Speaking French?

[Cornellrob]

I haven't had much success in browsing past threads for this topic, but when in France and dining at some of the top restaurants, how necessary is it to speak or be able to read French? Do most of the best restaurants offer English menus or waiters who can easily translate for those without the skills?

The reason I ask is I am strongly considering making my first trip to France this Summer, and I'd like to go out to some of the better restaurants if at all possible. However, i have no clue at all as to how i'm going to interpret the menu or even order for that matter.

What happens when you do not go to a high-end restaurant? Like a well known Parisian Bistro?

Thanks a lot for your help!

[bleudauvergne]

You can point at the menu.

[Louisa Chu]

At a three-star there will be someone who speaks English who can translate the menu. At a popular bistro - maybe - and maybe a translated menu. Patricia Wells has a glossary.

[John Talbott]

I wouldn't worry too much in better restaurants and better known bistros. Even in small, new, out of the way places, they'll have one person who can translate and if stuck will find a willing patron (like me) whom they know speaks English. The only problems arise when dishes or prearations have goofy or idiosyncratic names, eg "beef prepared the way Colette likes it," a "soupe of St. Remy with squid," "nontraditional rice pudding" but they do that in the US too.

Bear in mind that almost all the French take years of English in school, but they often don't want to speak it because they don't want to make mistakes (one could come up with some cultural stereotypes and psychological explanations here).

There is a nifty little (about 3.5 x 6 inch, or the size of a Zagat) French-English Food dictionary sold at Brentano's (37 Ave de l'Opera). It's usually on the second table on the right as you enter from the ave de l'Opera entrance. I'll come up with the name, publisher etc for you next week for you.

But don't let a lack of language interfere with your intention to visit.

However, that said, learning and using a few basic phrases from a beginner's phrase book goes a long way, eg "Bon jour, Excusez moi de vous deranger, Je ne parle pas francais, Au revoir, etc." and it goes without saying, don't shout in English when the going gets tough. I've been watching people for over 50 years in Paris and the reception one gets when struggling to speak even a few primative words is quite different than when one makes no effort.

Have fun. Eat well. And don't sweat the details.

[JudyB]

However, that said, learning and using a few basic phrases from a beginner's phrase book goes a  long way, eg "Bon jour, Excusez moi de vous deranger, Je ne parle pas francais, Au revoir, etc."  and it goes without saying, don't shout in English when the going gets tough.

I'd agree - my experience is that making an attempt to speak French gets you far more good will than just speaking in English. Provided that you make some effort they will be more than happy to make an effort to communicate in return. (One of the more amusing sights we had last time in France was watching a Dutch lady speaking English loudly at a waiter!).

Knowing a few basic food terms may also help so that you can ask whether something you're not sure about is meat (viande) or fish (poisson) or whatever. The worst problem we have is identifying types of fish, although usually we have correctly identified that it is fish. In the UK we eat a relatively restricted range of fish and the English-French phrasebooks unfortunately reflect that.

Also, if there is something you really can't eat (or are allergic to) then it is probably worthwhile making sure that you know the French for it to avoid embarrassment.

Otherwise, regard it as an adventure and have a good time!

Edited May 19, 2004 by JudyB (log)

[picaman]

My favorite story on this subject:

My partner and I were dining in a restaurant in Paris late on a Monday evening, and there were two occupied tables--us and another two-top. I speak passable "restaurant French", and could maybe get a doctor or find a bathroom, but that's about it--but I always make the attempt and have never had problems.

The pair at the other table were conversing in I would guess to be a Scandinavian language, but both they and the waiter spoke German, so that's the language they had settled on to order etc.

About halfway through the meal, one of the other diners leaned over and said (in perfect English), "Sorry to interrupt, but could you settle a bet for us? Are you Irish or Scottish?" When I replied that we were American, he said, "I never would have guessed it. You were speaking French--we thought you had to be from another English-speaking country."

