Mayhaw Man gets Mad

[Mayhaw Man]

Well, what I am looking for in the rest of the house is "well used pine".

Ani and Jude Woods atAlbany Woodworks can help you out. THey ship this stuff all over the world. It is not the cheapest, but now that I think about it, #2 pine planking is going for $7.50 US for a 6X10, so the prices look a hell of a lot better for finished, ready to nail flooring.

[Blondie]

Best of luck, Brooks. I'm dying to see how it turns out.

CVT is cool.  Have you considered linoleum?  The good old stuff they used in schools and hospitals?  One brand name you can look for is Marmoleum.  Terrific stuff, and practically indestructible.  We have 2 kids and two Jack Russel Terriers and it looks as good as the day we put it in.

Coincidentally I got an updated set of Marmoleum sample books yesterday and some of the colors are absolutely stunning. I've been up to my ears in VCT samples as well, and they don't hold a candle to Marmoleum on purely aesthetic grounds.

Edited July 27, 2004 by Blondie (log)

[Marlene]

You can get linoleum and cork floors that look like wood these days. We opted for wood, and love it. Although we used Beech, and I find it's a little softer than I would have liked. And if you have pets, yes, their claws will scratch a wood floor. Also, our kitchen has a huge sunroom with lots of windows, so there is some fading that takes place of the floor itself. I have runners in the areas that I stand at a lot, both for the cushioning and in case of spills. We also went with prefinished wood, which saved about 3 weeks worth of sanding, staining and dust. Linoleum or CVT are both easy on the feet and the back if you are standing and prepping for a long time. Tile sucks for this purpose.

[robyn]

Yet, the most efficient kitchens I design are the small ones.  No room for wasted space I suppose.

It's not only that. While those huge kitchens with the 4 separate food prep areas spread across an area the size of a half basketball court may look great - how do you get the 12 quarts of boiling water to the sink to drain the pasta? Very carefully I suppose .

At the restaurant where I eat most of the time at home - there's just a typical "line" - maybe 20 feet long and 12 feet wide - with a small "L" for the pastry chef. The "line" makes sense in a restaurant. I find that the traditional triangle works well when I'm the only cook. Robyn

[robyn]

To add another issue - what are you doing for a sink?  The best decision I made, with eG input, was to go with a large single bowl sink.  I have a Franke with Chicago faucets/ wrist blade handles.  Really big, really deep - contractor said he did not realize that they now made bathtubs for kitchens!  I am thankful for that decision every day.

I second the motion for the large single bowl sink (I have one - with an integrated drain board). Very functional. Robyn

[robyn]

CVT is cool.  Have you considered linoleum?  The good old stuff they used in schools and hospitals?  One brand name you can look for is Marmoleum.  Terrific stuff, and practically indestructible.  We have 2 kids and two Jack Russel Terriers and it looks as good as the day we put it in.

I had CVT in my last kitchen and the one before it and loved it. I'd keep in mind that some CVT has to be cleaned with a rotary commercial cleaning machine (which really isn't practical in a home environment).

I have marmoleum in our current kitchen. Don't like it as much as the CVT because it scratches more easily. We don't have kids - or a dog - but when my FIL walked across it with his walker once - it made a deep scratch from one end to the other - luckily I got most of the scratch out by stripping the floor and rewaxing it. Sharp high heels also leave marks (luckily I don't wear them but once in a blue moon).

What kind of regular and occasional things do you do to clean/maintain the marmoleum? Perhaps I haven't been handling it correctly.

I will note that the stuff is great on your legs - and - since ours is black with some subtle markings - you can drop a lot of your meal preparation on the floor and never notice that it's dirty . Robyn

[Mayhaw Man]

Alright, I've got a "sinking" feeling that I may be making a poor choice of sinks. Assume that I've got a dishwasher and a " The Grindomanic He Man Model 12000 Disposal" and a garbage can. Why is a single sink better than a double? or a triple with the swell little thing in the middle for a disposal?

This sink is a huge thing. I did not win the one I was bidding on eBay (damn those bidding programs and the people that own them, no matter what it is-if it looks like a real bargain and something that could be resold someone with no job and a computer sweeps in and buys it and about a week later it shows up for resale on eBay ) and am in the market.

I can get huge (you could put one of Varmint's pigs in one of these things) cast iron/porcelain single sinks. Salvage places in New Orleans have them(literally) by the hundreds and there are a ton to choose from.

