Low and lower carb ways of eating

[NulloModo]

Hmmm, I know this one comes up on the Atkins forums a lot, I had no idea there were so many people averse to eggs. (personally, I love eggs, I could eat them three meals a day).

As far as egg-free breakfasts go though:

Tomato, onion, garlic, EVOO, some rosemary put under a broiler till they start to carmelize, pull it out, add some fresh basil, a slice or prosciutto, and maybe a bit of parmesan, toss it back under till it gets bubbly. I love that stuff.

Low-carb rolls with peanut butter or low-carb preserves (just be careful of which rolls and preserves you go with, some cause major stalls, some seem to be fine, my personal favorite rolls are the O'So'Lo brand, great taste, cheap, good texture, and made entirely from flax/protein, no wheat flour in them at all to mess things up).

I have been working on perfecting a Bran muffin recipe that should be very low carb, right now they are still coming out too dry though, I will try again this weekend maybe adding some cream cheese to the batter to see if that helps keep them moist, if anyone knows the secret to perfect bran muffins though, let me know.

Some mornings I just eat leftovers from the night before, so waking up to cold buffalo wings, a chunk of italian sausage in peppers and onions, or a bowl of chili isn't unheard of ;).

[scott123]

  Regarding Ketosis:

        It is my understanding that South Beach does not keep one in ketosis, and neither does Montignac, and both seem to be plans some people lose weight on.  I think you can realize some of the benefits of a low-carb plan witout the ketogenic state being induced, such as more controlled blood sugar, less cravings, and at least really thinking about what you are eating, cutting out snacking on junk food, etc.  There have been a lot of studies about the effects of ketosis though, and while so far the view is that there is no harm for your body to be in it, even for very long periods of time, that it can cause issues for some people who already have known kidney/gall-bladder issues.  For those who have healthy internal organs though, no dangers or risks have been shown, everything continues to work the way it should with no undue stress.

Show me a non-ketogenic diet that places fat in a valued prominent position. A diet like that does not exist. Without the metabolic advantage gained from ketosis (or an initial state of ketosis acheived in South Beach), losing weight becomes a calories expended vs. calories consumed game. Because fat is so calorie dense, it's almost impossible to control calories without controlling fat.

Is this a low carb/low fat cooking thread? Because that's what you're including when you reach out to semi-low carb/hybrid diets like Sugarbusters and Montignac, that have, to my perception, mixed feelings about fat.

Ketosis is the magical key that unlocks the door to the culinary wonders of fat. Fat rules. I have grown to associate low carb diets with a celebration of lipids. Is this perception off?

[therese]

"We're at Hooters! What can I eat?"

Hooters serves food?

[NulloModo]

There is no doubt that the various low-carb plans have differing opinions on fat, that is true. I personally meant this thread to be open for discussion of any low-carb cooking though, not just Atkins or South Beach or Sugarbusters, but any plan, even home-brewed ones. Maybe it would be a good idea if we let each other know which plan each recipe/dish is designed for, but other than that, this could be great for just sharing ideas, and even if recipes won't translate exactly, with a little substitution here and there (and hey, we have already become pros at that) and LC recipe should work on almost any LC plan.

I fully admit to cooking with lots of fat, and lots of types of fat. I agree that fats can be very healthy, and I have the good cholesterol/blood preassure profiles to prove it now, despite eating red meat, butter, peanut oil, and the like regularly over the past year. Then again, that might not work for everyone. I don't want to get into a situation where we are saying one plan is 'better' or 'healthier' or 'more effective' than the others, because for each person, they may or may not be. Everyones physiology is slightly different, we all lose/gain weight differently, react to different foods, and can live with different eating regimes. Let's just keep it open minded and share ideas. After all, who knows, maybe someone on Sugarbusters has the secret that will unlock the perfect Atkins friendly tortilla chip recipe, or maybe someone on Atkins knows something that could translate into perfect South Beach friendly biscuits.

[therese]

Ketosis is the magical key that unlocks the door to the culinary wonders of fat. Fat rules. I have grown to associate low carb diets with a celebration of lipids. Is this perception off?

I don't think your perception is off, scott123, but the idea of deliberately putting oneself into ketosis is very counter-intuitive. Yes, it results in weight loss, but then so does cancer.

