"Tried and true" restaurants

[Pan]

Understood, Steven, but based on the New York Pizza Survey's experience, Lombardi's doesn't belong on any kind of "tried and true" list, in any case.

[Liz B-F]

Florent would be on my "tried and true" list--always good breakfast or burgers, 24 hours, and it always had a better scene and atmosphere than the trendy, tacky velvet-rope places around the "new" neighborhood. The people-watching always brings surprises, but the junk food is reliable.

Definitely Katz's. The hot pastrami is always exactly as good as I remembered, or ineffably, inexplicably better. (Inexplicably, because how could anything on this earth be as goddamn yummy as a Katz's hot pastrami sandwich on rye with Gulden's mustard and a can of cream soda tastes in my imagination? But the real thing is almost too good to imagine.)

A few of those old New York coffee shops--La Lanterna, Caffe Reggio--I always leave happier.

Lombardi's would've been on my list for most of the time I've lived in NYC, but lately something's been wrong...sometimes the pizza is as delicious as always, and other times it's uneven and strange and different, which frankly breaks my heart.

'Ino probably isn't old enough to be "tried and true", but I've come to rely on it for delicious, affordable food each time.

And my top pick might be La Taza de Oro--consistently turning out great Puerto Rican comfort food and a crazy-cheap, rich, special cafe con leche.

Edited January 6, 2005 by Liz B-F (log)

[Pan]

On the Upper West Side (and Washington Heights), El Malecon deserves a mention. I forget the former name of the 97th St./Amsterdam branch, but it's always been dependable for some hearty Dominican food, or at least as long as I can remember (which is well back into the early 70s). By now, it's been quite some time since they installed the rotisseries, too, and you can always depend on them for some delicious pollo a la brasa.

Edited January 6, 2005 by Pan (log)

[ewindels]

Made my first visit, solo, to Felidia last night, which has been open since 1981, so I think it qualifies. Terrific experience, I would love to go back with a larger group for greater sampling of the menu (and soon, please, to partake of the 30-egg yolk pasta with white truffles, hello). A glass of Etna Spumante to accompany my perfectly sauteed, crispy sweetbreads with roasted cauliflower, and a glass of earthy, pungent Barbera to go with the enormous bowl of bittersweet chocolate parpadelle with wild boar ragu. The garlicky, salty flatbreads alone would have made me happy. The staff couldn't have been nicer. Never having been before, I can't say whether the place is holding up -- I'll let you know on my next visit .

[ewindels]

And in a nod to Fatguy's espousal of lower publicity establishments, allow me to laud Sal & Carmine's pizza, on Broadway between 101 and 102, in existence probably since Washington last visited Manhattan. Just two blocks from my apartment this place is a perennial danger to my waistline. Not being the fanatic connoisseur of authentic this-or-that styles of pizza as some of my esteemed gullet colleagues, I will vouch for this as my favorite old-fashioned slice shop, and would be seconded by the almost constant line of customers stuffed in their doorway.

[=Mark]

Despite Bobby Flay's annoyance factor, I've enjoyed Mesa Grill since before there was a food network. His bold use of chiles and spices never ceases to impress me. Though the floor can get kind of cacaphonous, I still have to respect the cuisine.

[zeitoun]

On the Upper West Side (and Washington Heights), El Malecon deserves a mention. I forget the former name of the 97th St./Amsterdam branch, but it's always been dependable for some hearty Dominican food, or at least as long as I can remember (which is well back into the early 70s). By now, it's been quite some time since they installed the rotisseries, too, and you can always depend on them for some delicious pollo a la brasa.

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I am always in search of good dominican food, i wasn't familiar with this one. Another place i would suggest that has consistently served good dominican food for years is El Economico on broadway and 231st street (on the 1-9 line). Always great for Sancocho which they make daily.

[Pan]

And in a nod to Fatguy's espousal of lower publicity establishments, allow me to laud Sal & Carmine's pizza, on Broadway between 101 and 102, in existence probably since Washington last visited Manhattan.[...]

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I haven't been there lately but always liked their pizza. I can vividly remember when they were just south of 95 St., with a little shop (smaller than now) next to the Symphony Theater (a movie theater that is now Symphony Space). They've existed as long as I remember, so that has to predate the early 70s.

[DanaT]

This may sound heretical but are there really any tried and true restaurants over 10 years old in Manhattan? The only restaurants I know over 10 years old are living on their reputation only. They may have been noteworthy once but something is missing. I think restaurants change hands and fold too quickly for that.

If I want to eat the best that New York has to offer at any price range or type of food, I'll go to a new restaurant with something to prove.

[Pan]

This may sound heretical but are there really any tried and true restaurants over 10 years old in Manhattan?[...]

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In other words, you're saying there aren't any? I'd love for you to rebut each entry so far in this thread.

[Fat Guy]

Peter Luger and Katz's Deli opened in 1887 and 1888, respectively. Does that count as more than 10 years old?

[DanaT]

It may be in how we define tried and true...for me, its good, dependable, and someplace I go often enough to be able to judge its consistency. Some of the suggestions look like they are based on one or two visits. For me, that would not be a basis to call a restaurant tried and true.

I've found that the higher the level of quality, the harder it is for a restaurant to keep consistency unless its at a certain price point where the extra dollars go to making each meal consistently excellent. Then its priced out of a range that allows you to go often engough to judge its consistency.

How often are people going to places like Katz, Peter Luger, etc.? Are any of the restaurants your neighborhood haunts?

