Seoul Garden Restaurant

[mascarpone]

On Sunday my girlfriend and I were treated to a great dinner by a students parents at Seoul Garden Restaurant 34 W. 32nd Street (between Broadway and 5th Ave.) 2nd floor Manhattan 212-736-9002 (Sun-Thur. 11AM-12AM; Fri-Sat 11AM-2AM). A students mother ordered for our party of six. LA galbi was grilled on a gas grill at the table and was eaten in lettuce leaves--solid. The real highlights of the meal, however, were the Jigae or thick stews; two of which were made with soft tofu and the third was a healthy chicken Vegetable/Genseng root soup. One thing that struck me at this meal was the contrast between the spicy Kimchi Soon Tofu Jigae and the milder Soybean Paste Soon Tofu Jigae and the milder still Chicken/Genseng soup (that I can't remeber the name off hand). The Tofu stews were both $8.95 while the Chicken Genseng was more expensive at around $17.95 if my memory serves me correctly. My host said that the chicken/vegetable/genseng stew was supposed to be very healthy. I was also told that this restaurant was distinctive in that it did not put MSG in its food. Evidenlty, in the Korean community, the Chicken/Genseng stew at Seoul Garden is even superior to that of Kang Suh. Although I have not had this stew before I can say that the Tofu Jigae are tops.

[Pan]

Thanks for the report.

It looks like you're going to visit every Korean restaurant in the West 30s. Is Flushing next?

[mascarpone]

If I am offered a position at Queens College or Queensboro Community College and I get a private studio of Korean students with ambitious parents, I don't see why that couldn't be a possibility.

[mjs]

I second the endorsement of the soft natural tofu there.

The name of the chicken/ginseng soup is Sam Gae Tang. It is very popular all over Korea and considered quite healthy (kind of how Jews feel about chicken soup). I haven't tried it at Seoul Garden but, it is a favorite of mine (although, not spicy at all).

[mascarpone]

I second the endorsement of the soft natural tofu there.

The name of the chicken/ginseng soup is Sam Gae Tang.  It is very popular all over Korea and considered quite healthy (kind of how Jews feel about chicken soup).  I haven't tried it at Seoul Garden but, it is a favorite of mine (although, not spicy at all).

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Sam Gae Tang, yeah ...thats it. At Seoul Garden they stuck a whole genseng root in the Sam Gae Tang. Perhaps this is routine , as I have only had Sam Gae Tang at Seoul Garden.

[Todd36]

I like Seoul Garden. On the other hand, when I ate there with a Korean friend and her live in Korea parents, they did not like it all. Also, for whatever it's worth, about 25% of the customers at Seoul Garden are Japanese (mostly female), for reasons unknown.

[mascarpone]

I like Seoul Garden.  On the other hand, when I ate there with a Korean friend and her live in Korea parents, they did not like it all.  Also, for whatever it's worth, about 25% of the customers at Seoul Garden are Japanese (mostly female), for reasons unknown.

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That is interesting. Perhaps a Japanese tour agency reccs them. I have found the same phenomena at the Vietnamese Restaurant Monsoon on Broadway in the 80's I think.

[jschyun]

I like Seoul Garden.  On the other hand, when I ate there with a Korean friend and her live in Korea parents, they did not like it all.  Also, for whatever it's worth, about 25% of the customers at Seoul Garden are Japanese (mostly female), for reasons unknown.

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I hate to say this, but in my experience, this is a very bad sign.

[mascarpone]

I hate to say this, but in my experience, this is a very bad sign.

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Why is this bad?

[jschyun]

Well, maybe I'm wrong. The sample is very small. The reason why I think that the fact that the korean family didn't like it isa bad sign is due to what I will call my "Mom knows best" rule of restaurant eating.

If I check with all my (Korean) friends and none of their moms like a restaurant then I pretty much am guaranteed a shitty meal. But then what is shitty? Of course the answer to that varies with each person, but somehow, if I ever failed to heed this rule, I have had to pay the consequences. And it's not just for Korean food. This rule works really well in Chinese food, especially if you're looking for cheap and relatively good.

Speaking of mothers, someone was talking about Jewish chicken soup, well, I read Dan Greenburg's book "How to be a Jewish Mother" and it was like I was reading about my mom!

Obviously you have had a good meal here, so don't listen to my babbling. It's just that I've had my share of bad meals and it was my knee-jerk reaction to say something. Sorry. Carry on.

By the way, I notice that a lot of Korean restaurants here in CA do not put MSG in anything. I specifically ask to make sure. I am surprised that many restaurants use it in NY.