My husband (who is not particularly overweight to begin with) did Atkins a couple of years ago with the permission (though not on the recommendation) of his physician. One of the reasons he wanted to try it was his blood lipid profile, which is very abnormal though not in a way that necessarily puts him at high risk for cardiac disease.

He had no difficulty sticking to the diet, despite having to go very very very low carb to make himself ketotic, as he'd be perfectly happy living on a diet comprised solely of pork chops and butter. And he did lose weight rapidly.

But he felt like crap pretty much the whole time, and had particularly difficulty exercising or doing heavy physical work, and at the end of three months his lipids had skyrocketed. He went off the diet, felt better within a week, and his blood lipids had returned to baseline at his next doctor's visit a few months later.

My overall impression of Atkins is that it's something that I'd consider if I were morbidly obese and needed an extreme solution before things got worse, along the lines of gastric by-pass or one of those protein shake diets.

[NulloModo]

Therese -

That is interesting, but I am curious what types of things your husband was eating while he was trying it out? (And I am trying to sort of bring this back on topic ;) ). Atkins does not specify which fats are good and bad for the plan, so you have a lot of choice, but I guess you can also make unhealthy decisions within the limits as well.

The blood lipids spike at around three months is not unexpected, nor uncommon. Most people do experience a cholesterol rise (sometimes dramatic) in the first few months until their body's adjust to the new way they are processing food, then things return to normal. In fact, inside of the book in which he explain the plan, Dr. Atkins recommended having your lipids checked before you started, and then not again until six months later, giving your body a chance to adjust, as after that initial spike, what happens for most people (although unfortunately not all) is that they levels go back down far below their original ones, and stabilize in the healthy range. Although that he was very tired all the time is also interesting, it is common to have a several day period in the beginning where you will feel sickly and tired, but that should only last a couple days, never more than a week, and after that the energy levels are supposed to skyrocket, and that is the experience that I had. all of this is why I am really interested in what he was eating, wondering what could've caused all that...

Anyway-

Breakfast today (since we were discussing breakfast a bit upthread) was a liverwurst sandwhich. Specifically, flax/pump roll, liverwurst, provolone, mayo, mustard, and a fried egg. Hehe, not exactly light eating for breakfast, but lunch will be fairly light today (school cafeteria salad, I was out and about last night and didn't cook something to pack). Plus, I personally feel far better all day if I start the day off with a nice filling meal, and then make lunch/dinner a little bit lighter. I have also been on a huge liverwurst kick lately, not sure when that is going to end.

[helenjp]

sugarbusters forbids red wine

Nope, but they have this annoying clause about moderation

About job's tears, coix lacryma-jobi, known in Japanese as hato-mugi (pigeon's barley). Used in CHinese and Indian cooking too, I believe. They don't disintegrate on cooking and actually stand up to freezing better than some grains, so I like to toss them into soups and stews - they absorb flavors nicely, though possibly the most boring grain known to man eaten alone. I lose more weight if I stick to sweet potatoes and job's tears than if I eat whole wheat bread and brown rice.

cooking job's tears and other whole grains

photo of job's tears

Low-carb in Japan...it's just coming back into focus now. A sugarbusters-style plan known as the "Low Insulin Diet" was popular a couple of years back, advocating replacing white bread and rice with brown, but whole wheat bread is impossible to buy here, most people HATE brown rice, and the book skirted round the issue of smaller portions of starchy foods. However, it did produce a stack of GI charts for Japanese foods, and also gave alternatives to the increasing sweetness of "sweet-salty" Japanese food. For example, I make my own umeboshi (salted plums) and now can't eat the supermarket type, because they are too sweet - when did it become OK for a famously sour food to be made sweet?!

Sweet drinks are becoming very popular here, and I see bloated fat kids and adults around these days - never saw that particular kind of fat when I first came to Japan 25 years ago (I've spent almost all my adult life here).

Another funny quirk is that not only do you lose weight faster if you stay away from added sugar, you seem to lose weight faster if you eat sour foods - yogurt, lemon juice/vinegar used as a seasoning or condiment, sour pickles, sourdough, etc. I'm puzzled over this, but it isn't just hearsay, it's my experience too.

