Escoffier Room, CIA Hyde Park

[adegiulio]

As I mentioned in a related post, I spent a week up at CIA Hyde Park. One of the restaurants we dined at was the Escoffier Room, the CIA's French restaurant, and what some people may call its flagship. The ship has sunk...

Since we were a large group, we ate in their "Library Room." It's a pretty cool semi-private room that could probably fit 12-14 diners. Our waitress had but three weeks to go before graduating, and I think her head was already at her post-graduation party. She was nervous and unsure, her voice crackled in response to all inquiries. Topics of conversation swung from her dental hygiene habits to the weather in Southern California. Her knowledge of the menu was limited. Her desire to be serving us was non-existant. She hated us. Again, the basics went unattended to. Martini glasses sat empty for hours until I quietly mentioned to someone that they should be removed. New silverware was placed before the preceeding course's dishes were removed. Forks and knives were haphazardly placed in no particular order on no particular side. I seriously think that my young puppy Weimaraner could have done a better job...This was the worst service we experienced at the CIA, and probably in the lowest 5 percentile of all restaurants I have ever eaten in.

Our food was a step up from American Bounty, but below what you would expect from a place like this. One nice dish was a Napoleon of Scallop, Truffles, and Potato in a Vanilla Buerre Blanc. A terrine of Foie Gras with Braised oxtail was quite good and very well prepared. Several people at the table enjoyed their John Dory with tomato and a cream sauce. Some clunkers were braised Veal Cheeks and some duck dish I don't recall....

To sum up, it is clear where the focus is in these restaurants. Some will be content to know that the bad service is simply indicative of uncaring students. That is, the students don't care about service, its just not important to them. I feel that anything worth doing is worth doing well, and the difference between shitty service and decent service is not that much. It doesn't take much more work to do things right, it just takes more care. Care is one of those qualities that differentiates the elite from the competent. The elite realize they can elevate their game by just sprinkling their work with an intangible quality. Call it diligence, call it care, call it respect. I feel a student that doesn't care about service might not care about cooking. When its 10:50 on a Tuesday night and the kitchen closes in ten minutes, the elite cook like its 7:00 and Paul Bocuse just sat down. The competent scrape together some grub for the hobo that just stumbled in. Sure, most student chefs at the CIA will never see the front of the house when they enter the working world. Knowing that, and still providing top notch service, is a sign of excellence. More students need to know that...

[intraining]

that doesn't sound too good.

i'm in school and would like the chance of getting some front of house experience. but then, i like to encompass everyting i do.

[DanaT]

Hmm, that's too bad. Its not the first time I've heard of poor service there. I ate dinner there a couple of summers ago. From what I remember the meal and service were both excellent except, a lobster/citrus appetizer didn't do much for me and they miscalculated the bill and took about 30 minutes to fix. But we had about 5 courses for $70 each including three wines and a cocktail so even with the lackluster appetizer and waiting for the bill, we came out ahead of a full service New York restaurant.

Still you wish they could at least get the service portion of the package down. One couple that ate with us had eaten there before and the man told us a waiter had spilled wine on his jacket. The manager responded promptly and offered to pay the dry cleaning bill if he would send it to them which he did but then CIA never reimbursed him until he came back with our group a year later.

Needless to say he wasn't impressed.

[gmi3804]

As a former CIA student, I can say that the "E" Room (as we called it) always delivered a better experience that The American Bounty, even though the latter restaurant was their flagship. I remember great tableside Caesar salads from the E Room. But it's true that the service is shaky, served by students who just need to get the table service classes done. The CIA restaurants are pretty much average at best. The emperor has no clothes.

[Stone]

But it's true that the service is shaky, served by students who just need to get the table service classes done.

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Do the servers get tipped?

[gmi3804]

But it's true that the service is shaky, served by students who just need to get the table service classes done.

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Do the servers get tipped?

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Yes, but the money goes into some kind of student fund, not directly to the servers.

[chopjwu12]

the key word in all this is STUDENTS!!!! These kids dont have a clue and to expect anything great from the is asking to much.

[Stone]

the key word in all this is STUDENTS!!!! These kids dont have a clue and to expect anything great from the is asking to much.

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That's absurd. There are college students all over the country earning their way by waiting tables. And they do a great job. It's not brain surgery.

[gmi3804]

My problem (that word's a bit harsh) is that the CIA restaurrants are always touted as being some extraordinary culinary experience (with prices to match) which shouldn't be missed. While it's great to see the school (and it's a wonderful campus) which is devoted solely to the culinary arts, the food and service in the restaurants often fall way below standards for similarly-priced, professional establishments. In the students' defense, they're not at the school with the hopes of becoming professional waitstaff (though experience with table service is an important part of a well-rounded culinary education), and it often shows in the service.

So go with limited expectations and you'll have an interesting meal and see a unique school.

[adegiulio]

the key word in all this is STUDENTS!!!! These kids dont have a clue and to expect anything great from the is asking to much.

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That's absurd. There are college students all over the country earning their way by waiting tables. And they do a great job. It's not brain surgery.

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Good point Stone...Not to mention, these aren't beauty school students, they are Culinary School students. Supposedly the future of fine dining rests in their hands. That may be a bit of hyperbole, but you should expect more from them than from your average server...