Convince me and then I will go work on my wife-"She who desires a $1200 Kohler Sink"

[Marlene]

Alright, I've got a "sinking" feeling that I may be making a poor choice of sinks. Assume that I've got a dishwasher and a " The Grindomanic He Man Model 12000 Disposal" and a garbage can. Why is a single sink better than a double? or a triple with the swell little thing in the middle for a disposal?

This sink is a huge thing. I did not win the one I was bidding on eBay (damn those bidding programs and the people that own them, no matter what it is-if it looks like a real bargain and something that could be resold someone with no job and a computer sweeps in and buys it and about a week later it shows up for resale on eBay ) and am in the market.

I can get huge (you could put one of Varmint's pigs in one of these things) cast iron/porcelain single sinks. Salvage places in New Orleans have them(literally) by the hundreds and there are a ton to choose from.

Convince me and then I will go work on my wife-"She who desires a $1200 Kohler Sink"

I have the triple sink with the disposal in the middle. I'd never go single sink. I think our sink was pretty close to $1,100

[Mayhaw Man]

I came so close to getting one with hdwe for $200 bucks. I hate that guy.

[robyn]

Alright, I've got a "sinking" feeling that I may be making a poor choice of sinks. Assume that I've got a dishwasher and a " The Grindomanic He Man Model 12000 Disposal" and a garbage can. Why is a single sink better than a double? or a triple with the swell little thing in the middle for a disposal?

This sink is a huge thing. I did not win the one I was bidding on eBay (damn those bidding programs and the people that own them, no matter what it is-if it looks like a real bargain and something that could be resold someone with no job and a computer sweeps in and buys it and about a week later it shows up for resale on eBay ) and am in the market.

I can get huge (you could put one of Varmint's pigs in one of these things) cast iron/porcelain single sinks. Salvage places in New Orleans have them(literally) by the hundreds and there are a ton to choose from.

Convince me and then I will go work on my wife-"She who desires a $1200 Kohler Sink"  

My sink is an Elkay - 22x16 bowl with integrated drain board. Don't know if this model or something like it is sold now - but I recall it cost about $400 when I bought it. Of course - that was a decade ago - but keep in mind that one never pays list price for plumbing unless one is unwilling to shop around (particularly in small towns - in Jacksonville a decade ago - it was considered "chic" to pay full list price - a point of view I never could quite understand ).

In any event - historically - the 2 bowl sink comes from a time when people washed their dishes in one bowl - and rinsed in the other. If you still do that - perhaps you need a 2 bowl sink. Otherwise - why do you need 2 bowls? You do all your prep in the single sink at the beginning - and throw all the dirty stuff that has to be handwashed in the single sink at the end. In terms of the latter - my single large bowl will hold just about everything - except my largest round platters. Don't have to wash roasting pans one half at a time.

One thing I do have on my wish list for my next kitchen is a small second prep sink with a disposal somewhere not near the main sink. When my husband and I are making big meals - we both do prep work - and it would be nice to have 2 separate sinks where each of us can work - unimpeded by the other.

I'm a big fan of stainless steel sinks (easy to clean - don't chip - last forever) - but they will get lots of little tiny scratches over time. Those in the design biz call it a "patina" - some people just call them scratches . If scratches bother you - then stainless steel isn't right for you.

By the way - July/August is my month for cleaning closets on Ebay. I love the automatic bidding programs. It's great fun watching them during the last 5 minutes of an auction . Robyn

Edited July 27, 2004 by robyn (log)

[Mayhaw Man]

By the way - July/August is my month for cleaning closets on Ebay. I love the automatic bidding programs. It's great fun watching them during the last 5 minutes of an auction . Robyn

I love them too, when I am the seller. When you are the buyer, especially one with a life, you don't have a chance on a bargain on there anymore.

I already have a sink with a second disposal in my island, so I guess maybe this one compartment thing makes some kind of sense-but I'm going to have to think on this a while.

[fifi]

The issue with me and sinks is not so much double or triple. The real issue is the size of at least one sink somewhere. In the house I had one of those big side/little side standard stainless steel sinks and I loved it. Here is what MUST fit for a sink to be useful to me:

Smoker grates

Smoker water pan

Big stock pots

Big roasting pan

Half sheet baking sheets

The big Le Creuset pot

NOTHING fits in this lousy apartment standard double sink.

[Arey]

I guess it goes without saying that you'll have to make sure the flooring goes INTO the dishwasher opening in your new kitchen.

