Bis Moreno

Andrew Morrison · February 13, 2005

They did it because they wanted to introduce the restaurant to a new batch of customers by offering them a "sample" of what they did but realized that people were expecting the same thing they normally served at a 1/3 of the price. She said the customers that came in didn't seem to care, or even know for the most part, that they were being served products that were 10 times the price of similar products available, that the labour in the kitchen was just as high as everything was still made from scratch and that her husband was unhappy that they had taken so many reservations. It wasn't that they were greedy she said, it was just that so many people wanted to dine there and didn't want to say no. I think they are rethinking whether or not they will do it again as they felt they weren't offering the experience and food that they were known for.

I sure as hell can understand that.

Somebody whose eloquence eclipses mine should tackle the catch-22's facing those restaurants who participate in DOV and share them (in the DOV thread).

Sam Salmon · February 13, 2005

the poster who seemed to start the negative discussion, actually lives in the same building as the restaurant so saying she was home by 8:30 was very unfair (and just a bit unethical) as she never mentioned she was only a elevator ride away. I must say she gave them the impression she was rushed right out by saying that, when in fact she probably wasn't.
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In Ling's defence-everybody has to live somewhere :rolleyes:

appreciator · February 13, 2005

We have been in enough to consider ourselves regulars and chatted with the owner's wife about the stuff that was written about them on e-gullet. She was aware of the comments and had some very interesting observations...on a positive note, she said it was interesting to read the site as she felt it was a bit of a barometer of how the general public felt about the local dining scene but thought it had gotten a wee bit out of hand with everyone thinking they were now restaurant reviewers thanks to the power a certain local food writer in town bestowed upon them in a recent article. She was less then impressed about all the comments on Dineout, (various restaurants) feeling that peoples expectations were way to high. She commented that they may have made a mistake in going in to Dineout as they just couldn't serve customers the same quality of food and offer the same quality of dining without actually losing money each night for 35.00. They did it because they wanted to introduce the restaurant to a new batch of customers by offering them a "sample" of what they did but realized that people were expecting the same thing they normally served at a 1/3 of the price.
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High expectations during dine-out.... now.... why would that be I wonder? :hmmm:

It seems that a number of us "would be restaurant reviewers" seem to have decided to step down from our elevated positions and take a pause in the commentary on our food experiences of late....

As to Bis Moreno ... I've never been.... haven't necessarily been drawn to go, but, I might. From what I gather, some people like it, some don't... only way you're going to know for sure is if you try it yourself. If you don't like it, you won't go back... if you do.... you will. One might assume however, that the point (for the restaurant) of participating in an event like Dine Out is to get you (the customer) to come back :smile:

*Deborah* · February 13, 2005

Just got back from my DOV at Bis Moreno--we had reservations at 7pm and got home before 8:30pm.
This is what I chose:
house-made spinach and tomato ravioli with porcini and tomato sauce
pork cheeks with candied root vegetables
gingerbread with roast apples, chantilly cream
This is what my bf had:
cannelli bean soup with scrampi crostini
roast quail with parmasan rissotto
gingerbread with roast apples, chantilly cream
We both had the Quail's Gate 2002 Riesling and the Township 7 Merlot (suggested wine pairings for the appetizers and mains.)
The best dish of the evening was definitely the ravioli, and the quail and rissotto was also quite good. Although the pork cheeks were tender, they weren't very flavourful. I was quite disappointed by the gingerbread--it was quite dry, and rather bland. (In other words, it's got nothing on Neil's gingerbread pudding!) It would have been much better if they upped the spices in the recipe, and perhaps the butter too, imo. The roast apple puree didn't do much for the dish, as it was more of a garnish on the plate.
What really soured my evening was the service--my glass was dirty, and no one asked us if we wanted any more wine until we were almost finished with our main course. It was kind of disheartening when the table next to us seemed to get much better service--the server talked to them about the wine, showed them the bottle, refilled their bread without their asking, etc.--basically all the things that makes for a good experience. I felt that our dinner was hurried, because our plates were whisked away the moment we were done, and our next course set before us. The server did not ask us how we found our food, etc. I didn't order coffee after dessert because by that point, we both wanted to get out of there.
Anyway, enough complaining. I didn't think Bis Moreno was a very good value, and I most likely won't be dining there again.
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...
Anyway, I ramble. The real reason I posted was because she said something that rather annoyed me and that was that the poster who seemed to start the negative discussion, actually lives in the same building as the restaurant so saying she was home by 8:30 was very unfair (and just a bit unethical) as she never mentioned she was only a elevator ride away. I must say she gave them the impression she was rushed right out by saying that, when in fact she probably wasn't. Mrs. Moreno said that the poster in question had never been in for their regular service and also added that another poster who complained about the food being tasteless was suffering from a severe enough cold that she and the staff actually commented when they first sat that it must be waste to go out when you are both so sick and unable to taste anything. She actually said she wished they had told them she would honour the Dineout reservation another time and sent them home with some chicken soup!
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I probably shouldn't be jumping in here, but I am less than impressed by the way you say that Lorna is very unfair, unethical, and a liar.

