the French Women's Diet: newest diet craze?

[easternsun]

when i was living in paris i ate very well. i really did not watch what i ate at all. i think the key is the variety in the diet. i know that i ate a lot more chocolate, cheese and bread and drank a lot more wine. whatever it was, i loved the food and did really enjoy my meals. a lot of meals were great feasts with friends, new and old. there was always lots of conversation with each course. so we did end up savouring the food and eating slower. even breakfast (espresso and chocolate croissant) in a cafe could last for a couple hours.

at the end of the day, all diets are bogus. changing the way you eat for life is what counts. if eating a variety of delicious foods is "the french ladies diet" then many of us are already there. if you scarf back nothing but cheesy poofs, "drive thru" and dont breathe between bites - then maybe this book couldnt hurt.

[Aileen]

When I first heard about this book I laughed, because it's presented as the "French women's secret". I eat this way, because I love food! I would rather go hungry than eat something I find unappealing, and I eat whatever I like - including lots of carbs and cheese, enjoy it, and stop when I'm full. I maintain a healthy weight easily. I have never been overweight, though, and I'm sure that there are people who can't maintain their weight this way. Look at Oprah, her metabolism is so slow that she has to live off of very little in order to maintain, and must exercise every day. I also work with a woman who's metabolism is very slow. She is normal weight, but works out every day for at least an hour (running, swimming, biking), eats nothing for lunch (I have never seen her eat in over three years working with her), and eats mostly vegetables for dinner (she's a vegetarian). Her total caloric intake is around 800-900 calories a day, she's 5'6" and is NOT underweight. If I ate that little per day, I would continuously lose weight (I am the same height). Everyone wants a simple solution for obesity, but I don't think there is truly a one-size-fits-all solution.

[Ling]

^That's pretty depressing.

[srhcb]

I never cease to be amazed by how many lean, trim people there are now as a result of all these new diets!

[Ling]

I also work with a woman who's metabolism is very slow.  She is normal weight, but works out every day for at least an hour (running, swimming, biking), eats nothing for lunch (I have never seen her eat in over three years working with her), and eats mostly vegetables for dinner (she's a vegetarian).  Her total caloric intake is around 800-900 calories a day, she's 5'6" and is NOT underweight. 

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I was thinking about this today and I was wondering if she had a thyroid problem. I used to work with a girl who had a thyroid problem, and all she ever had for lunch was a banana, yet she was overweight.

Also, perhaps her body is starving for calories, and is hanging onto her measly 800-900 calories a day.

[simdelish]

The way they put it is they can look good on the beach or have dessert.  They prefer to look good on the beach.

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Well, I guess that's my problem...

[Aileen]

I was thinking about this today and I was wondering if she had a thyroid problem. I used to work with a girl who had a thyroid problem, and all she ever had for lunch was a banana, yet she was overweight.

Also, perhaps her body is starving for calories, and is hanging onto her measly 800-900 calories a day. 

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Yes, it is sad. She's been this way since she was a teen, and her thyroid has been checked repeatedly. Basically I think your second thought is the correct one: her body hangs onto every calorie it can get because it's so used to being starved. I can't imagine having to live like that!

[therese]

The issue of "looking good on the beach" raises questions about differences in French and U.S. attitudes that the author may or may not address (I've not read the book, so if anybody here has I'd love to know whether she does).

I'm a middle-aged American female. I've been generally thin my entire life except for the usual hormone-driven weight changes associated with child-bearing (two kids), and have always eaten a generally balanced diet without thinking too much about it. Whenever "ma ligne" looked a bit lumpy, or a skirt didn't hang quite as straight I adjusted my intake a bit and things returned quickly to baseline.

Now that I've over forty it takes less indulgence to nudge "ma ligne" out of whack and most recently a bit closer monitoring of intake (I'm using WW to do this, but it's not really been a change in the way I eat) to get it back on track.

So here's problem: now that I've gotten things whipped into shape, am I in a position to "look good on the beach"? By which I mean do I have permission, as a married American female, over the age of 40, mother of teenagers, to wear a bikini at the beach? I'm thin, I'm fit, I have no scars and minimal stretch marks or varicose veins. Is it okay for me to wear a bikini? Or even a non-matronly maillot?

Because it is okay (based on my experience, your mileage may vary) for French women my age to wear bikinis. It's okay for them to see themselves as attractive, and to present themselves to others as attractive, whether it's at the beach or out for dinner or at the office.

This is not the case in the U.S. (again, your mileage may vary). Societal pressure keeps us out of bikinis and fitted dresses and night clubs, so there's very little incentive to forego dessert.

[cigalechanta]

I wore a bikini til I was fifty :) Looked good back then.

[therese]

I wore a bikini til I was fifty :) Looked good back then.