Two years ago I had a new kitchen floor put down. Last year I had to replace my dishwasher. Turns out that dishwashers are standardized when it comes to width, but not when it comes to depth. I could, of course, get new counters, cabinets, and kitchen flooring so the dishwasher fits in nicely, but then the refridgerator, sink and stove wouldn't look right.

[therese]

I love my big sink. Everything from big vases to cookie sheets to the ice cream maker fits in it, no problem. It's also great if I'm entertaining in the kitchen, as I can fit lots of dishes in the sink rather leaving them on the counter (possible with split sinks, of course, but the space is not as flexible, plus the divider takes up a fair amount of space).

I've got a garbarge disposal that's offset to one side of the same big sink. Easier than having it in a separate sink, IMO, as I'd then have to move said item over to the separate sink to rinse food off of it (and probably ding it on that stupid divider en route). Or I could scoop the ick from one side of the sink to the other, or I could...never mind, I think I'll keep this arrangement.

Sinks are expensive. Mine's a Shaw's Original fire clay (I think)---I chose this particular model in part for its looks.

[therese]

I can get huge (you could put one of Varmint's pigs in one of these things) cast iron/porcelain single sinks. Salvage places in New Orleans have them(literally) by the hundreds and there are a ton to choose from.

Get one. Do note that you don't want it disproportionately deep, as you'll be reaching to the bottom of it.

[robyn]

By the way - July/August is my month for cleaning closets on Ebay.  I love the automatic bidding programs.  It's great fun watching them during the last 5 minutes of an auction  .  Robyn

I love them too, when I am the seller. When you are the buyer, especially one with a life, you don't have a chance on a bargain on there anymore.

I already have a sink with a second disposal in my island, so I guess maybe this one compartment thing makes some kind of sense-but I'm going to have to think on this a while.

Give it some thought. All you're getting here is ideas from people (including me) about what they like/don't like in terms of their own personal habits. Maybe there are people whose primary concern in a refrigerator is party platters - but I'm not one of them (I'm trying to get my husband's family to my house for the holidays for the first time in 30 years - to celebrate what is probably his Dad's last holidays - most of the time - my platters are on the small side) . On the other hand - perhaps you are - and have dozens of people over all the time. Think in terms of how you actually live - not how the magazines tell you you *ought* to live. Your goal is to get a kitchen that works for you!

By the way - gotta love that Ebay. Last time I got a new computer - I couldn't even *give away* my old computer to a local school - even though it was totally functional. I sold my old somewhat dysfunctional computer on Ebay last week. Didn't get a huge amount. But I got more than I thought I'd get. And I felt better than begging someone to take it for free (except when I carried it to Office Depot to ship it - it was heavy!). Right now I'm hunting on Ebay to get some of that discontinued Calphalon professional nonstick cookware. Lots of auctions. Robyn

[andiesenji]

I love them too, when I am the seller.   When you are the buyer, especially one with a life, you don't have a chance on a bargain on there anymore.

Here is a little secret thing that has been passed along to me by my daughter, an ebay fanatic!

I am also an ebay enthusiast and am a collector of various things. I have passed it on to others, now it is your turn.

I have used it with fantastic results. They allow you three FREE transactions so you can see how well they work.

They bid for you in the last 5 seconds of an auction. You have to set the price you are willing to pay and be firm about it. They will notify you if you are outbid but I have that checked off because I am only going to pay so much and no more.

Auction Sniper

Enjoy!

Edited July 28, 2004 by andiesenji (log)

[phaelon56]

No polyurethane need apply because at certain intervals you will have to sand down and start over.

Not necessarily. if you finish wood floors with poly it can be buffed down every few years and recoated but ONLY if it is never cleaned with anything other than plain water and perhaps a few drops of dishwasing liquid added in. Most commercial and consumer floor cleaning products (Murphy's Oil Soap is the worst offender!) contain wax compounds. If you buff out a poly coated floor that's been cleaned with any of these products, the recoat will end up getting an orange-peel effect of crazing due to the residual waxes in the surface. One of my colleagues opted to use lacquer for this reason and likes it but I think it's a bit too soft of a surface.

Floor choices were debated at length in varmint's remodeling thread (link is upthread here somewhere). Most people who tried cork said they would not use it again. I love the look, feel and warmth of wood. Tile is great for the coolness of it's a beach house but stuff just breaks so easily if it's droped on tile. Southern yellow pine, heart pine etc. are all good for durability but being here in the Northeast I think maple rocks and it's harder than all get out. My flors are red oak throughout the house including the kitchen but next kitchen I build myself will have maple floors (also worth noting that up here maple is the cheapest wood flooring choice available).