Funny, but I suppose somewhat sadly ironic at the same time.

Jamie

[Bux]

I rather miss the days when I had to struggle in my less than proficient French. That I still try to do so and that by and large the French are willing to patiently hear me out can be attributed to a character flaw in both our personalities. One of the things expected at a three star restaurant is that the staff will have an ability to speak several languages. English is generally the first among all foreign languages spoken in western Europe. It is the language of international business and often the one used by multinational corporations internally.

Once you leave the two and three star restaurants, there's less of a guarantee that anyone will speak English, especially if you leave Paris, but you're not likely to starve no matter where you choose to eat, although you may eat very poorly if you search out restaurants with big bold multi-lingual menus posted on the street. Everyone's encouragement and advice has been good and true so far. Allow me to add mine.

There's just no point in traveling if you don't have any sense of adventure. You're young and will likely return to France as well as travel elsewhere, maybe even to less civilized places, in your lifetime. Value the great experiences for their greatness, but value the experience for what you will learn about France, French food, traveling, life and yourself. At your age, even disappointments can be valuable. Risk the disappointment in the hope of trying something new. (At a couple of hundred bucks a dinner, discuss the meal in English if necessary. I'm talking about the bistro meal.)

As others have suggested. Learn a few words in French because a few civilities in French go a long way towards charming the French. Whether you're adventurous or not, learn a few words in French that will help you in deciphering a menu. Fortunately you can do that at any supermarket or diner. Seriously, French is the language from which we get an awful lot of our food terms. Pigs are pork (porc) at the table. Calves are veal (veau). Cattle are beef (boeuf). Pullet comes from poulet. You'd be surprised how much of a simple bistro menu an intelligent American can get right off the bat. Poisson however, is not poison and andouille bears no resemblance to the sausage from Louisiana. It's a sausage made from innards, chitlins and can have a very "barnyard" aroma. Do get yourself a pocket glossary of food terms and don't be afraid or embarrassed to use it in public. That sort of thing has helped me out in Japan. Here you have the advantage of a Roman alphabet.

Last and not least, make some effort to learn more French. Things taste better when ordered in French. Actually the problem I have is that with a familiarity of French menu terms, I find I can second guess what I'm ordering from the French menu, but the English translation often leaves me clueless. One last thing. Nothing makes a better impression than conveying the sense that the person you're dealing with can teach you something. I guess it's an attitude more than anything else, but your body language as well as what you say will let the staff know if you are there to sate your hunger and expect them to satisfy your hidden agenda or if you've traveled all this way to learn about French food at the source. You're on your own if they sense the first. There was a good thread in this forum once about what some of us older travelers learned from friendly waiters eager to serve, but we were never offended when a waiter told us we made a poor choice and suggested something else. We never believed we knew what was best for us or that the waiter was there just to do our bidding.

Bon voyage et bon appétit.

[browniebaker]

In Paris and in the Burgundy region I found that three-star restaurants had staff who spoke English and other foreign languages. The same was true in smaller, less-known restaurants in Paris. However, out in the countryside of Burgundy, lots of locals spoke only French, even restaurant staff, and my French came in handy there. True, you can always point to a menu, but I think travel is always enhanced when one can speak the local language, even just a little. Having a few polite phrases at hand is a charming way to break the ice. And I do like to know what I am ordering off a menu!

Even though I speak French all right, I rarely use the ability in the U.S., so I always brush up on it before travel to France. When I travel to countries where I do not know the language at all, I try to learn the language before I go. I borrow tapes from the public library and self-teach, which costs me nothing but an investment of time and effort and enhances my trip immeasurably.

[Busboy]

About halfway through the meal, one of the other diners leaned over and said (in perfect English), "Sorry to interrupt, but could you settle a bet for us? Are you Irish or Scottish?" When I replied that we were American, he said, "I never would have guessed it. You were speaking French--we thought you had to be from another English-speaking country."

