SF's Local Scene

[rancho_gordo]

Mind you, I once spent 12 hours (round trip) in the space of 16 in an old yellow school bus just to go to Delano CA to see Cesar Chavez dedicate a retirement community for farm workers.  Good music and by-donation eats in the Plaza, too.  (JennotJenn, what we smoked en route wasn't Camels.)

I spent most of the 1970s working on the UFW sponsored boycott, met with Mr Chavez, escorted Dolores Huerta through San Francisco, had coffee with Cesar's parents at their home in Fresno and spent my free time in grocery store parking lots, sometimes being spit at or having freshly purchased grapes thrown at me. I'm glad you had a swell time and cured your "munchies" but I don't think you should play this UFW card with me.

I do acknowledge that there's one vendor at FPFM who flies a UFW banner, but I don't guess that's Rancho Gordo.  Radical chic!

No, it wouldn't be me because I don't sell there.

I know you're trying to be cute or glib but I'd still rather hear why you think the Civic Center market is more "real".

[rancho_gordo]

PS Many (but not all, of course) of the same vendors from FBFM are at Jack London Square on Sundays (the rest being at the Marin County Civic Center FM)

PPS Rancho Gordo, I for one would like to hear your thoughts, and BTW, your tortillas were TDF. We made little pigs out of ourselves; we got shamefully close to eating our way through the entire package a few hours after we bought them from you last week!

Thanks. It's the difference of fresh, simple tortillas or gum-by products, I guess.

Are you saying my thoughts on the Oakland markets? I only do Saturday in Grand Lake but I hear Sunday at Jack London is a lot of people's favorite. But I do Sunday in Marin, otherwise I'd give it a go. it's huge, isn't it? I also hear that the Friday market is good.

The nice thing about Grand Lake is it was supposed to be a retail complex and the comminuty got together and built a park. Coming from Napa, it's such a great thing to see so many different types of people. The word "diversity" sounds like a cliché but it's true and refreshing. Plus the shoppers in Oakland are pretty savvy.

[Gary Soup]

I know you're trying to be cute or glib but I'd still rather hear why you think the Civic Center market is more "real".

Not entirely. I didn't do it just for the refritos or the unanticipated munchies. Your level of commitment was laudable. At that time on my life I would have had to dodge both child support commitments and student loans to be down there more.

By more "real" I mean the UN Plaza FM (and some of the others) are slightly closer to the original simple concept of the farmer bringing his fruits (and nuts, as it were) directly to the consumer and splitting the middleman's cost to the advantage of both. At the FPFM and some others, the "middleman" has been replaced by cachet and undefinable epithets like "natural", "organic" and the like. These latter charge a very high commission. I for one, don't value the cachet enough to pay $3/lb. for potatoes.

Mind you, I'm well aware that the pricier farmers' markets carry some unusual produce that is difficult or impossible to find elsewhere, and the people who labor at producing these are entitled to charge what the market will bear (O, where are my beloved black walnuts or true Russet apples ?) but gilding mainstream produce is another matter.

[rancho_gordo]

Right on, bro!

I've been up since 5am and am about to do the same, so if I was a little rough around the edges, you have to understand where I'm coming from. I've never worked harder in my life and I probably read a wee bit more into your message than was there, or maybe not, but I understand your point- it just really doesn't relate to me.

I have a laundry list of issues with the FBFM, starting with "what is the simple criteria for getting in?". I could go on but I'd be potentially shooting myself in the foot. But the "community" is small and I know of "farmers" who "farm" and sell at the Civic Center by driving their trucks to a distribution center and picking up vegetables. It's fresh and cheap and maybe even organic/sustainable but it's also at odds with the original spirit. There are great growers at both and clear flaws with both.

I understand neighborhood markets are popping up and personally I find that pretty swell.

[Bond Girl]

Okay guys, is anyone in for a stroll in the Farmers Market. Squeat has suggested meeting at the statue of Ghandi. Is 9am too late?

[Squeat Mungry]

Okay guys, is anyone in for a stroll in the Farmers Market.  Squeat has suggested meeting at the statue of Ghandi.  Is 9am too late?

I'm in. 9 am at the Ghandi statue. See ya there!

[Schneier]

Thanks everyone. Just one more thing, if I want to treat myself and my friend out for one night where should I go? The Slanted Door or The Fifth Floor Room?