[Rachel Perlow]

As long as we're talking wood floors (but not specifically in reference to MM's floor), I've recently fell in love with Bamboo wood flooring. It's a shade similar to maple, but with more grain, and an interesting grain to boot. Check it out if you're shopping for wood floors.

[Mayhaw Man]

Antique heart pine (it will match the rest of the house). Last forever, looks great. Just sand it down every ten years or so and you are good to go.

Hopefully by the end of the week I will be able to post a progress report. We got held up moving a breaker box (a subpanel, but still a pain) and could not move the laundry gear until we got that done.

Happily we are nicely air conditioned at this point, so I can't complain much.

[therese]

Glad to hear you're not having to camp out, at least.

I'm sort of in withdrawal, so do please post a progress report.

[Mayhaw Man]

Laundry should be moved by this weekend, and I should have a swell cad drawing of the layout at about the same time.

I have selected this refrigerator. I can't see the advantage of two doors (especially considering the price differential and besides, I think that I like the one door better).

I also need an ice machine, any recs? Needs to make 20 lbs per day plus and can't cost over $1200.

I am going to build in my current O'K and Merritt Stove (scroll to # 4) as I love it.(I would post photos of mine, but it is currently in a storage room). I am designing the kitchen where I can eventually add a seperate ELECTRIC ELCTRONICALLY CONTROLLED SPACE SHUTTLE OF AN OVEN, but as I just wrote school tuition checks and some for all of this other kitchen stuff that is more of a pressing matter, I will wait until I am a bit more flush for the oven.

But, for those of you following along, here is the order of what has to happen

1) Move Laundry Room

2) Put down new floor

3) Wire walls for new appliances and then repair the same walls , make the roof match and wire roof for lighting (I am joining two rooms and one of them has a really beautiful faux finish (my wife does this, among many other things, as part of her livlihood) so I think that we might do it all the way across). Adjust plumbing to fit appliances (piece of cake, as my house is 3 feet off of the ground).

4) Install new appliances

5) SLOWLY, bring in the new cabinets between now and the Holidays (cabinet guy is a friend and is doing them as he can). Top priority currently is to get the one finished to handle the sink and dishwasher unit. That part of the counter is going to have a 14 foot long section on cypress bartop that my son and I are going to rework into a thing of beauty. The cabinets are of yellow pine construction with cypress fronts. They will very likely be finished somehow, but that is not my dept.

6) Have a big meal for all of the many friends who are helping out in one way or another with this project (not completely selflessly you understand, I feed alot of people on a regular basis and this project is messing them up as well-the freeloaders )

I will try to post some photos of where I stand on Wednesday.

[hathor]

I love this. Mayhaw Man and family do all the research...and we benefit! What a great thread! Now I want a Klondike refrigerator...and an OK'M stove.

But I'm very worried. Yesterday I was encouraged by MM to go and ahead and build a stone put bbq...today I find this thread and realize that MM is insane. You rip out a kitchen w/out a plan???

[Rachel Perlow]

I have selected this refrigerator. I can't see the advantage of two doors (especially considering the price differential and besides, I think that I like the one door better).

Brooks, compare the model you selected to the one my friends bought yesterday. Yours is model 75282, their's is model 75292. Here's a url, but I'm not sure it will work, you may have to redo the comparison: http://www.sears.com/sr/product/compare/pr...od1078611901=on

Anyway, the only difference I can find is that model 75292 is $100 less. You may be able to adjust your order if you did it recently.

The main reason to get the Trio would be if you don't have the room to swing out one wide door. But it also has a few other nicer features, but they might not be worth the extra money to you.

[Cusina]

Nice... good choices I think so far, though I still think you are kind of insane to do this all at once. Insane in a good way of course.

The heart pine and cypress is going to look beautiful next to the stainless. We have light maple floors, walnut cabinets and stainless appliances and I love the contrast.

I, personally, like a double bowl sink. One side with disposal for kitchen scraps, the other for soaking dirty dishes. Fairly deep, but not too deep because of the disposal. We have Corian, so mine is one of those seamless with the countertop ones. I'm a lefty, he's a righty too, so middle faucet for us. We went for this one, which I like very much and was at least a little less than the cost of a college education. Faucet link Soap dispenser on the side is nice too functionally, though the chrome hasn't held up well on that.

Don't forget to keep posting pictures as you go along, please.