canning jars

[amccomb]

I ordered two sets of jars at Sur La Table. The description says, "The one-part lids seal securely and are interchangeable with standard American lids." I just wasn't sure if they would work like the ring and seal mason jar lids, so I bought some to use instead, and they don't fit. So, I was wondering - is it safe to use these one piece lids? It looks like there is a seal, but it's not the usual reddish orange color, instead it's white. It also looks like it has the domed top that will pop, but it's hard to tell.

Any ideas?

[foolcontrol]

It is absolutely safe. They are designed for canning. Just make sure that the jars are clean and the ingredients are hot when you put the lids on. You will be able to check the seal the day after canning. When pushing the middle of the lid there should be no movement. It should be firm.

[bentherebfor]

Warning.......stupid question to follow:

Why do you need such a precise technique for canning?

I mean....as long as the lid is on tightly......everything will be okay right? I'm clearly wrong on that thought.....but I dont understand why?

Furthermore....what is proper technique with mason jars?

[Suzanne F]

The reasons for the precision is: you don't want to poison people, or have your food go bad. I've never yet had either happen (at least the food hasn't gone bad while the jar was still sealed; only after it's been opened and got contaminated with other stuff.)

You see, there's canning and there's CANNING. The first -- what I do -- is just packing stuff in the jars, letting it cool so the lids seal, and then storing the jars in the fridge; I do this with jams, chutneys, caramelized onions, etc. CANNING involves packing the jars, putting on the lids, and then processing the filled jars in a boiling-water bath or in a pressure cooker to kill any unwanted organisms; then you can store the stuff in the cupboard. How long you process the jar depends on what's in it, especially how acidic the food is. In both cases, the jars and lids should be sterilized in boiling water before you fill them with the food.

Many all-purpose cookbooks have instructions for canning; Joy of Cooking, Fannie Farmer and such.

(edited because I finally read the actual question asked. )

Edited August 28, 2004 by Suzanne F (log)

[bentherebfor]

Thankyou for the help

[Susan G]

How long you process the jar depends on what's in it, especially how acidic the food is.

It's also altitude-dependent: I live at 6,000' and have to boil my filled jars extra long to get rid of the bacteria.

[sparrowgrass]

The Ball Blue Book is the ultimate authority for canning--put out by the makers of Ball jars and lids, and using USDA specifications. I work for U. of Missouri Extension, and the Ball Blue Book is our source of information when folks ask us questions.

Botulism is possible in foods improperly canned. It can survive boiling and the lack of oxygen in the jars, and even a tiny taste of improperly canned food can kill you.

If you are interested in canning, your local extension office will have material to help you.

Those canning jars are pretty, but way more expensive than Ball or Kerr jars from the supermarket or WalMart.

[amccomb]

Wow. If botulism survives boiling and no oxygen, how can you kill it? I thought I was doing ok by sterilizing the jars and all utensils in the sani-wash cycle in the dishwasher, then boiling the jam for 20 minutes, then processing the jars of sealed jam in a water bath for 5-10 minutes. Do I need to be doing more than this? Can you tell if a jar has been infected with botulism? I was planning on giving these out as gifts, but I don't want to kill off my entire family.

I was really enjoying myself, but now I'm not so sure...

Edited to add that I have been using the Ball lids and rings so far...

Edited August 29, 2004 by amccomb (log)

[Wendy DeBord]

I'm not sure what you mean by how can it kill you? It does (more to young and old or ill then healthy adults).......... and it does survive with-out oxygen and you can't taste it or smell it.

You should be following a chart for how long you need to boil/can different items. The acid and the thickness of the item effects the timing. You really should get a book on the topic if your interested in canning (theres probably a free source online that contains the same info. check into 'ball' brand).

Each method of canning also requires a different time. For instance, a cold packed can verses a hot packed can.

I normally wash my jars in the dishwasher then right before I'm ready to can I stick them in my boiling pot of water for a few minutes before I fill them. My husband and I work together as a team canning. He mans the jars and lids-taking them out of the steralizing water, I fill them, stick a spoon in them to release any air, wipe the lids and screw on the tops, he then picks it up and puts them in the boiling h20. You begin timing after the whole pot has returned to a rapid boil.

