Making flavored syrups

[Libationgoddess]

Beans, I couldn't agree more...Mint syrup = yuk.

Audrey

[beans]

Did not make this syrup, but last week I visited the new Crate and Barrel store and was surprised they sell some beautifully packaged foodstuffs.

I purchased Meyer Lemon Rosemary syrup. It is intended for sorbet, however other suggestions were on the label that got me immediately to think, hmmmm this may work very well in a cocktail!

I haven't brought myself to open it up yet because I am still admiring the clever packaging (it is in a pouch in a small paint can).

For unknown reasons Meyer lemons are hard to come by in Cleveland, despite how often I ask my favourite citrus dealer at Westside Market to stock them when they are in season, so this syrup better be as yummy as I hope!

[Libationgoddess]

This one's for Fatdeko....

I demo'd one of my drinks down in New Orleans, and the mint down there (along with the alternate brand of gin they gave me to use) completely altered the flavor profile of my drink as I knew it....which was completely distressing.

Although I sent the cocktail out as was, Chris MacMillan gave me a taste of Monin's Mint syrup as an option (southern gentleman that he is)....and I've got to admit, it was pretty good! No funky, vegetal characteristics anywhere to be found (thank god for "natural flavors" and stabilizers ). And even though I found the syrup to be too heavy, it could definitely be an option when in a pinch...

Audrey

[Chris Amirault]

So, if I wanted to make a basic raspberry syrup that would work with, say, an East India Cocktail, what proportions of fruit, sugar, and/or water am I looking for? I realize that the sugar question depends on the sweetness of the fruit, but am I looking for something as sweet as grenadine? Or is this all to preference and then to be tweaked, YMMV, etc.?

[KatieLoeb]

Chris:

Raspberry syrups are so easy to find commercially (and remain shelf stable that way) I find it hard to believe that making one's own would be a better alternative.

I use Routin 1883 Raspberry syrup at my bar and it serves its purpose very well. If you really want to infuse some fresh fruit flavor into a drink I suggest muddling a few berries into it. But the commercial syrup is much more consistent and available in every season.

I make my own syrups for stuff that doesn't exist. Stuff that does exist is generally better than I can do on my own. YMMV.

[bostonapothecary]

Chris:

Raspberry syrups are so easy to find commercially (and remain shelf stable that way) I find it hard to believe that making one's own would be a better alternative.

I use Routin 1883 Raspberry syrup at my bar and it serves its purpose very well.  If you really want to infuse some fresh fruit flavor into a drink I suggest muddling a few berries into it.  But the commercial syrup is much more consistent and available in every season.

I make my own syrups for stuff that doesn't exist.  Stuff that does exist is generally better than I can do on my own.  YMMV.

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if you make your own you don't get stuck with glucose sugars... are there any classic small batch recipes for raspberry syrups? if one was recreated we could calculate a classic brix and acidity.

[Nathan]

the nice thing about commercial syrups is that there are so many. I regularly use mint, rose, raspberry, blueberry and strawberry syrups....I just picked up an orange cream syrup which should be fun to play with.

[thirtyoneknots]

Routin 1883 is a fantastic brand. Orgeat, Passion Fruit, Raspberry, Strawberry, Pineapple and Mint I can all personally vouch for (though the Mint works best in something like a Parroquet, not as a sub for fresh mint). The Vanilla syrup, well, I think that's one area where your homebrew will probably be superior (there's just something peculiar about it).

-Andy

[KatieLoeb]

Andy:

Thanks for the recommendation on some of the other flavors I haven't tried in the Routas line. I'm curious about the Rose and Violet flavors, and will be interested in the pineapple when the weather warms up again in the spring. I think I might get a mixed case of flavors to play with from the link I provided upthread. $99/case for 12 liter bottles is a pretty good price, and it doesn't seem that any flavors are excluded from your choices in a mixed box. Definitely something to think about.

[JAZ]

So, if I wanted to make a basic raspberry syrup that would work with, say, an East India Cocktail, what proportions of fruit, sugar, and/or water am I looking for? I realize that the sugar question depends on the sweetness of the fruit, but am I looking for something as sweet as grenadine? Or is this all to preference and then to be tweaked, YMMV, etc.?