Scott 123, I think that Sugarbusters revised book is guilty of trying to please everybody, and is inconsistent on the fat issue. The original book talked about moderate fat in quite generous terms, and simply advised people to use more vegetable oils and less saturated fat, but now some people seem to be trying to keep fat AND carbs ultra-low, which is just hard to do.

However, if I eat Atkins induction style, I get pain...I just have to back off. Drinking more water always helps, and I think it should be emphasized more in the moderately low-carb plans.

The benefits you describe are definitely there, though - I have two jobs plus a demanding extended family, and until I changed my eating, I didn't have enough energy to get through the day. Depression vanished, colds and rashes disappeared - it works for me!

Disliking eggs...a good breakfast is definitely key to low-carb eating, so I eat a bit more than I really want to, but stick to lighter things such as fish, canned fish, yogurt cheese grilled on whole-wheat toast drizzled with a little olive oil and herbs, and add nuts and seeds to my yogurt and fruit rather than hoeing into an egg. Soy burgers are nice for breakfast too.

Curd rice as described over on the Indian forum is also great for moderately low-carb plans and a wonderful non-sweet breakfast.

I imagine South Beach is similar (anybody?) in emphasizing vegetables at every meal - that is the hardest thing for me to carry out, because I have a cooked breakfast for 4 people plus several lunchboxes (also cooked dishes) to prepare before leaving for work. Bean salads with plenty of other vegetables keep overnight in the fridge - any other hints welcome.

[helenjp]

Talking of physiology affecting diet, I notice that one of my sons instinctively eats less carbohydrate and more vegetables and protein. That must be what he needs, because starchy food makes him put on weight, but never affects his rice-guzzling brother!

Sour foods...fish panfried with curry spices or garlic, then doused in vinegar and finished on a high heat. Works extra well with butterflied fresh sardines.

[FL Heat]

South Beach doesn't emphasize vegetables at every meal, but it's pretty firm on getting vegetables into your diet.

Lunches work like this:

As soon as the dinner dishes are done, I start packing lunch.

First, a big salad (greens of whatever I have). Add tomatoes, some kind of protein (cheese, leftovers meat from dinner, or both). Sometimes cucumbers, onions, bell peppers (again, depends on what we had for dinner and how much stuff I feel like chopping).

Then I make a vinaigrette for the salad, olive oil, vinegar, and whatever else might taste good on the salad.

Then a vegetable salad of some sort. . .lately, because he really likes it, it's cucumbers, tomatoes, feta cheese, olive oil, red wine vinegar, and oregano. Black bean salad is my favorite (black beans, feta, green onions, garlic, lemon juice, olive oil).

Then a meat dish--on Sundays, the boyfriend grills up a mess of small steaks (petite sirloins for the most part) and white-meat chicken-based sausages that we get at the meat market. If I know he'll be at work for a long time, I'll add some deli meat and cheese to a whole wheat pita and include that in his lunch (he is gone for up to and over 12 hours some days). Key for his weight loss is not needing to go to the vending machines, so I'll overpack his lunch before I'll underpack it. A small container of chili or a vegetable soup goes in, too.

Then a snack of some sort--almonds, walnuts, pecans, cheese. And yogurt.

That's his lunch. Mine is more like. . .salad, Wasa rye crackers with cheese, and yogurt. Part of my issue with weight loss, admittedly, is getting in enough calories in the day, which was easier for a while, but has been a problem again lately.

Diana

[therese]

That is interesting, but I am curious what types of things your husband was eating while he was trying it out? (And I am trying to sort of bring this back on topic ;) ). Atkins does not specify which fats are good and bad for the plan, so you have a lot of choice, but I guess you can also make unhealthy decisions within the limits as well.

Well, I was doing the cooking, so at home he was getting the usual sorts of meats and fish that I make (varied, everything from flank steak to lamb to chicken to whatever) along with green vegetables and salads. I use olive oil pretty much exclusivly when I cook. At work whatever worked, I suppose. He did manage to make himself ketotic, just barely, so was doing the diet "correctly".

He did point out that he felt that one of the ways Atkins works is that the food's so boring that you can't bring yourself to eat any more of it than you absolutely have to.