I can understand that the restaurant owner's wife may have been a bit choked (although she might not necessarily have wanted you to share that with us and the internet), but I would think that the thread on Le Gavroche (which has discussion among something like a dozen people who have had the gamut from great service to bad service at a very respected establishment) should prove that *any* restaurant is capable of leaving a customer feeling rushed or disappointed. From your comments, the service might have been better if she were a "regular" customer.

Funny to me, as I went to three new-to-me restaurants (one at each price point) during Dine-Out (not including West, which I will not use as a comparison point since they knew we were coming), and had very good service at two out of three, and adequate service at the third. At one, I marveled that they were able to turn us over (a party of seven) in an hour and a half *without* us feeling rushed. That kind of respect for the diner, and the lack of an "oh, they're just DOV people, they're not regulars" attitude, is what encourages me to go back to all three.

If I had gone through a meal without a server or someone checking whether everything was OK with my plate, I wouldn't be in any hurry to return, either. And anyone who doesn't try to offer *me* more wine when my glass is empty is just saying no to a sale, that's for sure :raz:

Just my opinion :smile:

Edited February 13, 2005 by *Deborah* (log)

HKDave · February 13, 2005

High expectations during dine-out.... now.... why would that be I wonder?
.....
One might assume however, that the point (for the restaurant) of participating in an event like Dine Out is to get you (the customer) to come back
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Bingo.

Some restaurants maintained their standards and used DOV to showcase what they can do to an audience of potential new customers (and, yes, a few tap-water-sipping bridge and tunnellers that probably won't come back until next DOV).

Others used the combination of their good names and DOV pricing to cram as many bums into the seats as they could, and cut food costs and service standards to maintain their margins.

Said it before: I'll be going back to the former, not to the latter. I think this is the catch-22 Andrew is talking about: a resto can successfully use DOV for promotion, or for short-term profit, but it's not easy for a restaurant to use DOV for both. Do you want to cater to the foodies, or try to make money off the water-sippers?

Andrew Morrison · February 13, 2005

Do you want to cater to the foodies, or try to make money off the water-sippers?

It has been proven by a handful of restaurants that achieving both is possible. :wub:

Note to management and ownership: this is your job.

If you can't do both, why even bother? :huh:

Ling · February 13, 2005

I think my original review was unclear on the lack of wine thing. The waiter didn't even ask me if I wanted any wine with my main course. We managed to flag a server down towards the end of our main, but it would have been nice if he asked us if we wanted any in the first place. (I really wanted to try the Township 7 Merlot.) :smile:

FannyBay · February 14, 2005

The real reason I posted was because she said something that rather annoyed me and that was that the poster who seemed to start the negative discussion, actually lives in the same building as the restaurant so saying she was home by 8:30 was very unfair (and just a bit unethical) as she never mentioned she was only a elevator ride away. I must say she gave them the impression she was rushed right out by saying that, when in fact she probably wasn't. Mrs. Moreno said that the poster in question had never been in for their regular service and also added that another poster who complained about the food being tasteless was suffering from a severe enough cold that she and the staff actually commented when they first sat that it must be waste to go out when you are both so sick and unable to taste anything. She actually said she wished they had told them she would honour the Dineout reservation another time and sent them home with some chicken soup!
I think Mrs. Moreno should speak for herself. As of now, this is all hearsay.
That is the beauty of eGullet ... it gives the restaurants a chance to answer comments made by their customers. If they think customers aren't already saying things about them, good or bad, they're dillusional. The difference with eGullet is that there is a much wider audience ... and the audience can talk back.
FannyBay, what about the comment annoyed you? That Mrs. Moreno made it, or the subject of her comments (i.e. Ling). I wasn't quite clear on that.
A.
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I do agree that it was somewhat presumptuous of me to share Mrs. Moreno's comments. Now that I think about it she may not have wanted me to and I might be sharing an opinion she didn't really want to share with all of you!? But as I brought it up, and she, having heard about the comments from one of her staff, took the time to read it and share a few opinions with me, I thought you all might want to get feedback on your performance.