[Todd36]

Koreantown in Manhattan has a couple of hotels that are very popular with Japanese tour groups---All of the nearby Korean Restaurants have at least some Japanese customers, and several have Japanese language menus (Seoul Garden has only a few items listed in Japanese but has more Japanese customers than any other place I've seen in Manhattan's Chinatown).

In terms of MSG....well, I'm sure some places use it more than others, at least in pure straight form, but if it's Asian food, it's going to have at least some MSG. For example, anything that contains hydrolyzed protein plus sodium most likely has MSG in it. A good example of something that has both hydrolyzed protein and sodium is soy sauce. Doesn't matter if its natural or not, just cooking and/or fementing the soy beans creates hydrolyzed proteon. I once saw a TV show on how MSG was first developed as a food additive: you can make the stuff using a pile of soybeans, table salt, a pot, a cloth and an open fire. No advanced process or technology is required, it can be made in your backyard. If you Google MSG you'll discover that many foods have pretty high levels of the stuff naturally, and anything Asian that is a flavoring agent (soy sauce, natto, kim chi) most likely has significant amounts. So the restaurant can say with a straight face they don't add MSG....they just add an ingredent that happens to contains lots of MSG.

[jschyun]

You're so right, Todd36.

And the fact that the original poster implied that many other NY Korean restaurants used MSG leads me then to believe that NY Korean restaurants must be much worse than what I'm used to here in Southern California. Again, you're right in saying that soy sauce has pretty high levels of the stuff, so hell, if they can't make a dish taste good with normal ingredients and have to resort to the evil white taste powder, then they must be pretty bad.

But I won't have a real opinion until I've asked everyone's mom of course (please see "Mom knows best" rule 2 posts back.)

Parmesan cheese has lots of glutamates, and so do tomato products, but you don't see Westerners asking about the MSG content of Italian dishes. OTOH, the glutamates in soy sauce are free glutamates which are more quickly taken up by the consumer. But, I've seen people who eat ketchup (lots of free glutamates here) just fine but hold off on the Chinese takeout because they don't want MSG in their food. This is the subtly racist idiocy that still permeates our culture, a holdover, no doubt, from the days of The Yellow Peril.

--by the way, kimchi is not a flavoring agent. It's an actual food on its own. As for it containing large amounts of glutamates, I request that you provide proof. I have eaten and made kimchi all my life and most types I can think of do not have the distinct glutamic acid taste I would otherwise immediately recognize.

Edited October 6, 2004 by jschyun (log)

[mascarpone]

The parents of the student I teach that treated and highly recommended Seoul Garden are from Korea and the mother was the one who suggested the place and ordered the food.

She claims to have been to most of the Korean restaurants in Manhattan, Flushing, as well as New Jersey.

[Todd36]

--by the way, kimchi is not a flavoring agent. It's an actual food on its own. As for it containing large amounts of glutamates, I request that you provide proof. I have eaten and made kimchi all my life and most types I can think of do not have the distinct glutamic acid taste I would otherwise immediately recognize.

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[jschyun]

Do a google search on kimchi and MSG.  Surprise, most kimchi recipes include MSG as a direct ingredent. 

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This is a good example of skewing your search in trying to prove your point.

If you just do a google search on "kimchi recipe" you'll find your hits will not have MSG. I didn't need to do a google search, having several kimchi cookbooks at home, but I was not surprised to find that searching under "kimchi recipe" in google didn't turn up any recipes in the first page asking for MSG. Actually, in the home, peopel I know don't use MSG, but in commercial preparations, I can see it being used, though I know the brand I buy does not have any.

MSG does make things taste better. For instance, I'm sure Pasta-Roni would be totally inedible without MSG. Actually, soondubu chigae usually has some MSG in it, at least the good ones do, in my experience. Maybe that's why that family didn't like it, hehe.

mascarpone. Next time I'm in NY, I'll try Seoul Garden. It sounds lovely. I did hear that there are some good places in Jersey too.

--uh, maybe to you kimchi is a flavoring agent, but you clearly don't eat Korean food that much. If "designed to be eaten with something else" is the determining factor, then geez I guess mashed potatoes is a flavoring agent as well.

Edited October 6, 2004 by jschyun (log)

[Todd36]

This is a good example of skewing your search in trying to prove your point. 

If you just do a google search on "kimchi recipe" you'll find your hits will not have MSG.  I didn't need to do a google search, having several kimchi cookbooks at home, but I was not surprised to find that searching under "kimchi recipe" in google didn't turn up any recipes in the first page asking for MSG.  Actually, in the home, peopel I know don't use MSG, but in commercial preparations, I can see it being used, though I know the brand I buy does not have any. 

.....

--uh, maybe to you kimchi is a flavoring agent, but you clearly don't eat Korean food that much.  If "designed to be eaten with something else" is the determining factor, then geez I guess mashed potatoes is a flavoring agent as well.

