Le Creuset

[fifi]

Sorry... The essay is in his book It Must Have Been Something I Ate. I also see that I have misspelled... dauphinois. He extols the properties of the enameled cast iron for optimum caramelization and crust. Having tried the simple potato recipe in different pans, I have to concede that he is correct.

[snowangel]

Listening to fifi on the subject of LeCrueset is taking an immediate hit on the wallet. Trust me. Trust a bunch of us. She hypnotizes all of us on this topic. Me in a chair. fifi in a chair. Look at this. Watch it. Want to buy it. Need to buy it. Become possessed with needing it. Repeat after me. Must have. Now.

And, you know, she's right. This is grand stuff.

[Richard Kilgore]

As LC owner's guide says, use only wood or nylon/plastic/silicon utensils on LCs.

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You mean I am supposed to read the manual???

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Well, not if you are taking an empirical approach to the problem. Let's see, wire brush -- oops! AJAX..oops! Copper scrubber thingie...oops Metal spoon...oops!

[fifi]

Listening to fifi on the subject of LeCrueset is taking an immediate hit on the wallet.  Trust me.  Trust a bunch of us.  She hypnotizes all of us on this topic.  Me in a chair.  fifi in a chair.  Look at this.  Watch it.  Want to buy it.  Need to buy it.  Become possessed with needing it.  Repeat after me.  Must have.  Now.

And, you know, she's right.  This is grand stuff.

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heh... heh... heh... BWHAHAHAHAHA!

Actually, my attachment to LC probably has a lot to do with my particular style of cooking. I go in for slow cooking. Not necessarily Slow Food in that sense. I tend toward braises, soups, stews, gratins, the kind of things that are nudged along rather than rushed. Anything that is fast and requires attention is a potential for disaster in my kitchen. I am genetically incapable of putting garlic bread under the broiler without burning the first batch. I don't feel a compelling need for that copper saute pan... yet.

If you are a cook that mostly grills, sautes, broils, you could probably do without LC and be perfectly happy in your kitchen.

If you are a more "balanced" cook than I am, you would probably enjoy having a few pieces of LC or their ilk. (I don't think I have any stock in LC. )

[Smithy]

Yowza. I've learned so far, from wandering through the local TJMaxx, that Le Creuset also makes stoneware - lovely baking dishes, with a price that made me laugh with relief until I realized that it wasn't the enamelled cast iron in question. None of that happened to be around. I DID find a large black Chambra pot, with lid, with minor scuff marks. I thought of Fifi, the hypnotist, but didn't buy it. (Maybe if it's still there next weekend...) Then the investigation led to EBay, and that leads to my question.

I seem to recall that LC imports were banned along about 197x because of FDA concerns about metals leaching from the glaze. I think cadmium in the reds and lead from the whites were the issues. The stuff wasn't imported here for some years, until LC reformulated the glaze.

Does anyone here remember any more details? I'd hate to win a vintage LC on EBay only to poison myself and my guests with the lovely gratin.

Edited to add: I found the article I was thinking of, here. Since the scare was apparently over the colored glazes, and LC has white, maybe LC wasn't the problem after all. I'm still curious about what other folks may know about the issue.

Edited November 17, 2004 by Smithy (log)

[...tm...]

Well, I've spent a long time wishing for an enameled cast iron dutch oven and have finally decided to make that wish come true. As I am unemployed I don't want to overspend, but I don't want to buy something of poor quality just to save a few bucks in the short run. In fact, I'll probably ask for one as a present, but I don't want my family to overspend either. But I want to have good reasons to tell them why I need any specific pan. My questions aren't about what is so great about enameled cast iron, but if anyone has worked much with any of the other enameled cast iron pans. My googling seems to show that, in addition to Le Creuset, Staub, Chasseur, and Innova make some sort of enameled cast iron pans. I also came upon some enameled Lodge cookware. I've actually used LeCreuset and Staub in person and been more than pleased with the results. The other two brands I have never used and am not that familiar with, but appear to be significantly cheaper. So, if lack of good sales prevent me from getting my preference anytime soon does anyone have anything good or bad to say about Innova or Chasseur? Posts here seem to indicate that Le Creuset has excellent customer service and is extremely helpful with replacements, even when damage is caused by use. The other brands seem to have only warranties that only cover defects in material or workmanship, the cheaper two brands for only a limited time (10 or 25 years). Further googling shows that the Le Creuset warranty is stated as a worksmanship warranty, but seems to be more broadly implemented in practice. It looks like I'm still as indecisive as ever.