Slanted Door.

Bruce

[tanabutler]

I don't know if I can get up that early. I'd have to leave my house at about 7:00 AM. I'll think about it.

Does someone wanna PM me with a cell phone number in case I can come but might be late?

Thanks.

[Squeat Mungry]

Unfortunately, I don't have a cell phone.

[SobaAddict70]

In fact, the New York Times had a profile of Chef Phan this Wednesday:

Slanted Door, Charles Phan's immensely popular Vietnamese restaurant in San Francisco, which recently reopened in new quarters in the Ferry Building, has featured a dish called shaking beef "since Day 1," Mr. Phan said. It is clearly the restaurant's most popular dish: "There are nights we sell 60 orders of it," he said.

The Chef: Charles Phan (Mark Bittman) (from the NYTimes DIGEST update for 21 April 2004. Scroll down for the appropriate link.)

Soba

[Bond Girl]

I do and has sent the number.

[tanabutler]

I am hoping to get up there, but it all depends on things like money and insomnia and willingness and "is there gas in the car?" things. I have Bond Girl's phone number, and she has my gratitude.

Right now, given the early hour and the distance, it's less likely. But who knows? I could wake up and be energized with jealousy at your next adventure.

[tanabutler]

Well, insomnia was a factor (I was up for no reason at 5 AM), but worse than that was that one of our sweet kitties was attacked by something with claws and fangs. He will pull through, barely, we think, but he spent Friday night in the hospital and came home this afternoon. I don't do well with animal nursing, or this kind of fatigue.

I'm sorry, Bond Girl. I hope your weekend is fabulous. I'm certain it was.

[enrevanche]

Wow, 'tis the season for New Yorkers to travel to San Francisco. My wife and I are planning a five-day trip in early June in celebration of her birthday. We're really looking forward to it, as neither of us have been to SF in years.

Getting a lot of good ideas from this thread.

Two quick questions:

-- I've heard from a couple of friends that the cafe upstairs at Chez Panisse is as good as the downstairs main dining room and may in fact be the way to go. Comments?

-- How feasible is it for us to plan a day-trip into Napa/Sonoma counties to take a quick look at wine country? Looks like it would be maybe an hour and a half's drive to Napa (?) Would we be better off taking a guided tour first time out, or can we muddle through ourselves in a rental car?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[tanabutler]

-- How feasible is it for us to plan a day-trip into Napa/Sonoma counties to take a quick look at wine country? Looks like it would be maybe an hour and a half's drive to Napa (?) Would we be better off taking a guided tour first time out, or can we muddle through ourselves in a rental car?

It's feasible, given the five-day window. Why not spend a night up there, so you can take a tour and have wine without worrying about driving?

And on the other hand, it might make you feel so rushed.

I guess it depends on how active you like your trips to be.

[marie-louise]

-- I've heard from a couple of friends that the cafe upstairs at Chez Panisse is as good as the downstairs main dining room and may in fact be the way to go.  Comments?

The food is as good, the service is as good, the meal is almost as expensive, but the experience is more casual and vibrant upstairs versus more "worship at the temple of food" hushed downstairs. It depends on what you want. Personally, I like upstairs just as much as downstairs, but I'm a casual kind of gal. I do like those Monday night downstairs dinners-they feel pretty relaxed, too.

-- How feasible is it for us to plan a day-trip into Napa/Sonoma counties to take a quick look at wine country?  Looks like it would be maybe an hour and a half's drive to Napa (?)  Would we be better off taking a guided tour first time out, or can we muddle through ourselves in a rental car?

I think it's very feasible. I just went up to Napa last weekend w/ some friends (mostly because he wanted to take us for a spin in his new car.) Left [Oakland] around nine-ish, went to one winery (Niebaum Coppola-cool movie stuff there), had a late lunch (Rutherford Grill across the street-great ribs), and drove home. We were back in town in about six hours yet I still felt like I'd had a wine country day. The trick is to only go to one, maximum two, wineries.

PS Do try to get up to Muir Woods, especially on a weekday. Go on past the main trail (it is only an hour or two loop and you will get well past the masses.) To me, our redwoods are one of our most spectacular features. Take a picnic, keep going on the same road to get out to the beach, then drive back via Cozelman Road (the one that's in lots of car commercials) and you will have had quite a special day.

