and tan into the mix, perhaps a Black Velvet in the middle of March, hell the next thing you know they'll be selling the stuff in bottles.

That's very very wrong.

[peppyre]

...a big fan of both the Guiness and Ribena...

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I thought it was disgusting when my wifes Scottish cousins ordered us a round of Lager and Lime to help sober up (???) last time we were in Glasgow, but Ribenna/Guinness? That seems like a mortal sin against a gift from God.

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I'm sorry, but that just had me spitting coffee.

As a woman of Scottish heritage, my grandmother used to make me a shandy when I had an upset stomach as a child. Very common remedy for all things that ail you, including being too pissed to stand

[Mooshmouse]

btw.... did you eat at the Heather during DOV?  Just wondering.

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No. Nor did I have DOV meals at Le Gavroche or C Restaurant, yet I did post on these respective threads to cite my reasons for omitting two good restaurants from my regular dining rotation.

Everyone has different palates and different opinions. That's the beauty of this forum: with such a diverse group of local members, we get a broad cross-section of tastes and experiences. Negative feedback is a good thing... what doesn't kill us makes us stronger, yes? But, in order to maintain the respect that we've developed as a group in our local corner of eGullet, it's important to be thoughtful and well-founded when articulating our dissatisfaction. Dining plebs like me should feel lucky to have so many industry folk as an audience and even willing participants in our idiosyncratic food discussions. Luckier still that our feedback is used as a forum for change instead of falling on deaf ears.

[Keith Talent]

Last time we were in Scotland, not only did I learn that Lager and Lime is disgusting (which to be honest I could have probably deduced without the emperical eveidence), I also learned that you don't try to explain the fallacy of the logic of having another drink to sober up to a Scot that's a half dozen rounds into the evening. Again, I could have probably concluded that without putting the theroy to the test, then again I was probably a half dozen pints in, and the logic would have escaped me at the time.

[nwyles]

Lots of good discussion here. This has really become the Time Vampire.

This will be my last post on this topic as it taken up too much time already.

I am glad that everyone has been out and had a good time during Dine Out. That is what it is there for. Good to see lots of posts, sharing experiences, good, bad, and indifferent. I hope everybody realizes that DOV is not a true representation of a restaurants ability. In a perfect world it would be, but as you have had so many glimpses into the inner workings of it, you know it is not true. It has become the never ending Boxing Day sale. In the end, everyone walks away with what they want.

As for the Heather, great to see that everyone went out and supported Sean during the Dine Out. I feel no need to defend him as he is a big man and can certainly do that one his own. And he certainly does not want, or asked, for the likes of me spouting off for him. But as a quick addition, hats off to the guy who opened three places in Canada's worst neighbourhood and has been active in trying to rebuild it and the reputation the Downtown Eastside has. You are a better man than I.

What we have seen on this thread is something I call " feeding frenzy" - it is when one person at a table of ten says " my vegetables are cold" and everybody else jumps in and echoes the same, send ten dinners back to the kitchen to be replated. A couple of drops of blood in the water and look what happens ! When I clicked on this morning, there were 36 people online. Holy crap ! All at once !

And this thread looks like it has about 1800 visits.

One thing of note. There is one among us who has not posted about Dine Out. Mr. Maw, the true professional food critic, has left this alone other than to give some guidelines and wish us well. I wonder why ? Perhaps he knows that DOV is not a true representation of a restaurants abilities and that the sting of the written word lingers a little long. I don't know, but that is what comes to mind. I would love to get his insight over a green bottled beer when this madness is all over !

Ok, I have to get back to work now. I do not have the luxury of having extra staff on today so I can indulge myself on egullet.

[canucklehead]

I just want to say what a great and intense thread this was. I am really - and I am not being sarcastic here - proud that you guys are so willing to really get out there and express your opinions. This kind of interchange keeps the discussion healthy and keeps the Vancouver forum from turning into a chatroom.

Have you ever seen a documentary where a troop of chimpanzees get all whipped up and then in the aftermath there is grooming to get the troop calmed down and back together. Well - I am grooming - frantically.

Now - please don't get upset with me for comparing Egulleteers with chimps. I know that it is not fair to the chimps.

[Edible Vancouver]

I have just returned from an evening of gracious hospitality at the Irish Heather. Sean went above and beyond and everyone in my party was most impressed with the evening.

The soup and smoked white salmon on the first course were fantastic (Sean prepared a smoked white salmon for me to cater to my allergies). The smoked tomato soup was rich, dark and nicely flavored and the smoked white salmon was simply perfect! It’s nice to find a place that can dress a salad properly. The salmon pasta was a little disappointing in both flavor and texture, but the member of my group who ordered that was more than happy to help me with the smoked salmon on my plate!

The ribs and polenta were a hit as well, although more so the polenta. I finally now have an idea of why people were making the comments they did about the ribs. I think when everyone reads the menu they are thinking of ribs that are sticky and glistening with a dark beer sauce that has been reduced to a thicker consistency, and not a broth. However, the broth and the ribs were both flavorful and tender, just not what we were expecting based on the menu description. The vegetables were perfectly cooked and seasoned as well. Overall, a very nice “Irish style” dish!

While the first and second courses were good, the highlight of the meal had to be the desserts. The sugar nut pie, the chocolate pot and the tarte tatin with the cinnamon ice cream were all very good – although the sugar nut pie was declared the favorite. Great coconut ice as well!

Overall the food was very good and for $15 it was an incredible value. I look forward to going again to try the regular menu.

Thanks for a great evening Sean!

Cheers,

Eric