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This is a late reply, but in Imbibe, Dave Wondrich outlines a method to approximate the old school version, which is just to make a simple syrup and macerate raspberries in it. I made one, using 1-1/4 cups of sugar to 1 cup of water, which I boiled until the sugar was dissolved and took off the heat. Then I added a 12-oz. bag of frozen (thawed) raspberries, stirred and mashed a little and let cool. Strained, pushing heavily on the berries to get the syrup out.

It's not really sweet, but it's worked well in the drinks I've tried it in. I store it in the fridge, because I didn't fortify it with any spirits.

Now I just have to figure out the pineapple syrup that so many of the old recipes call for. Any help out there?

[lostmyshape]

Now I just have to figure out the pineapple syrup that so many of the old recipes call for. Any help out there?

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use the same process as you outlined for the raspberry syrup. i used a 1.5:1 simple because i figured that the pineapples (1 fresh - i just bought pre-cored and peeled from whole foods) have a lot of water in them. i fortified with a table spoon of 151 rum. it's super pineapple-y and sooo good in rum and tequila drinks!1

man those squished pineapple peices were delicious once they came out of the sugar syrup. have ice cream handy and use as a topping once you sqeeze them!!!

[Dave the Cook]

Just to be clear: 1-1/2 cups of white sugar to 1 cup of water, then macerate one pineapple (peeled and cored) in the solution, then strain and add a tablespoon of overproof rum?

[lostmyshape]

Just to be clear: 1-1/2 cups of white sugar to 1 cup of water, then macerate one pineapple (peeled and cored) in the solution, then strain and add a tablespoon of overproof rum?

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yep... that's how i did it. except i used a raw sugar instead of white. that changes the flavor a little, but i don't see why it wouldn't be delicious with white sugar, too. um, and soaked the pineapple overnight. i imagine you could change the ratios to 1:1 or 2:1, also (i can't remember why i settled on the 1.5:1, but any ratio should work fine). the more sugar, the longer it should last (the high sugar content acts as a preservative). the rum isn't essential, but should also keep it longer.

[slkinsey]

The sugar solution should draw some liquid out of the pineapple (or any other fruit). This is important for a few reasons:

First, the pineapple liquid has lots of pineapple flavor in it. This isn't like infusing lime zest into simple syrup. It's more like infusing whole lime slices into simple syrup. We're doing more than simply taking aromatic oils into solution.

Second, the higher the saturation of the original simple syrup, the greater the volume of flavorful liquid should be pulled out of the pineapple.

Third, as the flavorful liquid is pulled out of the pineapple, it will dilute the simple syrup. So a 1:1 simple syrup into which pineapple chunks are infused may end up as a 1:<1 simple syrup.

All of these things argue in favor of a fairly concentrated simple syrup. One could, of course, simply cover thin pineapple chunks with dry sugar and let the sugar draw liquid out of the pineapple until the sugar is dissolved. Using a syrup may be easier. In the end, it's about finding the fight balance between flavor extraction and sweetness. It's possible that very concentrated syrups can't pull enough flavor to stand up to the sweetness.

With respect to preservation. . . A very rich syrup should remain free of spoilage in the refrigerator because sugar in sufficient concentration acts as a preservative. As to the shelf-stability of the pineapple flavor -- even under refrigeration, I can't imagine that it keeps its nice flavors for very long without some losses due to degradation. This argues in favor of simply doing an overnight infusion of pineapple chunks into whatever simple syrup you happen to have around, and planning on using it up within a few days.

Adding grain alcohol or overproof rum. . . I am not convinced that adding a half-ounce of 150 - 195 proof spirits to a pint of sugar syrup will have any increased preservative effect whatsoever. I'll ask a few microbiology types for a more definitive answer.

[eje]

If you whip up a big batch of Pisco Punch, you'll have no problem getting rid of that pineapple syrup. Of course, you really should be using gum syrup as the base for your pineapple syrup...

[Chris Amirault]

Third, as the flavorful liquid is pulled out of the pineapple, it will dilute the simple syrup.  So a 1:1 simple syrup into which pineapple chunks are infused may end up as a 1:<1 simple syrup.

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Doesn't it depend on what you mean by "dilute"? Unlike limes, pineapple juice is sweet.