Canning is a science, what you put into your cans is an art....so you need to know your science to do this correctly.

[amccomb]

I thought I asked how you can kill IT, meaning botulism. I must have mis-typed, I apologize.

I have read several books (Putting Food By, Mes Confitures, Fine Preserving, A Passion For Preserves, Small Batch Preserving) and have read several online sites, such as the Ball website, www.homecanning.com, and have been following recipes and charts for times, etc. I have been sterilizing everything I am using, and doing the water bath that is recommended for each jam. What I was wondering is, if I am doing everything, and it (botulism) survives high heat, etc, then is canned food ever really safe?

Is there any way to tell if a jar has been affected? Will the lid expand or leak? Will the jam turn color? Something else?

[Wendy DeBord]

Ah, I mis-understood, glad to read your following times, etc....sorry.

Good follow up questions! I don't know the anwers-it will be interesting to find out. In my food sanitation class they didn't mention anyway you can tell before getting sick other then avoid eating anything that could be questionable. It might vary from state to state but I believe you can't sell canned goods with-out a specific license/regulations..........as in restaurants can't just pop their product in cans and sell them willy nilly.

Wasn't it bulging metal cans and or cans that were dented people worried about years ago? Todays commerical canning must be much improved from older methods. But I remember my Mom and Grandmother avoiding dented cans.

BUT home canning......my best guess is you can never be absolutely certain. Don't some of the books and info. give you a warning to that effect? Isn't that a part of needing enough acid to can veg. properly and why you can't can meats?

[sparrowgrass]

Wow. If botulism survives boiling and no oxygen, how can you kill it? I thought I was doing ok by sterilizing the jars and all utensils in the sani-wash cycle in the dishwasher, then boiling the jam for 20 minutes, then processing the jars of sealed jam in a water bath for 5-10 minutes. Do I need to be doing more than this? Can you tell if a jar has been infected with botulism? I was planning on giving these out as gifts, but I don't want to kill off my entire family.

I was really enjoying myself, but now I'm not so sure...

Edited to add that I have been using the Ball lids and rings so far...

You are making jam--you are ok. Botulism can't survive in high acid or high sugar mixtures, so don't worry. You are doing everything right.

Botulism is a problem in things without sugar or acid, like green beans or corn or meat.

Botulism can survive boiling, but only for a while--that is why you must process low acid stuff in a pressure cooker (higher pressure means boiling water gets hotter than 212) for the stated amount of time, which varies with product being processed, jar size and altitude.

If you (or anybody else) have any canning questions, PM me--I will look up the answers at work, or call our home economist if it is something more complex.

Your family will love your jam--go, therefore, and make more.

[sparrowgrass]

I fill them, stick a spoon in them to release any air, wipe the lids and screw on the tops.

You might want to use a wooden spoon for this step. Even a tiny scratch or chip from a metal utensil can cause jars to break in the canner.

Web sites:

Ball Jars

U of MO Extension Publications, Food preservation.

[Wendy DeBord]

Sparrowgrass, thanks!

I never knew a pressure canner could make water hotter then 212..........I always wondered what the advantage of a pressure cooker was over a water bath. Good to know!!

Is the botulism entering the jar on the product (then your making sure to kill it thru canning) or being formed on it's own because of a ripe atmopshere for it?

P.S. I do use a wooden spoon.

[sparrowgrass]

The word botulism describes a type of poisoning. A strain of bacteria called Clostridium botulinum creates a protein called botulin, and this protein is the cause of botulism.

Botulism spores are on the fruit or veggies. They are tough, so just washing or cooking doesn't kill them. The spores are not what hurts you--it is the toxin that develops as they multiply. Stomach acid and good bacteria in the intestines kill them, so you don't die from eating botulism spores themselves.

This doesn't hold true for babies--they can get botulism from honey, apparently because their immature systems don't have the bacteria necessary to get rid of the spores.

That botulin protein is denatured (made harmless) by boiling in an open kettle, so an infected jar of beans could be made safe that way, but because the toxin is so deadly, a splatter on the counter or the residue in the jar is very dangerous.

Open kettle canning, where food is boiled and then put in jars which are sealed is dangerous because the spores float in the air, and may contaminate the food as it is being canned.