As for "what about the comment annoyed me" question from A. - I was annoyed that Ling didn't share the fact that she was home so early because she lived just an elevator ride away. I never said she was lying, I just felt that the omission possibly created an incorrect perception of time lines. Gee wiz, what would you think if I said, "service was a bit slow, I got there at 7:00 pm and didn't get home until midnight" but it turned out I lived in Hope, BC!

Now however I'm annoyed that Ling assumes that this forum is so cliquey that everyone knows each other's business, including who they are and where they live and we all should have known she lives in that building. I have been reading the site for well over a year, may even 2 years, joined the site about 5 months ago but up until this week have been a very casual observer (thanks to new high speed internet at home I have been able to jump on and have a look more often then before) I certainly never knew she lived in the building…

PS - Question about e-gullet etiquette? Am I supposed to sign each letter or reply or does the site automatically show who it's from, making that unnecessary?

Ling · February 14, 2005

^In my response, I said that I had unfairly assumed that most of the readers knew that I lived in the building. I've already admitted that I should have mentioned in my review that I lived in the building.

Daddy-A · February 14, 2005

I thought you all might want to get feedback on your performance.

There seems to be a lot of that going on around here. Diners giving their opinions ... owner's giving theirs. The freedom of expression aforded us by eGullet is something both sides are going to have to get used to. :unsure:

As for "what about the comment annoyed me" question from A. - I was annoyed that Ling didn't share the fact that she was home so early because she lived just an elevator ride away. I never said she was lying, I just felt that the omission possibly created an incorrect perception of time lines. Gee wiz, what would you think if I said, "service was a bit slow, I got there at 7:00 pm and didn't get home until midnight" but it turned out I lived in Hope, BC!

For the record, Ling never made the connection between being home at 8:30 and feeling rushed ... you did FannyBay. Ling's remarks about when she arrived and when she left were at the beginning of the post. It wasn't until the end that she said ...

I felt that our dinner was hurried, because our plates were whisked away the moment we were done, and our next course set before us.

... which IMO indicates that her feeling of being "rushed" had nothing to do with the amount of time they spent in the restaurant, but how they were treated.

Now can we get back to discussing the food please?

A.

ps. If you'd like to have your initials, name etc at the end of each post, click on the Options link and the top of the page, and then click the Edit Signature link on the left of the page. Enter your signature there, and voila, that's what will appear after every post. PM me if you need more help.

Jeffy Boy · February 14, 2005

Gee wiz, what would you think if I said, "service was a bit slow, I got there at 7:00 pm and didn't get home until midnight" but it turned out I lived in Hope, BC!

I'd be willing bet $500 that nobody from Hope has ever eaten at Bis Moreno. I suggest using Whistler in future metaphors. :smile:

HKDave · February 14, 2005

Gee wiz, what would you think if I said, "service was a bit slow, I got there at 7:00 pm and didn't get home until midnight" but it turned out I lived in Hope, BC!
I'd be willing bet $500 that nobody from Hope has ever eaten at Bis Moreno. I suggest using Whistler in future metaphors.
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Careful... I took my gf from Hope there when it was Etoile... is that worth $250? :smile:

Jeffy Boy · February 14, 2005

Gee wiz, what would you think if I said, "service was a bit slow, I got there at 7:00 pm and didn't get home until midnight" but it turned out I lived in Hope, BC!
I'd be willing bet $500 that nobody from Hope has ever eaten at Bis Moreno. I suggest using Whistler in future metaphors.
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Careful... I took my gf from Hope there when it was Etoile... is that worth $250?
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Hey, that's pretty close! 'Course I'd want to go double or nothing on whether you actually went back to Hope afterwards! :wink:

canucklehead · February 14, 2005

I've been PM'ing some other members on this - but I will go public.