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Strong work, cigalechanta. Did you experience any negative reaction to doing so? Was this the norm among your contemporaries/social group? Was this in the U.S. or France or both (or elsewhere)? And what decade are we talking about?

[srhcb]

Because it is okay (based on my experience, your mileage may vary) for French women my age to wear bikinis. It's okay for them to see themselves as attractive, and to present themselves to others as attractive, whether it's at the beach or out for dinner or at the office.

This is not the case in the U.S. (again, your mileage may vary). Societal pressure keeps us out of bikinis and fitted dresses and night clubs, so there's very little incentive to forego dessert.

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It's fine by me.

SB ("mature" U.S. male)

[therese]

It's fine by me.

SB ("mature" U.S. male)

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Heh heh. Your profile says you're from northern Minnesota. Does it count if one's wearing a bikini with long underwear?

But back to my original point: do U.S. attitudes towards aging and sexuality actually discourage us from exercising restraint when it comes to food?

There are clearly lots of other factors at play, but I do think that this is one that's overlooked.

[Tess]

Heh heh. Your profile says you're from northern Minnesota. Does it count if one's wearing a bikini with long underwear?

But back to my original point: do U.S. attitudes towards aging and sexuality actually discourage us from exercising restraint when it comes to food?

There are clearly lots of other factors at play, but I do think that this is one that's overlooked.

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Hmm. We see age as the enemy of sexuality, but we also see overweight as being un-sexual. So you think maybe people think after a certain age, why bother keeping thin? It's paradoxical, though, because a lot of the older women I know are super-skinny. I suspect that's the healthiest way to be after a certain age, unless you achieve it by living on cigarettes and booze, like a lot of the ladies in my family. I'm aiming to be a tough, skinny old lady myself (sans tobacco if not booze), for the sake of my joints and my mobility. But I don't think that's sexy, and I don't think most people do. Even when you're young, you're supposed to be thin but voluptuous to look good in a bathing suit. You can't be fat, but you can't be flat either.

Just to bring this back on the subject of that diet, it did ring a bell for me when I read about it, because I also had the experience of moving from the US to Europe (in my case, Italy) and feeling like I was eating more but losing weight. I walked a lot over there, but it wasn't like I was a sloth back in the US. I ate a lot more carbohydrates there, bread and pasta, and less meat. I drank more alcohol too. I sometimes think I lose weight when shifting a different cuisine and/or lifestyle just because it makes my choices a little more conscious, gives me a little shock to my system, and gets me out of my rut. I also lost weight in Greece, living mainly on beer, cheese and fried things.

[srhcb]

It's fine by me.

SB ("mature" U.S. male)

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Heh heh. Your profile says you're from northern Minnesota. Does it count if one's wearing a bikini with long underwear?

But back to my original point: do U.S. attitudes towards aging and sexuality actually discourage us from exercising restraint when it comes to food?

There are clearly lots of other factors at play, but I do think that this is one that's overlooked.

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As the Baby Boom generation grows older, aging and sexuality have already ceased being mutually exclusive topics. Watch tv commercials, (not only the "enhancement ones"), and you'll notice the age and lifestyles being portrayed are indicative a much broader acceptance of the subject.

There is, in fact, an entire category of internet pornography known as "mature", which features women in their 30's, 40's and 50's who are in very attractive while obviously no longer young. (How would I know that? I did some research for a screenplay proposal. Grueling work indeed!)

I expect this trend to continue, espcially because this age group has the money to spend, and social mores follow marketing which follows the money.

PS: It would be a faux pas to wear a bikini and long underwear, but underneath a snowmoblie suit it could prove alluring.

SB (now don't ask how I know that!)

[therese]

Hmm. We see age as the enemy of sexuality, but we also see overweight as being un-sexual. So you think maybe people think after a certain age, why bother keeping thin? It's paradoxical, though, because a lot of the older women I know are super-skinny. I suspect that's the healthiest way to be after a certain age, unless you achieve it by living on cigarettes and booze, like a lot of the ladies in my family. I'm aiming to be a tough, skinny old lady myself (sans tobacco if not booze), for the sake of my joints and my mobility.  But I don't think that's sexy, and I don't think most people do. Even when you're young, you're supposed to be thin but voluptuous to look good in a bathing suit. You can't be fat, but you can't be flat either.

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That sort of skinny dried out look is actually a very classic look for French women, and it is considered attractive by many (themselves and their partners both). There's a difference between a thin woman who acts and dresses as if she's attractive and a thin woman who acts and dresses like she's a tough, skinny old lady.

That we don't really see the skinny dried out look as even possibly attractive reflects our ideas of beauty and attractiveness, and how closely they are tied to youth.

The exceptions (SB's special category of "mature" women who are, gosh, in their 30's, songs like "Stacy's Mom" (not sure if that's the title), a local nightly radio call-in called "Hot Moms" ) only serve to illustrate the rule.