[snowangel]

I got a dilly of a deal on a LeCrueset at Marshall's. The lid and bottom didn't match, so I "bartered" for an even better deal. The two "strays" look great together, and it was way less than budget busting. Have you looked on Ebay or a place like TJ Maxx or Marshalls? I know, also, that when I look at the Dining section of the NY Times on Wednesdays, Broadway Panhandler will sometimes have a particular Le Crueset dutch oven heavily discounted; perhaps they ship?

Yes, it is what you need (per fifi).

[Richard Kilgore]

You should be able to find Le Cruset seconds (and sometimes firsts) at a drastically reduced price at Marshall's and TJMaxx right now. For example, 5 qt for $100. Also follow the Amazon link at the bottom of the page and check out each color variation of the size LC you want, because sometimes a particular color is reduced. There have been some incredible bargains there.

The Chasseur, Paul Bocuse and Staub are made by the same factory. The Staub is more attractive and may be thicker iron with better enameling, but both have dark interiors, which I don't like, in contrast to the light interiors on most LCs. I do have a 3 qt. Chasseur and I do use it, but the dark, textured interior is much more difficult to get clean.

[Kim WB]

just chiming in...TJ Maxx and Marshall's are the way to go. I live 10 miles from a LC factory store, but have seen better prices at the above mentioned emporiums...not specific colors, designs, etc..but there always seems to be a dutch oven or five around...If I were young and on a limited budget, I would search at the discount chains.

[oraklet]

You should be able to find Le Cruset seconds (and sometimes firsts) at a drastically reduced price at Marshall's and TJMaxx right now. For example, 5 qt for $100. Also follow the Amazon link at the bottom of the page and check out each color variation of the size LC you want, because sometimes a particular color is reduced. There have been some incredible bargains there.

The Chasseur, Paul Bocuse and Staub are made by the same factory. The Staub is more attractive and may be thicker iron with better enameling, but both have dark interiors, which I don't like, in contrast to the light interiors on most LCs. I do have a 3 qt. Chasseur and I do use it, but the dark, textured interior is much more difficult to get clean.

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i've acquired a rather large collection of cast iron, enameled and non-, over the last 3 years - all of it second hand, and not one piece at more than 40$. some le creuset, a lot of old danish copco (which is heavier than l.c.), a few very old swedish kockums and some ancient unknown danish make ("ribe jernstøberi"). it all works and looks fine, except the huge gratin thingy my mother-in-law gave me, as she had somehow burned the inside too many times. lousy cook, really. there are a few chips on the outside of some of them, but they don't spread.

this leads me to think that most heavy enamelled cast iron makes will perform equally, and that there's no reason to pay a king's ransom for new l.c.!

[bloviatrix]

I know, also, that when I look at the Dining section of the NY Times on Wednesdays, Broadway Panhandler will sometimes have a particular Le Crueset dutch oven heavily discounted; perhaps they ship?

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Broadway Panhandler most definitely ships (although I've schlepped my pieces home on the subway).

[fifi]

Yowza.  I've learned so far, from wandering through the local TJMaxx, that Le Creuset also makes stoneware - lovely baking dishes, with a price that made me laugh with relief until I realized that it wasn't the enamelled cast iron in question.  None of that happened to be around.  I DID find a large black Chambra pot, with lid, with minor scuff marks.  I thought of Fifi, the hypnotist, but didn't buy it.  (Maybe if it's still there next weekend...) Then the investigation led to EBay, and that leads to my question.

I seem to recall that LC imports were banned along about 197x because of FDA concerns about metals leaching from the glaze.  I think cadmium in the reds and lead from the whites were the issues.  The stuff wasn't imported here for some years, until LC reformulated the glaze.