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Unless your kimchi recipe doesn't call for salt and or fermentation, you're going to be making your very own MSG as part of the process. Even plain cabbage has some protein, and by fermenting it and adding table salt, you've just made MSG. I'm not sure how much, but it's there. And classic Korean recipes add additional ingredents to kimchi, which one web site called "flavor enhancers." The classic "flavor enhancer" is fish sauce. We know there is plenty of MSG is fish sauce. You can say what you want about many recipes for kimchi not calling for the addition of powerded MSG, but the kimchi manufacturing process and classic ingredents add MSG.

I don't add mashed potatos to my stir frys or my tofu soup. Koreans do both with kimchi.

[mjs]

You're so right, Todd36.

And the fact that the original poster implied that many other NY Korean restaurants used MSG leads me then to believe that NY Korean restaurants must be much worse than what I'm used to here in Southern California. 

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Uhh, I can't comment on the MSG except to note that I'm very sensitive to MSG in bad Chinese food (fortunately haven't had any recently) but haven't noticed it much in Korean restaurants in NY.

I've only been to a couple of Korean places in S. Cal but, I wouldn't generalize about the quality of NY Korean. I've been to many of the restaurants in Koreatown as well as a handful in New Jersey. I've also been to Seoul many times. The overall quality of Korean food here is quite good. Of course, in Seoul you can find specialty restaurants which don't exist here but for mainstream stuff the better NY restaurants are about as good as typical ones in Seoul.

Regarding Seoul Garden, I've only had the soft tofu there. I went specifically because they had a sign advertising that so I can't comment on the other stuff. I will agree with another poster who recommended Cho Dang Gol for really great tofu dishes.

[jschyun]

mjs, I actually don't think NY Korean restaurants are bad. I have relatives and friends there who are pretty happy. I stupidly let myself be affected by Todd36 who seems to be hell bent on showing that Korean food is chock full of MSG,which is incorrect.

Todd36, for the love of God, let it go. The only reason why i'm even responding is because I fear many people will read your comments and immediately assume you're right about a whole cuisine you barely know.

Even plain cabbage has some protein, and by fermenting it and adding table salt, you've just made MSG. I'm not sure how much, but it's there.

Try looking up kimchi and lactic acid. I'm waiting for those results about MSG amounts in kimchi.

And classic Korean recipes add additional ingredents to kimchi, which one web site called "flavor enhancers." The classic "flavor enhancer" is fish sauce. We know there is plenty of MSG is fish sauce.

Wow, fish sauce is the classic kimchi "flavor enhancer", eh? I guess an expert like you would know, so far be it for me to argue. Wow, maybe you should write a book.

[mascarpone]

I just had a great idea for a thread for top Korean restaurants--

UM-MAH's RECOMMENDED RESTAURANT LIST

Or

LISTEN TO YOUR UM-MAH AND EAT SAM GAE TANG HERE...

Edited October 7, 2004 by mascarpone (log)

[Pan]

Good idea, mascarpone.

Folks, let's not get too far off topic here. The topic here is Seoul Garden Restaurant. By all means, continue your discussions about kimchi and MSG, but please put the continuation on the "Elsewhere in Asia/Pacific" forum, and feel free to post a link here. Thanks a lot.

[mascarpone]

Thanks very much for the information everyone. I always appreciate lively discussion/debate.

[Pan]

mascarpone and I had dinner at Seoul Garden tonight. It was my first time there. I don't remember the exact names of the things we had, and we shared a bottle of soju, so I'm feeling kind of mellow, but the food was very good. We shared a bunch of barbecued stuff - galbi, pork, chicken, a big onion, mushroom slices, and accompaniments; a bunch of stuff for banchan; a pleasant cold beef broth soup with sort of gelatinous-textured thin noodles and slices of cucumber, nashi, and daikon; and a jigae with tofu, beef, and a fairly powerful chili bite. I really liked the meal and look forward to coming repeatedly and exploring different menu items. The total cost before tip was $66, which for that amount of food was quite a fair value.

[cchen]

I agree. Seoul Garden is pretty good. Their seafood pancake is the best I've ever had.

[Pan]

One of the things I really liked about tonight's dinner is that pieces of vegetable pa-jun were one of the banchan items. You usually have to pay for pa-jun. And these had plenty of vinegar in the batter (and maybe something fermented), so they were unusually tasty.

Welcome to eGullet and the New York forum, cchen.

[raji]

I ate there for the first time back in September - once again photographing for a client, therefore I got to try a wide array of their specialties. Is there anywhere else I can post the pictures if posting pictures is disabled on this board?

This will absolutely be my first destintation on 32nd from now on. They have a wide variety of specialties and they were all very delicious... I can write more if I can get these pictures up!