[edited to point out that I think that aspiring to be a tough, skinny old lady is fine, and that I don't consider it SB's fault that the category of "mature" now includes women who aren't actually very old, they're just not very young]

Edited February 9, 2005 by therese (log)

[cigalechanta]

Not the norm, I have always looked younger, I'm 71 and people guess me as 50

[Ling]

I don't think older women should feel like they need to cover themselves too much. (Of course, there's a line between sexy and vulgar, but it exists for all age groups.) I wouldn't be bothered by seeing an older woman in a bikini. Halle Berry is 16 years older than me (she's 38) and I can only wish I look as good as she does in a bikini!

[therese]

Not the norm, I have always looked younger, I'm 71 and people guess me as 50

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Any pushback from friends or neighbors at the time? Even very subtle sort of stuff?

[therese]

Anyway, before things get too very weird here, I'm going to go back to the original idea that French women don't get fat. And they don't get fat (I think) in large part because they don't want to get fat: their society rewards them for staying thin (they're not just considered more attractive, but more "in control"), and penalizes them when they do.

It is, admittedly, much easier to stay thin in places where people live close together and one can easily walk and use public transit and so forth. Tess's experience losing weight when she visits Europe is similar to mine, but I experience the same effect whenever I travel (generally for work, though not always) as I don't have a car and so rely on walking and public transit whether it's in the U.S. or abroad.

I'll also point out that French women who do live outside of urban areas and can now afford cars are getting fat. And their daughters are getting even fatter.

[NulloModo]

But back to my original point: do U.S. attitudes towards aging and sexuality actually discourage us from exercising restraint when it comes to food?

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I think that is a very good question, and it brings up that people have a variety of reasons for wanting to lose weight. Some choose health benefits, some social, some work/job related (which may be a blend of the previous two).

For me personal appearance and the social aspects were my huge reasons. The health concerns of being obese were honestly not in my mind at all, I was just tired of being the object of public derision and of being ignored by all women in which I had even a passing interest.

Once the weight started to come off the health benefits become more clear, and honestly, feeling as good as I do now, I had no idea how bad I felt before, and it is even more reason to keep the weight off, and will continue to be a reason as I age and the issues of sexuality become less salient.

[therese]

...as I age and the issues of sexuality become less salient.

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Um, like when you are dead?

From an eGullet perspective, this is like saying that there comes a point in life where we're no longer interested in food.

Well, yes, that day will likely come, but I will probably not recognize it, as I'll be in a coma.

For me personal appearance and the social aspects were my huge reasons. The health concerns of being obese were honestly not in my mind at all, I was just tired of being the object of public derision and of being ignored by all women in which I had even a passing interest...Once the weight started to come off the health benefits become more clear, and honestly, feeling as good as I do now, I had no idea how bad I felt before...

Being a hottie makes you want to live forever, doesn't it?

Wanting a better life is a powerful motivator. In NulloModo's case it seemed (and was) accessible, but for many people in the U.S. it's not.

[touaregsand]

http://slate.msn.com/id/2113911/

More about the French Woman's secret.

[FaustianBargain]

http://slate.msn.com/id/2113911/

More about the French Woman's secret. 

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No way!!!

[cigalechanta]

French women are much smaller boned than we Americans so weight would show up more on them. I'm short but have large hands and feet . and am short WAAAAAAAA! Most of my friends are younger, not by choice but by interests and also being childless. Food is a big conncern for me, to eat foods in season, and not drown in sauces so that you know you are eating a good piece of fish or meat.

Food should taste like it is IMHO.

[touaregsand]

cigalechanta-

Glad you brought up the differences in body type. I read somewhere that 3 out 5 Caucasian Americans can trace their roots back to Germany or the UK. Clearly bigger boned folks than the French. Of course there is Alsace, I'm talking broadly here. I don't really buy the genetic argument when it comes to morbid obesity, but I can't mount a vigorous argument against body types. I'm Korean, turning 36 this year, two kids, I'm 5'4" and weigh 120 pounds. Not exactly skinny, good dose of well earned womanly curves in the right places. A scientist friend of mine told me that Northeast Asians actually burn calories faster than people of the Sun. Something to do with the severe cold weather and the need to keep warm.

My considerable experience with the French and food tells me that French women EAT. They enjoy food. Korean women, the same thing. We most definately do not push our food around on the plate. It's going into our mouths. I just don't see French and Korean women obsessing about food. A night of gluttony doesn't translate into being "bad" or "sinful". I think of French women in a sense as being the most "oriental" or "Asian" of European women. Slighter frames and more delicate bone structure, a subtle elegance of movement and gait.

In one of the post there was talk of bitchery among women. True enough, sadly so. The funniest thing I've been asked is if I get acupuncture or acupressure treatments to keep my figure.