I think that it is vital that we share opinions - good and bad. The opinions on this site seem well informed and balanced. No gushing for the sake of gushing - and no needless cruetly or mean spirited barbs. The thoughts shared here would be the same as those shared over coffee with my friends.

Do the opinions impact my decisions to go somewhere? To be honest, they are a data point but the egullet forum does NOT make my dining decisions for me. Egullet has introduced me to alot of new experiences - some of which I will repeat, others that I will not. There are a slew of places that egullet does not seem discuss - but are my personal favorites. I think that I have a fairly good sense of food - as do all of the egulleteers here. And I ultimately make my own dining decisions.

As for Bis Mereno - I am really looking forward to trying it out. I have friends who have gone and have really enjoyed it and we are making plans for the pasta tasting menu. I will let you all know whether I liked it or not.

I don't think that anybody here pretends to be a food critic - and those with those kind of pretenses are called on pretty quickly by other egulleteers.

What has prompted me to post this is how personal some of this shit has gotten. I mean come on! To be honest - the highly negative and personal reactions do nothing but give the orginal postings even more power than the orginal poster ever ever intended.

Let's share opinions and be tough on eachother and call bullshit when warranted. But I agree - let's keep it about the food.

DameD · February 14, 2005

HEAR HEAR!!!! I am with you on this one Canucklehead.

Daddy-A · February 14, 2005

And again I need to insist we keep the discussion on topic. Let's talk about Bis Moreno and the dining experiences had there during DOV. If we can't even remotely keep this on topic, the thread will have to be shut down.

A.

Vancouver Lee · March 22, 2005

I know this is a DOV thread, but I wanted to add a post-script to my earlier comments about my disappointing meal at Bis Moreno during Dine Out.

I had the pleasure of enjoying a private chef's tasting dinner tonight that was truly excellent in every way. Service, food, wine, value - it was all truly stupendous. It would seem that Bis Moreno was having a bad night when we were there, as they proved tonight that they are first class establishment. Moreno's cooking is tremendous and the staff are excellent. Well done, guys, and thank you for a truly memorable night. To my fellow eGulleters, don't hesitate to give Bis Moreno another try - the DOV experience would seem to be an aberration.

Dining Diva · March 22, 2005

Interesting reading here. I've just recently joined and have to add my two-cents!

I had the same thing as Ling and I have to say I wasn't very impressed by my meal. Neither were 2 of the 3 friends that were with me. The ravioli unfortunately was very mushy and tasted like it came out of a can. The pork cheeks were ok but just ok.... a little too salty for my taste actually. I found the dessert a little dry too. To be honest, I had expected quite a bit more from Bis. I had heard really good things about it but based on my experience there wouldn't go back. I also wasn't asked by my waiter how the meal was.. wonder why lol...

Edited March 22, 2005 by Dining Diva (log)

Edible Vancouver · March 22, 2005

Interesting reading here. I've just recently joined and have to add my two-cents!
I had the same thing as Ling and I have to say I wasn't very impressed by my meal. Neither were 2 of the 3 friends that were with me. The ravioli unfortunately was very mushy and tasted like it came out of a can. The pork cheeks were ok but just ok.... a little too salty for my taste actually. I found the dessert a little dry too. To be honest, I had expected quite a bit more from Bis. I had heard really good things about it but based on my experience there wouldn't go back. I also wasn't asked by my waiter how the meal was.. wonder why lol...
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I have to say that I also dined at Bis on the first night of DOV and after that experience I swore I would never go again. However, I had the opportunity to dine there again last night and the experience was a polar opposite to what I experienced the first time. The food, wine and service were all top notch and Moreno is a warm and welcoming host.

I also had the pleasure of having dinner with Moreno and his wife at a Chinese New Years event and we discussed the challenges of DOV, especially the first night. All I can say is that they apologized for the evening and assured me that is not normal and that they will not be participating in DOV again next year.

Cheers,

Eric

eatrustic · March 23, 2005

It's nice to hear that there has been a turn around, not only from the customer's point of view as well as the return to quality service.

I wonder how many of the better tables that participated in DOV will opt out like Bis or turn the event into a just above breakeven (lower headcount) PR exercise to develop a new clientele for the rest of the year.

What I'm really waiting for, though, is the on camera reunion betwee Ling and the owners of Bis Moreno as they tearfully bury the hatchet!

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