Edited April 25, 2004 by marie-louise (log)

[winesonoma]

-- How feasible is it for us to plan a day-trip into Napa/Sonoma counties to take a quick look at wine country? Looks like it would be maybe an hour and a half's drive to Napa (?) Would we be better off taking a guided tour first time out, or can we muddle through ourselves in a rental car?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Think Sonoma Valley 1 day, Alexander, Russian River, Dry Creek Valleys 1-3 days, Napa 1-3 days. This allows time to eat, drink and enjoy your self. Pick your wineries beforehand and also your restaurants. We who live here are always glad to help. Spend at least one night here or you'll feel rushed.

[Carolyn Tillie]

When I was driving up from SoCal to "do the wine country" the trick I learned is to plan your timing to arrive in the valley BY 9:30 or 10:00 a.m. - before the traffic! Stop at Oakville Market or Dean & Deluca (if in Napa) or Sonoma Market (if in Sonoma) and pick up some picnic items for lunch.

DO NOT waste your time eating lunch at a restaurant, but snack on your picnic items (a little meat, some good cheese, nice bread, maybe some cornichons) at a number of the wineries that are amenable to picnics (there are several). Think about it -- the opportunity for open wineries is really only about six hours. Considering that the best meals take at least two hours, you are chewing up an awful lot of time eating if you decide to break up the day with a seated meal.

Pay a bit more money for dinner and you'll get the most out of your day = Five to Six hours visiting wineries (then you are not limited to only two or three, but possibly as many as five or six), then a relaxing, elegant meal where you won't feel rushed to "get out to one more winery" before the day's over. If you get dinner reservations for an early seating (5:00 or 6:00), you can be back in the city, lounging in a lovely bathtub or massaging a loved one by 9:00.

The best way to "Do the Wine Country in a Day" = Twelve Hours Rule: Arrive before the traffic and leave after the traffic.

Trust me.

[tanabutler]

Ditto about Oakville Grocery. A brilliant idea, one I recommend to people all the time. And ditto the Niebaum-Coppola thing.

[rancho_gordo]

Right on, bro!

It dawned on me that I need to add a smiley face thing because it's not so clear this sentence was written in somewhat of a jovial mood. I would never in any seriousness say, "Right on, bro". I wouldn't even call you "bro" unless we shared the same mother.

So here goes:

[tanabutler]

You are so brave, Rancho Gordo! A man of your gravity using emoticons.

I nearly wept. Heh.

[Gary Soup]

Right on, bro!

It dawned on me that I need to add a smiley face thing because it's not so clear this sentence was written in somewhat of a jovial mood. I would never in any seriousness say, "Right on, bro". I wouldn't even call you "bro" unless we shared the same mother.

So here goes:

We share the same mother Earth.

[enrevanche]

Thanks to all for the wonderful advice about our upcoming trip.

I love the idea of taking a picnic lunch to a simpatico winery - solves an important logistical problem for us. Gonna do that.

I wish we could actually stay a couple of days in wine country, but that will have to be next trip out. So this will have to be a day trip, this time around.

And in re: Muir Woods, we are definitely going to check that out. It's already on our list.

Thanks again to all.

[bilrus]

-- I've heard from a couple of friends that the cafe upstairs at Chez Panisse is as good as the downstairs main dining room and may in fact be the way to go.  Comments?

The food is as good, the service is as good, the meal is almost as expensive, but the experience is more casual and vibrant upstairs versus more "worship at the temple of food" hushed downstairs. It depends on what you want. Personally, I like upstairs just as much as downstairs, but I'm a casual kind of gal. I do like those Monday night downstairs dinners-they feel pretty relaxed, too.

I have not been downstairs, but my wife and I have made two visits to the cafe and based on those it has become one of our favortie restaurants we have been to. I love the feel of the place and the fact that they do so much with so few, simple ingredients.

[jschyun]

I also have been upstairs, not downstairs and since i'm also a casual kind of gal (well, for the most part) i really like it. the last time I went there was a couple years ago, but I had an excellent warm goat cheese salad that stands out in my mind.

I think we spent about $60-$70 for 2 pple, but then it's been a while. I thought that was about half the downstairs rate but I'm probably wrong.