It seems to work well for many people, we're just not among them.

[NulloModo]

That is interesting, but I am curious what types of things your husband was eating while he was trying it out? (And I am trying to sort of bring this back on topic ;) ). Atkins does not specify which fats are good and bad for the plan, so you have a lot of choice, but I guess you can also make unhealthy decisions within the limits as well.

Well, I was doing the cooking, so at home he was getting the usual sorts of meats and fish that I make (varied, everything from flank steak to lamb to chicken to whatever) along with green vegetables and salads. I use olive oil pretty much exclusivly when I cook. At work whatever worked, I suppose. He did manage to make himself ketotic, just barely, so was doing the diet "correctly".

He did point out that he felt that one of the ways Atkins works is that the food's so boring that you can't bring yourself to eat any more of it than you absolutely have to.

It seems to work well for many people, we're just not among them.

Hmm, sounds interesting. Were you by any chance relying on any of those low-carb convenience products during the beginning? Like the low-carb breads, milks, ice creams, etc?

It is odd how it works very well for some, and not at all for others, but then again, low-fat/low-cal seems to be the same way. I will say that the food is anything but boring though, I'd put Atkins menus against any other weight loss plans as far as potential variety and taste go, but then again, that is what this thread is about, to really show each other what we can do ;).

[therese]

Were you by any chance relying on any of those low-carb convenience products during the beginning? Like the low-carb breads, milks, ice creams, etc?

Nope. I don't even think they were available at the time. This wasn't a difficult diet for my husband to stick to, as he doesn't like fruit, and rarely eats dessert, and will really pretty much eat whatever he's served or told to eat.

You may well be wondering at this point why he was even on the diet, as he didn't have all that much weight to lose. The answer is that he was interested in seeing what would happen to his lipids. His biggest issue is not cholesterol but triglycerides, and the increase was sufficiently dramatic that his physician (who was taking care of a number of other patients on Atkins, and so familiar with the expected changes) basically ordered him to stop.

It is odd how it works very well for some, and not at all for others, but then again, low-fat/low-cal seems to be the same way. I will say that the food is anything but boring though, I'd put Atkins menus against any other weight loss plans as far as potential variety and taste go, but then again, that is what this thread is about, to really show each other what we can do ;).

Well, I'm presently on the lowest calorie/fat setting that WW uses, and finding it easy to do. But I think that's because I already prefered the sorts of food that figure prominently in this type of diet. Things like prime rib and bacon are great every once in a while, but being told that a diet encourages me to eat all the bacon I'd like leaves me thinking, "Great, but where's all the food?"

[purplewiz]

Marcia, I have to admit that I have a hard time visualizing the benefits one would receive from a reduced carb diet without ketosis.

Ending binging/mood swings, permanent weight loss, improved triglycerides, improved cholesteral, suppressed appetite, increased metabolism, conserved lean body mass...

Actually, that sounds pretty much like what is going on with me -on top of that, I had another chronic medical condition clear up that my doctor had previously told me I was just going to have to learn to live with.

I have a strong suspicion that the amount of carbs a person can eat regularly and maintain the benefits is an intensely individual thing. Part of what makes this process so interesting is changing the intake variables and watching the results to zero in on what's optimal for me.

Low carb is a big umbrella.  And, in your own way, you are under it. Please don't let my zealotry prevent you from sharing your reduced carb cooking experiences with us. I have no doubt that you have something valuable to contribute to this discussion.

Thank you - I also look forward to hearing what you have been cooking and eating! There are so many good things to eat out there which have few to no carbs, and I'm always interested in new ideas and recipes.

Marcia.

[redfox]

I'm not on a low-carb diet myself, but my husband has Type 2 diabetes, so follows a diet that is roughly the same as Sugarbusters. To make matters more adventuresome, we'd both been vegetarians (not vegans, not fish-eaters) for a long time before his diagnosis and don't plan to give that up. At first I thought it would be impossibly difficult to cook under these constraints, but now we've got the hang of it, more or less, and it's working well. We certainly do eat a lot of eggs, though!