Does anyone here remember any more details?  I'd hate to win a vintage LC on EBay only to poison myself and my guests with the lovely gratin.

Edited to add:  I found the article I was thinking of, here.  Since the scare was apparently over the colored glazes, and LC has white, maybe LC wasn't the problem after all.  I'm still curious about what other folks may know about the issue.

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Wowser... You found Chambra there? I have been drooling over that stuff for some time.

Yes, LC makes a line of pottery. That is why when I am extolling the virtues of a LC gratin, I always mention the enamelled cast iron, not the pottery.

I don't remember a problem with LC glaze. Personally, if the concern was with the exterior I wouldn't worry about it. I worked at FDA from about '67 to '72. We had a lot of pottery come in for testing from Mexico and Italy. I would really be surprised that a product manufactured in France would be a concern. But I might be wrong. Having been involved in this kind of testing for several years, I have always had an interest and I think I would have noticed a problem with something as high profile as LC. You could go to the FDA web site and send them a question. You can also purchase lead testing kits. If I can find that thread where we tracked that down, I will provide a link here.

[...tm...]

Thanks--it looks lie I'll be trying to get my hands on all the enameled cast iron that I can.

[Smithy]

Wowser... You found Chambra there? I have been drooling over that stuff for some time.

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That would be the stuff! I note, by the way, that you and I have both been misspelling "Chamba". Shame on us.

I don't remember a problem with LC glaze. Personally, if the concern was with the exterior I wouldn't worry about it. I worked at FDA from about '67 to '72. We had a lot of pottery come in for testing from Mexico and Italy. I would really be surprised that a product manufactured in France would be a concern. But I might be wrong. Having been involved in this kind of testing for several years, I have always had an interest and I think I would have noticed a problem with something as high profile as LC. You could go to the FDA web site and send them a question. You can also purchase lead testing kits. If I can find that thread where we tracked that down, I will provide a link here.

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Here's a link to my post, following up on your link in the Pot Addict thread, describing the test kits and the method. I agree that metals in the exterior glaze wouldn't be a concern. I thought I'd read that there was a serious food leaching concern on the interior surfaces, but I haven't found anything suggesting so. Must be my bad memory. You'd have known about it, given when you worked at the FDA.

[fifi]

Thanks for the link.

I share in your shame at the misspelling. But... I still want those pots.

[fiftydollars]

That black chamba stuff looks awesome! Who has some of this stuff? It looks great. How does it cook?

And you know... I'm starting to think that I really don't like fifi.

Let's see... so far there was that KA food processor, then the LC, and now black chamba! What next? Crack?

Someone needs to put a stop to this woman!!!

Immediately!!!

Edited November 18, 2004 by fiftydollars (log)

[fifi]

BWAHAHAHAHA!

Actually, Paula Wolfert put us onto the black chamba stuff and I don't have any... yet.

Now... Give in. Go get that gratin. BWAHAHAHAHA!

[Mottmott]

That black chamba stuff looks awesome! Who has some of this stuff? It looks great. How does it cook?

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I confess to having a piece, but it's so beautiful I'm afraid to use it.

Especially now since I'm sharing my kitchen with my DIL who is very busy and doesn't share my fetish about taking extreme good care of kitchen equipment.

I'm also concerned about whether it needs to be seasoned in some way.

[slkinsey]

Thanks--it looks lie I'll be trying to get my hands on all the enameled cast iron that I can.

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Keep in mind that enameled cast iron for the stovetop is really only useful for low/slow cooking. It's not very good for browning, and it's actively bad for any applications that require temperature control. I would never want an enameled cast iron skillet, nor would I want an enameled cast iron saucepan for actually making sauces (although I do have a tall, conical Le Creuset saucepan that I use for holding sauces at temperature and other low/slow kinds of tasks).

[marie-louise]

Tis the season...

Nothing makes a better crust on a baking pan of stuffing than a Le Creuset rectangular enameled cast iron baking pan. Or two.