[slkinsey]

Third, as the flavorful liquid is pulled out of the pineapple, it will dilute the simple syrup.  So a 1:1 simple syrup into which pineapple chunks are infused may end up as a 1:<1 simple syrup.

Doesn't it depend on what you mean by "dilute"? Unlike limes, pineapple juice is sweet.

Is there more than one meaning of "dilute"? As far as I know, "dilute" means "to lessen the strength of a solution." To clarify what I wrote, I mean "dilute" as in: "the addition of juices from the pineapple chunks to the simple syrup will result in a pineapple-flavored simple syrup that has a lower concentration of sugar and lower 'sweetening power' compared to the uninfused simple syrup."

Pineapple juice is nowhere near as sweet as simple syrup. The label on a can of Dole pineapple juice says that there are 22 grams of "sugars" in one 6 ounce serving. Six ounces of 1:1 simple syrup would contain around 106 grams of sucrose. Six ounces of 2:1 simple syrup would contain around 168 grams of sucrose.

What this means is that any liquid that comes out of the pineapple will reduce the concentration of the simple syrup. If shelf life is desired (although, as above, I don't think it's really possible) this argues against infusing into a 1:1 simple syrup. 1:1 simple is already a little dicey when it comes to spoilage, and 1:<1 would be even more susceptible. Then again, if you use it up within a few days, as I recommend, it's probably not worth worrying about preventing spoilage.

Edited February 4, 2008 by slkinsey (log)

[Chris Amirault]

Third, as the flavorful liquid is pulled out of the pineapple, it will dilute the simple syrup.  So a 1:1 simple syrup into which pineapple chunks are infused may end up as a 1:<1 simple syrup.

Doesn't it depend on what you mean by "dilute"? Unlike limes, pineapple juice is sweet.

Is there more than one meaning of "dilute"? As far as I know, "dilute" means "to lessen the strength of a solution." To clarify what I wrote, I mean "dilute" as in: "the addition of juices from the pineapple chunks to the simple syrup will result in a pineapple-flavored simple syrup that has a lower concentration of sugar and lower 'sweetening power' compared to the uninfused simple syrup."

←

That is clearer. I wasn't claiming that pineapple juice and simple syrup are equally as sweet. But infusing a simple syrup in lime halves and another in pineapple will result in solutions with different levels of sweetness. S'all.

[slkinsey]

That's certainly true.

You also have to account for the fact that many of these fruits bring other things besides simply sugar, moisture and aromatics. Most fruit contains a certain amount of acid, which will change the impact of the resultant infusion's perceived sweetening power.

[Alchemist]

Then there is perceived sweetness. I would bet if you have a lime syrup and a pineapple syrup, the lime would have to be decidedly sweeter than the pineapple due to the way we remember lime and pineapple. There could be a disconnect between the smell and taste of sweet.

Toby

[lostmyshape]

^what they said... people here get so exact in their technique and process! talk about obsession! err, rather, love! could anything inspire more devotion than booze? money? bah! power and success? for the suckers! women? well...

slkinsey makes a reasoned argument as to the amount of sugar to use (and i think that's what made me go with a 1.5:1 ratio in the first place). as far as dilution, be sure that it happens. my pineapple syrup is much more runny that my 1.5:1 raw sugar simple.

i'd say this stuff is pretty stable for a resonable amount of time. i've had mine in the fridge for about a month (almost gone...) and i'd say it's only nominally less pineapple-y than before and there are no off-flavors.

as far as adding the alcohol... someone with some real math skills could do the alcohol content math, but it does seem the resulting mix would have a quite low abv (in the 1% range). seems right to question it's preservation ability. i only included the rum because it was in so many recipes i read. anyone with real knowledge of this want to weigh in?

[slkinsey]

Well, let's do the math on a hypothetical example: Let's say that you have 15 ounces of simple syrup to which you add 1 ounce of absolute ethanol (in reality we are adding less alcohol than 1 ounce of 100% but this makes the math easier). You now have around a pint of liquid at 6.25% alcohol / 12.5 proof. Considering that all kinds of nasty things can grow in 6% beer, I have to believe that the addition of alcohol won't do much.