Funny, but I suppose somewhat sadly ironic at the same time.

Jamie

I have had the tremendous good fortune to travel to France several times over the last two years and have found that no one ever thinks I'm American. It's either my tenuous grasp of the French language or my fabulous Euro-style that throws them off, and I am informed by close friends that it is probably not the latter.

As I am now, also, travelling to Greece occasionally, and have very little command of that language, I can conficently state that the relatively modest time and money investment involved in a six-week "intro to French" night course will be richly repaid. Even a modest vocabulary and the most rudimentary grammar skills will dramatically increases your freedom of movement and ability to explore, and will likely draw much more friendly and supportive reactions from the people you meet.

[markk]

Everybody in the hospitality industry in France speaks English. (An exception might be a tiny b&b in some remote region, but then again, anybody who's been to school since WW II has learned English.)

But for an absolute fact, everybody in the top and not so top restaurants, and absolutely definitely for sure in every bistro mentioned in every guide book, they will speak English.

I haven't had a chance to read this entire thread, but I do speak some pretty good French, enough that once I go into a place and start the conversation in French, we wind up speaking French the entire evening, and wonderful doors open up to me - the doors of the kitchens, to new friendships, etc. Nobody is fooled into thinking I'm French (but I'm NEVER taken for an American, either, ever).

But that's another matter and separate from your question. They speak more than enough English to accomodate you and show you a great time.

On the other hand, learning a few pleasantries would certainly be a nice thing to do, and would undoubtedly buy you some extra help. Why don't you follow some of the suggestions given, and learn at least to say "Good Day" and "Good Afternoon" and "Good Evening" in French, and then learn to say "I'm sorry that I don't speak French. Is there someone who could assist me in English, please." That would do it.

My hobby is traveling in France and eating. Along the way I make lots of new friends and happily many of them are restaurateurs. Here are some photos of restaurants (some as fancy as Michelin 2-star establishments, some not fancy at all) where I've photographed the food.

Photos of Restaurant Dinners in France

And as I say, they will speak English in every restaurant and bistro in Paris. Not only has everybody learned it in school, but everybody watches CNN. Sadly, it can be said that it's hardly like being in France anymore. That's the reason I travel to the nether regions. But you'll be fine. And my last suggestion is, even if they do come up with a dish whose translation is "Chicken in the Style of Aunt Paulette" - they'll be able to tell you what's in it. For me, I don't care what's in a dish as long as the chef recommends it - I eat everything, and as you'll see from the photos, I do. If you've never made a meal of Frog Legs, sauteed duck liver, and preserved duck thighs, you have a new world waiting for you. I have a friend who thought he'd rather die than eat these foods in France. Now, after many years of traveling there, he doesn't eat anything but.

The people and the foods are great and they will speak English. Have a great time!

Edited May 19, 2004 by markk (log)

[bleudauvergne]

I haven't had much success in browsing past threads for this topic, but when in France and dining at some of the top restaurants, how necessary is it to speak or be able to read French?  Do most of the best restaurants offer English menus or waiters who can easily translate for those without the skills?

The reason I ask is I am strongly considering making my first trip to France this Summer, and I'd like to go out to some of the better restaurants if at all possible.  However, i have no clue at all as to how i'm going to interpret the menu or even order for that matter.

What happens when you do not go to a high-end restaurant?  Like a well known Parisian Bistro?

Thanks a lot for your help!

One thing that I would be rather concerned about is getting reservations. This might be difficult if you don't speak a word of French. The best thing to do in your case would be to enlist the aid of your hotel concierge, who's job it is to do things like make reservations, or, if you are on a budget and staying in a hotel that does not have a concierge, to make friends with the guy at the front desk and ask him to call for you. That might be a much better way of getting your reservations than to call and hope that they do speak English.