Edited November 19, 2004 by marie-louise (log)

[Smithy]

Thanks--it looks lie I'll be trying to get my hands on all the enameled cast iron that I can.

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Keep in mind that enameled cast iron for the stovetop is really only useful for low/slow cooking. It's not very good for browning, and it's actively bad for any applications that require temperature control. I would never want an enameled cast iron skillet, nor would I want an enameled cast iron saucepan for actually making sauces (although I do have a tall, conical Le Creuset saucepan that I use for holding sauces at temperature and other low/slow kinds of tasks).

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Sam, in your opinion does "not very good for browning" apply even to browning before adding braising liquid and then doing the low/slow thing? Why or why not?

[hwilson41]

Ditto on Smithy's question. Sam knows more than I ever will about metallurgy I suspect, but I have quite a bit of LC, and I've been using the 5 Qt(?) Dutch ovens to make Boeuf Bourguignon and Texas Chili since the 1970s, and I always brown the beef in them before I add onions, peppers, or whatever. Seems to work just fine. I'm a little perplexed by the statement that LC is not good for browning, because my experience has been exactly the opposite. Have also made some pretty damned good Hollandaise and Bearnaise in smaller LC ovens. They keep very nicely for a (limited) amount of time over a very low BTU flame.

THW

[jayt90]

While there have been Le Creuset look alikes over the years (remember Andre de Cousances?) I am now starting to see copies from China. In my area, I can find La Campagne, at the Bay, for 1/3 the price of LC. It is not as well finished, but it will certainly do the same job.

[slkinsey]

Sam, in your opinion does "not very good for browning" apply even to browning before adding braising liquid and then doing the low/slow thing? Why or why not?

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I'm not saying that it doesn't eventually brown things, I'm just saying that it's not very good at it compared to other materials. This is because enamel does not have good properties for browning.

Try this: Get out your LC French oven, slap it on the stove and put some heat under it. Do the same thing with a saute pan with a thick aluminum disk bottom or a nice heavy fry pan. Brown a few chicken thighs in each one. See which pan does a better job. I've already done something like this, in case you're wondering.

It's fine to brown something in an enameled cast iron cocotte if you're later going to be using it for a braise. That said, if I know I need to brown off a whole lot of lamb shanks or something like that before braising in enameled cast iron, I do tend to brown the meat in a separate pan with a metal surface. It just goes a lot faster that way. When you brown something in an enameled cast iron cocotte, you're taking advantage of one-pot-cooking convenience. But there is a tradeoff: the browning isn't as easy and thorough, but you get the ultimate pan for the braising part. Seems like a good tradeoff to me. On the other hand, I think it would be a mistake to buy an enameled cast iron pan in a shape (e.g., a skillet) that is used primarily for browning, because other materials do that job better and for less money.

Have also made some pretty damned good Hollandaise and Bearnaise in smaller LC ovens.  They keep very nicely for a (limited) amount of time over a very low BTU flame.

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Again, it is of course not impossible to make a delicate sauce like Hollandaise in enameled cast iron. Heck, it's possible to make a delicate sauce like Hollandaise in an empty coconut shell over a pan of simmering water if you try hard enough. The point is that enameled cast iron is not a material that lends itself to these techniques. When making a delicate sauce, it is advantageous to have very precise temperature control and a pan that is quickly responsive to changes in the heat source. As anyone who has made enough Hollandaise knows, a few degrees can make the difference between the perfect sauce and a pan of scrambled eggs. Heavy cast iron is the exact opposite of responsive, and for this reason it is not recommended for making sauces.

[Smithy]

Thanks for that extra information, Sam. It helps me decide just how far to let Fifi hypnotize me into extra purchases. I tend toward the one-pot camp rather than browning in one, then braising in another camp, largely because I generally wash those large pots by hand.

Still.. Fifi, you baaaad woman, I have a small casserole on the way from Ebay, and with just a bit of luck I'll have a gratin or two won within a day also. You are very hard on the bank account, gal. Just to make up it: that large black Chamba pot was still at TJMaxx tonight. How badly do you want it?