As for the history, the first person I know who recommended adding booze to simple syrup in writing was Dave Wondrich. Not sure whether this was an original idea of his or not. I note that Esquire Drinks does not contain a recommendation for added alcohol as a preservative, whereas Killer Cocktails does (". . . add 1/2 ounce of grain alcohol or 151-proof rum to deter mold.").

[thirtyoneknots]

I make my syrups rich (2:1) and add grain alcohol to create about 3% alcohol in the syrup. I have had them sit in the warm kitchen for well over a year without anything odd growing in them. Grenadine, on the other hand, requires somewhat more care (or I should increase the sugar). As for the stability of pineapple flavor in syrup, I made some about a year ago (whenever it was that it was in Imbibe magazine) and 6-8 months later when I tossed it while moving it still had a mild, but distinct, pineapple flavor (I made too much of it). While homemade syrups are fun to mess with and have an undeniable charm to them, I'm not opposed to using a good commercial brand that will also have a much longer shelf life, so long as the investment involved isn't too great. I rave so much about the 1883 line y'all probably think I work for them (I wish I was getting paid for that) but I simply think they are the best brand of syrups around, pineapple included.

Edit: spelling

Edited February 4, 2008 by thirtyoneknots (log)

[Splificator]

As for the history, the first person I know who recommended adding booze to simple syrup in writing was Dave Wondrich.  Not sure whether this was an original idea of his or not.  I note that Esquire Drinks does not contain a recommendation for added alcohol as a preservative, whereas Killer Cocktails does (". . . add 1/2 ounce of grain alcohol or 151-proof rum to deter mold.").

I hasten to add that I have not seen, much less done scientific studies of this. But I started doing it one particularly hot summer when I was having problems with my syrup (2:1) growing mold: out of 3 or 4 batches, at least two sprouted disgusting black flecks when stored at room temperature. Subsequent batches, prepared with a little Everclear, proved perfectly stable. Hence my suggestion.

In preparing fruit syrups, I like to begin with that same 2:1 ratio, for precisely the reason identified above: the sugar draws out a considerable amount of moisture from the fruit.

When making raspberry syrup, I'll use 2 of the standard small containers of raspberries to a pound (2 cups) of sugar and a cup of water. I melt the sugar over low heat, remove it from the heat and stir in the berries, mashing them around quite a bit. Then it goes through a fine-mesh strainer and into a Tupperware thingie, which goes into the fridge. After a day or so, all the pectin will float to the top--at least, that's what I think it is. Anyway, there's all this cloudy stuff which should be skimmed off. The resulting syrup will be very clear and bright red, with a nice, clean raspberry flavor. It will keep for at least a month if refrigerated.

For Pisco Punch, it's essential to begin with a 2:1 syrup, as pineapples throw off a good deal of juice. I usually make the pineapple syrup at room temperature, dicing a pinapple and putting it in enough syrup to cover. This is left overnight, at room temperature unless it's very hot out (this stuff wants to ferment).

[slkinsey]

I make my syrups rich (2:1) and add grain alcohol to create about 3% alcohol in the syrup. I have had them sit in the warm kitchen for well over a year without anything odd growing in them.

The beauty of sugar syrup is that sugar is a preservative. If you make the simple syrup concentrated enough, it will preserve itself. I've had extra gomme syrup sitting around warm in bottles for over a year, and nothing bad happened. I didn't add any alcohol to this gomme, but I did wash the bottles out with high proof alcohol before pouring in the gomme. This may have a greater effect. I've also been known to top thick simple syrup with a thin layer of high proof alcohol on the theory that it will act as a barrier to any airborne nastys getting into the syrup. Probably fanciful thinking on my part.

Grenadine, on the other hand, requires somewhat more care (or I should increase the sugar).

Your instincts are good -- increase the sugar concentration and you won't have any problems. I make mine only around once a year. I do a 4- or 6-fold reduction of pomegranate juice, melt in as much sugar as the hot liquid can possibly take, let it come to room temperature and then dilute it down to the approximate sweetness of 2:1 simple syrup with fresh pomegranate juice (I use POM, because it's the easiest to find). This provides a nice balance between sweetness, a concentrated "cooked" flavor and the zip of fresh pomegranate. I never add alcohol to this, although I do keep it under refrigeration.