A good couple of words to know are: "Je voudrais...", meaning "I would like...". If you start with those two words and then completely mangle the rest, or even point, you'll still be alright because they will respect that you're giving it a good try.

About people not thinking you're American because you're speaking French - I get asked almost every time I discuss something with a stranger what my nationality is. People used to come out and ask if I am British, but after a few years, now they say, "I detect an accent, may I ask where you come from?" This I find is a much more polite way of asking, than "Are you English?" (which I am not.). My accent is not strongly American because I had to learn a whole new system for making sounds when I learned to speak Chinese, so when I speak now it's close to French, but not quite. I got tired of announcing my nationality to complete strangers who really don't give a damn one way or another where I'm from, they're just making small talk. I began giving strange answers like no, actually I was raised in Thailand. No, I'm from the Island Nation of Madagascar, (that made them look at me like a freak, for sure!) etc. Once I said I was Canadian but that didn't work very well, because the two women behind the counter didn't believe me because I didn't have a "Canadian Accent." I forgot about that!

But really you'll do just fine if you don't speak the language, just try. They won't be hard on you for trying. It's when people make the assumption that everyone speaks English that can rub people the wrong way.

Edited May 19, 2004 by bleudauvergne (log)

[balmagowry]

I haven't had a chance to read this entire thread, but I do speak some pretty good French, enough that once I go into a place and start the conversation in French, we wind up speaking French the entire evening, and wonderful doors open up to me - the doors of the kitchens, to new friendships, etc. Nobody is fooled into thinking I'm French (but I'm NEVER taken for an American, either, ever).

Heh heh, I can top that. The French usually do think I'm French, though during the rusty first couple of days after I arrive they sometimes puzzle over what region I'm from; by day #3 they're guessing which Parisian suburb. No matter how rusty I am, it is always a shock to them to learn that I am "New-York-aise" - one bartender was deeply impressed, saying to me in effect, "I tried to learn English once, but it's so complicated - I don't know how you can speak it!"

I don't really have anything substantive to add to the excellent advice up-thread, except that the nifty book John mentions is available in this country, if you want to bone up ahead of time. Fat lot of help I am, because off the top of my head I don't remember its title or author either, but I know I have seen it at Kitchen Arts & Letters in NY; I'm sure it would also be available through something like the Alliance Francaise.

I'll also repeat for emphasis what so many have already said here: the sincere attempt to speak a little French will buy you more good will than you can imagine. Used to be, the French had a surly curmudgeonly reputation for this sort of thing; I don't know whether that's changed or whether it was always exaggerated, but I have rarely seen a Frenchman fail to warm to a respectful approach from a foreigner paying him the compliment of trying to speak his language. (And no, I don't mean me, with my obnoxious unfair advantage.) Now that most French people do speak English (y'see, young 'un, when I was a kid at a Lycee it was a whole different deal because French was the international diplomatic language, so the French could be on their high horse about not needing to speak anything else!) it is possible to get into some wild conversations where you insist on speaking French to the waiter but he proudly insists on airing his English - these inverted bilingual exchanges can occasionally lead to comic mishaps, but more importantly they also lead to general mutual good feeling.

EDIT to add quote & fix punctuation

Edited May 19, 2004 by balmagowry (log)

[Bux]

A good couple of words to know are: "Je voudrais...", meaning "I would like...". If you start with those two words and then completely mangle the rest, or even point, you'll still be alright because they will respect that you're giving it a good try.

I'll add that "I would like ..." has a far different connotation than "I want ...," or even "I want ..." and that it's the sort of thing that makes a difference in a country such as France. It's a gentler, less demanding way to ask for something and they'll respect you more for that little bit of politeness.

French society operates on a code of formal politeness. Transactions in shops are started by greeting the clerk. "Bonjour" precedes "Je voudrais deux croissants. S'il vous plaît." [That's "Good day. I would like two croissants. Please. (literally "If you please.)] It's still common for a customer to walk into a shop or bar and formally greet everyone in the place by saying "good day, ladies and gentlemen."