[docsconz]

One thing they should be learning from this is that if the FOH is subpar it really doesn't matter how good the food is. The restaurant will almost certainly fail. Interestingly, I'm not sure the converse is necessarily true.

The best students probably take it seriously and try to understand it. The others probably figure that is not what they are there for and go through the motions. I wonder how Rocco approached it?

[phaelon56]

the key word in all this is STUDENTS!!!! These kids dont have a clue and to expect anything great from the is asking to much.

I've eaten at L'Ecole in NYC, the Frecnh Culinary Institutes's restaurant, on a number of occasions. There servers there are also student from the Institute and although the service was not highly polished it was always competent, efficient and genuinely friendly (without trying to be overly familiar). This dilemma at CIA sounds to me like a management/training issue. Admittedly, CIA is a much larger school, but anyone who can master the intracies and pressure of working the line in a commercial kitchen can surely become competent in FOH procedures, given the right training, supervision and motivation.

[gmi3804]

the key word in all this is STUDENTS!!!! These kids dont have a clue and to expect anything great from the is asking to much.

I've eaten at L'Ecole in NYC, the Frecnh Culinary Institutes's restaurant, on a number of occasions. There servers there are also student from the Institute and although the service was not highly polished it was always competent, efficient and genuinely friendly (without trying to be overly familiar). This dilemma at CIA sounds to me like a management/training issue. Admittedly, CIA is a much larger school, but anyone who can master the intracies and pressure of working the line in a commercial kitchen can surely become competent in FOH procedures, given the right training, supervision and motivation.

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Another thing to remember is that the teaching staff at the CIA is, by and large, very competent and sometimes downright dictatorial. There's no reason why students in the table service classes (which is what the waitstaff gig is) shouldn't be held to the same high standards as the other culinary classes.

However, something else which comes in to play is nature of the rotation of classes. Each restaurant (at least when I was there in '92-'93) rotation is a 14-day class, 7 days in the kitchen, 7 days FOH. Within those seven days, each student rotates within the kitchen at various stations or within the FOH operations at various positions (host, waitstaff, busing, etc.) So any given day will give you someone with little/no experience at that particular position, so the experience for the diner could vary wildly. The instructors certainly have their hands full!

[Busboy]

the key word in all this is STUDENTS!!!! These kids dont have a clue and to expect anything great from the is asking to much.

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That's absurd. There are college students all over the country earning their way by waiting tables. And they do a great job. It's not brain surgery.

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Good point Stone...Not to mention, these aren't beauty school students, they are Culinary School students. Supposedly the future of fine dining rests in their hands. That may be a bit of hyperbole, but you should expect more from them than from your average server...

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Given the number of legitimate complaints here and everywhere about poor service, especially in nicer restaurants (and, as a former server) I'd like to point out that, while not "brain surgery," waiting tables is indeed a skill that takes time and dedication to master and should not be dismissed.

That being said, even a new waiter should be competent enough to get the glasses on the table and add the check properly, and should have enough respect for their patrons and their house to care about the service -- that, more than any particular skill, seems to be what was lacking.

[adegiulio]

That being said, even a new waiter should be competent enough to get the glasses on the table and add the check properly, and should have enough respect for their patrons and their house to care about the service -- that, more than any particular skill, seems to be what was lacking.

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Very well put..

[chopjwu12]

there still studets that ohnestly barely give a shit about the food they cook never mind a service class. Difference between fci and cia is age by the way. Adults tend to ake things a little more serious then kids at the cia.

[Ore]

Damn, an almost 'bash CIA restaurants page'!!!!

Well - few things to clear up -

I left CIA last April - the dining room works like this now (unless it has changed again!)

The student gets three weeks (14 school days) at the FOH of either St. Andys or Caterina and then either Escoffier or Bounty. It used to be 7 days at all four - that has changed to allow for more detail in service with the same instructor.

Something else to not forget - there is always going to be a DAY 1 - when making the reservation - try to stay away from this - for E-room and bounty it is usually a Friday - for the other two, it is usually at the beginning of the week.

Another thing - Avg. age CIA (i think) is still around 26 - the students who are serious about it are serious!

It still sucks that you had a shitty meal though! That tiny dining room gets really stuffy at times and is not the easiest to serve in! Where you there on a day 1!?!

Also, E-room has such a different style of service that the newer students into the class get blown away. I remember that we had to know the name of all the service ware used in the dining room and ID it prior to entering the class! As well as all the menu buzz words, wine list and by the glass, as well as kitchen menu (which is much easier becuase you first are in the kitchen, then in the dining room!).

Ciao,

Ore

PS - you should try Caterina!

[DanaT]

Damn, an almost 'bash CIA restaurants page'!!!!

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No, not a bash. Actually our meal and service were quite good and pricewise it compared favorably to meals in Manhattan so it was worth the trip.

The only person who was really out of whack about the miscalculated bill was the lawyer who got his jacket spilled on the year before and never got reimbursed.

I think CIA Escoffier is still a good place to try a fine dining experience at less than Manhattan prices.

I never tried Caterina, Ore. What's the difference?