For breakfasts we've been finding that some amount of relatively slow-to-digest starch is a good thing, in terms of keeping blood sugar on an even keel through the morning and into lunch. And since we have eggs so often at dinner, and are additionally generally too stupid to cook on weekday mornings, we've developed some other options. One favorite is what we call "breakfast lentils" -- a largeish batch of brown lentils, roughly chopped roasted peanuts (legumes one and all!), crispy fried onions (I buy jars of a Thai brand that's just onions, oil, and salt, for laziness), salt, and pepper. Sometimes I also add minced garlic or fenugreek. Those then go in the fridge and are served in a relatively small dose in the morning with a blob of yogurt, some olive oil, and a garnish. Sometimes it's more of the onions, sometimes cherry tomatoes, sometimes some herbs. We like them a lot, and they're wonderfully mindless in the morning.

[NulloModo]

Redfox, that sounds delicious, I will have to try that once I am into the Atkins maintenance stage.

Everyone keeps talking about these fried onions, I love onions, especially crispy ones, I am going to have to go to an Asian grocer soon as see if I can find them....

[Katherine]

I've read of a couple of studies that analyzed the ketosis aspect of the Atkins diet and determined that it was pretty much irrelevant to weight loss. Results from similar low-carb diets that do not share this component are essentially the same.

[redfox]

Everyone keeps talking about these fried onions, I love onions, especially crispy ones, I am going to have to go to an Asian grocer soon as see if I can find them....

←

Yes, they are great! They aren't entirely carb-free, of course, being onions, but I don't think they're too bad, and they are so much crispier than any I've ever been able to make at home. They're also great with green beans or spinach.

[saffron]

I like to make a seafood "pasta" with marinara sauce or a heavily herbed olive oil. But for noodles, I use zuchinni that I've run through a food processor or mandolin. Lots of garlic, shrimp, scallops, low glycemic veg and asiago and we have ourselves an absolute pasta craving fulfilled!

[tanabutler]

Low Carb Living magazine: anyone seen it?

[NulloModo]

Saffron -

That sounds good, sort of a spin on the Spaghetti Squash trick. I have been happy with Shirataki noodles the couple times I have tried, and they seme like they would match up very well with seafood.

[FL Heat]

In an effort to make crowd-pleasing-yet-still-South-Beach-Phase-2 food during the hurricane, we had what have now been crowned "South Beach Pizzas".

Whole-wheat pitas (the mini size), brushed with olive oil & sprinkled with herbs, set on a pizza stone in a 400 oven for about 10 minutes (or until they were nice & crispy.

Then topped with tomato sauce (no sugar added) and some low-fat, some full-fat cheese, and turkey pepperoni, as well as a hodgepodge of vegetables, then cooked on a cookie sheet until the cheese was nice & gooey.

Very easy, inexpensive, and tasty.

Diana

[NulloModo]

That sounds good. Tonight I am going to make a leftover soup with some smoked chicken parts my father pawned off on me the last time I dropped by.

I'm thinking of shredding a thigh/leg quarter, using a can of chicken broth, some chives, a bit of crushed red pepper, maybe some onion, and a dash or two or fish sauce. MAybe I will do a little egg drop in there too, anything else that might be good in this?

[helenjp]

Just remembered two ways to keep vegetables on the menu when time is short.

1) Marinaded salads of cooked vegetables - Boiled or grilled vegetables dropped hot into a vinaigrette-based marinade, garlic, spices, herbs etc to your taste.

2) Japanese marinades, deepfried, grilled, or sometimes boiled vegetables dropped hot into a marinade of soy sauce and vinegar, 1:1 or 1:2. Add hot mustard or shreds of dried chili as you like.

[NulloModo]

Helen those sound good, I can't even remember the last time I've had marinated grilled veggies, definately something to toss onto the list now.

I actually tend to eat less vegetables at home as the week goes on. I am spoiled by my farmer's market, and since it is only open on weekends, I tend to eat tons of vegetables during the couple days I canbring them home, and then work my way through the rest until it opens again. I always find it hard to bring myself to buy most grocery store produce however, unless it is something that is pretty much tasteless to begin with (like celery, gotta have that around for the wings...).

[helenjp]

Forgot to mention that the whole point of marinading them is that they will keep in the fridge for at least a few days. should stretch your farmer's mart treasures a bit longer.