[oakapple]

It may be in how we define tried and true...for me, its good, dependable, and someplace I go often enough to be able to judge its consistency. Some of the suggestions look like they are based on one or two visits. For me, that would not be a basis to call a restaurant tried and true.

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I suggested Gotham Bar & Grill, and I have visited it only once—and that was just recently. However, there's a huge body of critical consensus that Gotham has indeed been consistently great for almost twenty years. That consensus couldn't have emerged if Gotham were somehow "fudging it." Therefore, I have no problem putting Gotham on the list, even though I'm partly relying on other people's observations.

[Bux]

Daniel has been around for about ten years or so.

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These days, that might be a long time for a fine restaurant. Some might say the bar for fine dining has perhaps been raised even higher by Per Se, if not ADNY, but there's at least one restaurant I've considered in Daniel's class that was there before Daniel and is still doing well to the best of my knowledge. That's le Bernardin.

[docsconz]

Although it doesn't have the stature that it did in the early 90's and one can argue that its current iteration is really a newer restaurant, what about Bouley?

[Bux]

Although it doesn't have the stature that it did in the early 90's and one can argue that  its current iteration is really a newer restaurant, what about Bouley?

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I suppose it would depend on whether one has tried it lately and found it as true as it was. It has had two locations and two names at its current location.

[docsconz]

I'm not sure that it necessarily has to be as good as it was so long as it is still good. I haven't been there in over a year, but I enjoyed it at that time.

[Mnehrling]

Nobu never dissappoints.

Also, one cannot mention tried and true without mentioning Tavern on the Green. Tastes in cuisine may change, but the Tavern is always consistant.

[docsconz]

Nobu never dissappoints.

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I'm sorry, but I must disagree. Nobu was perhaps my most disappointing meal of the last ten years. I really don't see what all the fuss was (is) about. The room was ordinary at best, the service fair and the food decidedly mediocre, though certainly not inexpensive. My wife and I each had the $100 omakase. It started well enough, but then went steadily downhill. While I can't say that it wa a bad meal, it certainly didn't leave me with any desire to return.

[Mnehrling]

Nobu never dissappoints.

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I'm sorry, but I must disagree. Nobu was perhaps my most disappointing meal of the last ten years. I really don't see what all the fuss was (is) about. The room was ordinary at best, the service fair and the food decidedly mediocre, though certainly not inexpensive. My wife and I each had the $100 omakase. It started well enough, but then went steadily downhill. While I can't say that it wa a bad meal, it certainly didn't leave me with any desire to return.

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Maybe it is the fact that I am stuck in Texas. My trips to NY for business give me the opportunity to expierence something different. The Japanese scene down here is limited to Shogun.

What Japanese restaurants do you recommend in NYC? I'll probably be back there in February.

[SobaAddict70]

What Japanese restaurants do you recommend in NYC?  I'll probably be back there in February.

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That depends entirely on what you want re Japanese food.

If you want sushi, then Jewel Bako, Tsuki, SY or Kuruma. And of course there is always Masa....although it is in a class all by itself.

If you want ramen, then Minca is a nice introduction.

For soba, Honmura An or Soba-ya are two good places to go.

If you have to have Japanese influenced fusion, Asiate and Riingo are two choices above and beyond the range that Nobu has to offer, at least imo.

Soba

[DanaT]

I suggested Gotham Bar & Grill, and I have visited it only once—and that was just recently. However, there's a huge body of critical consensus that Gotham has indeed been consistently great for almost twenty years. That consensus couldn't have emerged if Gotham were somehow "fudging it." Therefore, I have no problem putting Gotham on the list, even though I'm partly relying on other people's observations.

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I didn't intend to put you on the spot oakapple it was just a general observation. If this had been a discussion of the best top-tier restaurants, I would place more emphasis on reputation and consensus. But for the tried and true standards, I think reputatiion has a lot more influence of people's perceptions of their meal.

But that may not be germane to the discussion here.

[Pan]

[...]How often are people going to places like Katz, Peter Luger, etc.? Are any of the restaurants your neighborhood haunts?

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Yes to Katz's. I've gone there perhaps an average of once every 3 months or so for the last oh, probably 8+ years, with other visits way back in the 70s. As for El Malecon, I've been there repeatedly for well over 30 years. I've been going to Teresa's for most of the time it's been open (over 15 years) and frequently get delivery and eat out there. Col Legno is a place I've been to over 10 times in the last 8+ years at least. I agree with you that there's no way to judge the consistency of a place if you haven't been there repeatedly.

[emilymarie]

I'd like to second, third, and fourth the votes for Gotham. Had dinner there last night--for the first time in about 4 to 5 years. Lovely, very comfortable and un-stuffy evening.

Had foie gras with gingerbread crust, quince and pomegranate. Dining cohort had risotto with applewood smoked bacon, duck confit and cabbage. Very nice.

Dinner was lobster over black trumpet mushrooms, shredded savoy cabbage and cauliflower with lobster sauce (not enough) and a delicious cauliflower custard. Also tasted venison with spinach and butternut squash puree in huckleberry sauce. Good, but much preferred mine.

Dessert was white chocolate and peanut butter mousse with 2 tiny bites of banana cake with a chocolate ganache or frosting with caramelized bananas. Also had Gotham chocolate cake, almost mousse-like, dense, and rich, with buttermilk ice cream, which very much tasted to me like cheesecake.

The service was attentive and everything about the place just made for a quiet, relaxing dinner. Very lovely! If that were my neighborhood (and if money was no object) I would certainly make it a regular spot.

[albie]

Keens Steakhouse, Harry's at Hanover Square, Bravo Gianni, Manducatis and The Four Seasons are my nominees.