Gourmet vs. Gourmand

[wnissen]

I don't really have access to great French or English dictionaries, so I was wondering whether gourmet and gourmand have come to mean the same thing in French as well as in English. Specifically, would a literal translation of "L'Ecole des Trois Gourmandes" be "The School of the Three Gluttons"? Or would it be more appropriate to keep gourmand as a legitimate word in English?

Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

Edit to close my dang tags.

Edited August 13, 2004 by wnissen (log)

[rickmartin]

Gourmand is someone who consumes to excess. Or yes, a glutton.

RM

[Gifted Gourmet]

an interesting discussion : Poilane's letter to the Pope

The true gourmand does not eat for eating’s sake. Rather, he values quality over quantity. He knows when to stop, and more often than not he regards the communal activity of eating with friends as an essential part of his gourmandise.

and this, too, is related to your inquiry:

A Gourmet is someone who prefers a small, exquisitely- prepared dish to a less-artistic but filling meal; a Gourmand is just the opposite

[Bux]

I think the connotations of those words have changed over the years. Frequently epicure is offered as a synonym for gourmet and glutton for gourmand. I suppose those meanings are worth noting if you intend to call someone either of those terms, but I find all four of those words misleading. As long as I've been old enough to use the word "gourmet," there's been a hint or more of pretension in it. All one has to do is go to the "gourmet" aisles of the supermarket or look at the products advertised for "gourmets" to find finicky over processed foods of great pretense. Of the two, I'd prefer to be called a gourmand, personally. On the whole, I prefer to use the term "gastronome" as an adjective for those I think have a serious appreciation for and devotion to good food. I'll add that I hesitated when choosing between "fine food" and "good food." They both mean the same thing to me, but only sort of.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Read everything you can get your hands on by or about A.J. Liebling. He would probably be considered a gourmand. He did not have pretentions that qualify him as a gourmet by today's standards. He loved good food, preferably in ample quantities, especially when paid for by friends and probably enjoyed levels of quality that we, sadly, envy today.

[Bux]

Read everything you can get your hands on by or about A.J. Liebling.

Everything? If I read everything, I might feel like a glutton. If I just read his best work, I'd be an epicure. No?

I wonder if a distiction could be made that a gourmet will only eat what is judged to good, while a gourmand is still willing to go the proper exploratory work. Perhaps we need to coin the word "gastronaut" to describe eGullet members.

[Carrot Top]

From the current American Heritage dictionary comes this note after the definitions of 'gourmand' and 'gourmet':

Useage note...A gourmet is a person with discriminating taste in food and wine, as is a gourmand. Because gourmand can also mean "one who enjoys food in great quantities" or even 'a gluttinous eater', care should be taken to make clear its intended sense.

I also have the feeling that the meanings of these words may have changed over time...but I think my original sense of the difference between the two words was gained either from MFK Fisher or Brillat-Savarin, and most likely the latter...but I no longer have a copy of Physiologie du Gout to double-check what it defines these terms as meaning....but I have a strong feeling there is a discussion of the terms therein....

[Margaret Pilgrim]

I wonder if a distiction could be made that a gourmet will only eat what is judged to good, while a gourmand is still willing to go the proper exploratory work. Perhaps we need to coin the word "gastronaut" to describe eGullet members.

A delicious proposal!

[Felice]

Here's what my Robert French dictionary says for gourmand and gourmet

Gourmand, Gourmande: 1. Oui aime la bonne nourriture, mange par plaisir. Elle est gourmande. (so one who likes good food and eats for pleasure). They give the synonyms gastronome and gourmet.

2. avid--qui a un desir immodere de nourriture--glutton, vorace

3. oui exige trop d'argent dans une affaire. (one who desires too much money)

Gourmet: Personne qui sait apprecier le raffinement en matiere de boire et de manger. One who knows how to appreciate the refinement in matters of drinking and eating.

So it seems that one can be a gourmand without being a gourmet.

[Bux]

So it seems that one can be a gourmand without being a gourmet.

Yet, gourmet is given as a symonym for gourmand. Thus, as Carrot top has already suggested, the term "gourmand" is not clear unless put in context.

[tony h]

I always thought one was passionate about both food & wine while the other was just focussed on food. Don't which is which 'though.

[alexhills]

brillat-savarin has a whole hierarchy of gastronomy i seem to remember - i too don't have a copy to hand - which i think features gourmand as the pinnacle and glutton as the pitiful bottom of the pile. there is also a hilarious section on how to recognize gourmands by their physical characteristics - other than being fat that is - and his favoured, in his view rare, species, the female gourmand, who he praises for flirtatiousness...

[Carrot Top]

brillat-savarin has a whole hierarchy of gastronomy i seem to remember - i too don't have a copy to hand - which i think features gourmand as the pinnacle and glutton as the pitiful bottom of the pile. there is also a hilarious section on how to recognize gourmands by their physical characteristics - other than being fat that is - and his favoured, in his view rare, species, the female gourmand, who he praises for flirtatiousness...

...one line seems to come from the far reaches of my memory from Brillat-Savarin on the subject..."a gourmand is a being whom is pleasing to heaven"....

[Jonathan Day]

In French the Seven Deadly Sins are orgueil (pride), envie (envy), colère (wrath), acédie (sloth), avarice (greed or avarice), luxure (lust) and ... gourmandise (gluttony).

I believe there's a movement seeking to have the last of these declassified.

[DRColby]

I wonder what A.J. Liebling would think the difference was?

Dave

[pannix]

I remember a quote from my school days in Switzerland, but I cannot remember who to attribute the quote to. The quote goes something like this-A gourmand is someone who digs his grave with spoon and a gourmet digs his with a fork.  Anyone know the author?

 

[Panaderia Canadiense]

I've always used Monty Python as my defining line.  A gourmet is someone who knows what's going on with food and has definite preferences for quality, but doesn't overindulge.  Mr. Creosote, on the other hand, is a gourmand.

[gfweb]

Gourmand is another of those words that's losing real meaning by frequent misuse. Same thing has happened to "notorious" which used to mean infamous, and "reactionary " which does not mean something done in reaction no matter how many times the media and politicians screw it up.

[liuzhou]

According to the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) 'gourmet' means "A connoisseur in the delicacies of the table."

 

For 'gourmand' it gives the definition :

 

"One who is over-fond of eating, one who eats greedily or to excess, a glutton."

 

But also notes that it can mean "One who is fond of delicate fare; a judge of good eating" but notes that In this sense it is only "partially anglicized". This usage they date back to 1758, so it is nothing new.

Edited July 5, 2015 by liuzhou (log)

[rotuts]

nice Monty ref.  thanks.