[picaman]

my fabulous Euro-style

That's IT!!

Seriously, the top line advice here is learn a few phrases and use them, as the attempt will be appreciated as long as one keeps good humor about the exchange. Relax, have fun, and revel in the cultural differences there to be experienced.

And wear lots and lots of black

Jamie

[balmagowry]

Yes, and I sometimes think every shopkeeper in France, every owner of every little stall at every market, must have gone to the same shopkeeper school where they all learned the absolutely identical inflection and intonation with which they say "Bonjour, madame" (or "bonjour, m'sieu'") when you walk into a shop. When I first heard it I was a little intimidated because the formality and tone instantly transported me back to my Lycee days, not all of which were what you could call halcyon. That reflex once broken, it's a lovely familiar ritual to walk into a cheese shop or a boulangerie and hear the invariable (even if they know you quite well) "bonjour, madame" that signals the beginning of the formal negotiation for one's all-important small purchases. The end of the transaction, of course, is signalled by mutual "merci, madame"s (allowing for gender). It's all very proper, very civilized.

[balmagowry]

Oops! Just noticed the time stamp on the original post; I cleverly deduce that either you're burning some pretty serious midnight oil or you're not posting from the US. So my suggestion of New York bookstores is less than useful. I looked on Amazon (US) and found several candidates for the role of pocket menu dictionary; the one that looked most familiar to me was Langenscheidt's. Don't know which incarnation of Amazon is handy to you, and whether an eGullet-friendly link would carry over - IAC and FWIW, here's the link.

Edited May 19, 2004 by balmagowry (log)

[markk]

Heh heh, I can top that. The French usually do think I'm French, though during the rusty first couple of days after I arrive they sometimes puzzle over what region I'm from; by day #3 they're guessing which Parisian suburb. No matter how rusty I am, it is always a shock to them to learn that I am "New-York-aise" - one bartender was deeply impressed, saying to me in effect, "I tried to learn English once, but it's so complicated - I don't know how you can speak it!"

I don't really have anything substantive to add to the excellent advice up-thread, except that the nifty book John mentions is available in this country, if you want to bone up ahead of time. Fat lot of help I am, because off the top of my head I don't remember its title or author either, but I know I have seen it at Kitchen Arts & Letters in NY; I'm sure it is possible to get into some wild conversations where you insist on speaking French to the waiter but he proudly insists on airing his English - these inverted bilingual exchanges can occasionally lead to comic mishaps, but more importantly they also lead to general mutual good feeling.

You've hit the soul of traveling with this observation.

I stay quite a bit at the Hilton (sometimes the Holiday Inn) in Strasbourg, France, and I've made it clear to the staff that I converse with them in French not to show off, but to improve my language, and our conversations, when they're not incredibly busy, sometimes become grammar lessons. They've all learned that at some point in a conversation I will invariably ask them to write out a particular verb's conjugations or an expression. But most importantly, they know never to break into English to help me out, no matter what my need, becuase more than I care that they know that my bedspread caught fire from a short in the lamp cord, I care about being able to say that in French for the next time such an emergency should arise.

There's one guy there who said, "for the same reason, I'd like to speak English to you and ask you to correct it, if you'd be similarly kind" and while that killed the fun for me, of course I had to oblige him, but I solved that by only passing the desk and waving when he was on.

My favorite thing is what happens when I first enter a place - a store or a restaurant, speaking farily good French. Being a wonderful people, their first thought is to repay the kindness and answer me in my own language if they can, but I seem to have found a combination of inflection and facial expression that indicates that I'd like to do the transaction in French, and they always smile as they realize this. Better fun can't be had on a trip.

I am always complimented at some point in the conversation about my French, which probably is making them cringe inside (I know that when somebody speaks English as well and at the same time as badly as I speak other languages, I have mixed reactions), but I enjoy spending 2 weeks at a time speaking only French, and so I always answer them in French, "Thank you. I love mutilating your language."

