Beef Dishes in Indian Food

[Suvir Saran]

So does anyone know of good beef dishes they have eaten at restaurants from the sub-continent?  Where did you get them?

How were they?

[Jason Perlow]

I've had a few here in New Jersey but none of them have been at the better Indian restaurants. For some reason I feel very strange ordering beef dishes in Indian places!

[Fat Guy]

India is about 80% Hindu, but so many "Indian" restaurants in New York are really Bangladeshi and the chefs have names like Mohammed. Bangladesh, a mostly Moslem country, is only about 15% Hindu. And plenty of Hindus in India eat beef just as many Jews eat pork.

Floyd Cardoz, the chef at Tabla in New York, is I believe Catholic. So he cooks anything. And his braised short ribs are the best in town and will continue to be until Gray Kunz opens another restaurant.

[jhlurie]

Are there no sacred cows anymore, Fat Guy?  Are there none?

:D

But seriously, I've only been to a single Indian restaurant with Beef.  I found myself so disarmed by the experience that I'm not sure I processed it correctly--I don't rightfully recall which beef dish I tried.  

I can at least IMAGINE something like a Samosa being much improved by beef.  A Beef Vindaloo maybe.

[Sandra Levine]

Floyd Cardoz, the chef at Tabla in New York, is I believe Catholic. .

Catholic, with the Sephardic name Cardoz, and from Goa, the fomer Portuguese colony?  I'll bet his family was Jewish before the Inquisition.  God help me, I'm beginning to morph into my grandmother.

[Jason Perlow]

That might explain the occasional appearance of matzo ball soup on the menu at Tabla.

[Suvir Saran]

I think Danny Meyer may be responsible for the occasional Matzo Ball Soup... Floyd to my knowledge has no Jewish Blood in his ancestry.  I wish more Indians had it, since the few that were Jewish have left India.  In goa pork and seafood rules.  

Why have many Jews left India?  Not for being harassed or troubled in India, but for being given money and bigger homes in Israel.  Some are not happy since  they left.  But they sold what  they had in INdia to make that move.  

In fact, India had a thriving, happy and very successful small Jewish community.  And they were loved and were a part of Indias heritage.  Now we have almost lot an entire community from the south of INdia in Israels efforts to bring the Jewish people from other lands into it's borders.

Not too long ago, the NY TImes had done a short story on the Jews from India that are living in Brooklyn.  And how they feel they are racially harassed in NYC but felt no such hurt when they lived back in India.

The cuisine of the Jews of India changes from region to region.  Depending on what part of India they settled in.  In fact, many did not eat much beef, in respect for the local Hindu community.  Just as many christians did not eat pork to respect their moslem neighbors.  And the moslems did not eat much beef, other than for ceremonial occasions for the very same reason.

Beef is eaten by Indias more so after they leave India.  It would be very very very uncommon for Hindus to eat beef as the Jews would eat pork here.  The reason is not as much religious as social.  One, it is difficult to procure beef easily.  Or at least good beef.  And secondly, since the communities are very tight and closely formed, any Hindu buying beef, opens their household and themselves to scorn.

I would have to agree, once overseas, they eat beef as the jews eat pork.  The ratio would be the same.  

What is the ratio of Jewish folk in Israel eating pork?  Does anyone know?  

If you check Indian cook books, for the most part, if written by Hindu writers, you will never find beef recipes.  Even those written by writers that eat beef in their homes. Curious!

[Suvir Saran]

Flloyd needs to be respected and revered for being able to cook some of the best short ribs, since he certainly did now grow up eating them, or even knowing what those were.  And in culinary school in India, one is not trained to learn that preparation.  

He was a favorite of Gray Kunz I am told.  So, perhaps he learned with a great master.  No wonder, Steven, you love that short rib preparation.

There are similarly many Indian women that never eat meat, and yet, cook grand meals with lots of meat and seafood without evert tasting it.

[Suvir Saran]

The oldest synagogue in the south east or perhaps even east of what is the middle east, is in India.  In Kochin, in southern India.  Unfortunately, there are no more than a handful enjoying thise temple.  It is mostly a tourist attraction.

The synagogue shares a wall with a local Hindu temple.  The ruler that gave refuge to the Jews escaping persecution, understood the clever politic of doing so.  In having the temple and the synagogue share a wall, for posterity, he protected the synagogue from being attacked.  Clever thinking!

We need more people thinking like that these days.

[anil]

From my hazy recollection, there are a couple of restaurants in Kolkatta that are runs by Indian Jewish family.  The Jews in Middle India are mostly Bagdadi-Jews, their food preparation is different from the one's in Koklatta. In Mumbai the Jewish food tradition is a mishmash of parsi/Irani influence -- Don't ask me why ? I'm still trying to figure that out myself.

Currently, Mumbai has the only sizeable community. Elsewhere, the very famous and renowned have stayed behind while their children have migrated to .IL or .US

[Suvir Saran]

Anil,

YOu are correct.  In fact, many of the chefs that worked in the Jewish families of both Calcutta and Cochin were Non-Jews.  And in researching the foods of their communities, one has had to rely on the chefs to gather recipes and traditions.

[Suvir Saran]

Anil,

I am curious... are you in the food business in NYC?  And I take it you come from Delhi, is  that a safe guess.  I think I may have picked this up from the dessert thread.

Your knowledge and understanding remind me of another guest here, Vivin.  He too shares the same passion and understanding of the fine nuances of Indian cooking across the many parts of India.  So many people try limiting Indian cuisine by defining it with what has been seen in restaurants.  I realize from your words that you have seen it in its many varied forms.  And that makes all the difference.

I have enjoyed your postings very much.  Through all the different threads.  

Look forward to reading more from you.