Yet more doors open.

[menton1]

It's still common for a customer to walk into a shop or bar and formally greet everyone in the place by saying "good day, ladies and gentlemen."

One of the many, many things I love about France is their shopping customs. The profit motive is secondary or tertiary to them. It is imperative upon a shopper upon arriving to greet the retailer, "Bonjour Madame! (Monsieur)" and upon departing to say "Au revoir" (or "bon journée). This is of significantly more importance to the French than if you buy anything! (Imagine that in the US! )

[balmagowry]

I am always complimented at some point in the conversation about my French, which probably is making them cringe inside (I know that when somebody speaks English as well and at the same time as badly as I speak other languages, I have mixed reactions), but I enjoy spending 2 weeks at a time speaking only French, and so I always answer them in French, "Thank you. I love mutilating your language."

What a perfect reply! They must love it. The fact is, though they are sometimes so embarrassed by their "inferior" English - usually not so inferior - I'm always charmed by their attempts, and of course the accent only adds to the charm. (I have a dear friend who is Hungarian-German, and his slightly fractured English is one of the perpetual delights of my life.) I wonder whether ours sound as charming to them.... Well, if not, they never let on.

[markk]

Three years years ago at a magnificent restaurant I frequent in the Vosges Mountains of Alsace, where I have become great friends with the chef and his family, I was taking photos of my dinner.

At the end of the meal, another diner, a somewhat matronly, elderly woman, marched over to my table and asked me, in German "Are you Germans?"

I replied in German "No, Americans."

She almost immediately broke into a gigantic smile and said "Wunderbar! Wunderbar !!!" and walked back to her friends beaming to inform them that we were Americans who obviously had a great interest in our food. We overheard this and got into a conversation (in French, thankfully) with them, and they explained how wonderful they thought it was that we'd bring photos of our French meals home.

The next year, with a newer camera that also took video, we realized that when we cut into our warm apple tarts that the "crunch" had to be recorded for posterity. At that point we'd come to realize that most of the people staying there at Christmas time were regulars, and we were on a friendly basis with them, stopping to say both hello on the way in and good night on the way out with most of them. So when the next apple tarts arrived, I stood up and tapped a knife on a glass as if to propose a toast, and in what I call French, explained that we were about to take a video with sound of the crunch, and needed everybody to hush for a moment. THEY LOVED IT, ad of course complied, and all gave me their e-mail addresses so I could send them the link when it was posted.

I share it with you here:

A restaurant meal in Alsace that ends with me asking the dining room to hush-up for a moment

[Bux]

I share it with you here:

Lovely. Now if you could get us a taste ...

[naguere]

Look out for 'taquiner' , if you think the group near you are talking about you, they probably are. (it is a great French sport) conducted by all frogs.

[Kahrs]

I agree 200% about using Je voudrais <infinitive>... It's a crutch but it will enable you to ask for more things than you can imagine. Totally useful. I learned French the hard way (living and working there) so my vocabulary is heavily oriented towards foodstuffs

Once, during a trip I was having real problems speaking. I apologized (in French) for the evil french ... The waiter replied (in french) "Oh please, I'd rather have you speak French than anything else". What a relief.

Oh, and learn how to ask for a table for n people for tonight. And be prepared for disappointment...

Have fun!

[winemike]

Not very food related ... but I think it's just common sense : when you're in a country, try to speak the local language. Why is it special with the French ? Clearly, speaking the local language opens doors .. what happens in the US if you don't speak English ? ....

As for "taquiner" .. I don't get it ... to tease and "people talking about you" .. how is it related ?

I think the French national sport are strikes and complaints Along with eating and wine drinking ....of course !

[bleudauvergne]

I share it with you here:

A restaurant meal in Alsace that ends with me asking the dining room to hush-up for a moment

Hilarious.