Braised Brisket: The Topic

[Fat Guy]

In case any of you missed the mentions in Slkinsey and Gifted Gourmet's posts above:

Anybody with the slightest interest in brisket simply must acquire the April 2004 issue of Saveur. It contains the best and most comprehensive article I've ever seen about brisket, by my friend (and I'm not the type of person to refer to every acquaintance as a friend), Saveur Senior Editor and James Beard Award-winning writer, Kelly Alexander.

[bloviatrix]

I know my mil is making a brisket for one of the sederim, but all this discussion made me want brisket NOW!! So, I have one in the oven slowly braising away for shabbat dinner tomorrow night. I've always used a 1st cut brisket in the past, but this time round I bought a 2nd cut. Plus, I put it in a 275 oven and I'm going to leave in for 5 hours.

BTW, 2nd cut kosher brisket costs $11.99/pound in Manhattan.

[Fat Guy]

In the Saveur issue in question, in the kitchen section in the back, there is, ancillary to the brisket article, a couple of photos and brief discussion of first cut and second cut. Their conclusion is that second cut is more flavorful, though less convenient to work with.

[robyn]

With the possible exception of the non-Passover Lipton Onion Soup Mix, the noodle kugel, and the First Baptist Church, I can see your points here, Robyn ....  otherwise, I actually do slice up the brisket and let the meat sit in the sauce ....

I'm not the most religious Jew in the world (mea culpa) - but I do try to observe the holidays in my own way. As for the Baptist Church stuff - it is very "in" these days for lots of Christians - particularly evangelicals - to attend seders. I think my envangelical Christian relatives go to more seders than I do. Robyn

[robyn]

In the Saveur issue in question, in the kitchen section in the back, there is, ancillary to the brisket article, a couple of photos and brief discussion of first cut and second cut. Their conclusion is that second cut is more flavorful, though less convenient to work with.

When you buy brisket at most stores - it's almost never called 1st and 2nd cut. It's the flat and the point. The flat is - well flat - and is relatively lean. The point is the end - the part that bends back on itself - and it has a lot more fat. No question that the point is more flavorful due to the fat. And I disagree that it's more difficult to work with (all you need to do is skim the fat off the gravy if you make it a day or two ahead of time).

If you live in a community with a reasonable Jewish community - like South Florida - it's possible to buy a flat cut - or a point cut - or a whole brisket - at a local supermarket like Publix. Where I live - in north Florida - Publix only sells flat cuts - and they are trimmed of all fat within an inch of their lives. I tried a local butcher store last year to get a point cut - but it was almost all fat - even when trimmed. I assume that in a place like New York - you can get a nice fat but not too fatty trimmed point cut. Robyn

[Fat Guy]

....Their conclusion is that second cut is more flavorful, though less convenient to work with.

....I disagree that it's more difficult to work with (all you need to do is skim the fat off the gravy if you make it a day or two ahead of time).

They were speaking in terms of cooking time (you have to cook the point/second-cut longer) and slicing (the regular shape of the flat/first-cut makes it easy to get lots of nice, even slices).

[Al_Dente]

Okay, now a new wave of anxiety has come over me. I knew there was a "flat" and a "point", and vaguely knew the difference, but now what do I do?

How bout both? Perhaps I'll do the flat with the fruit recipe from epicurious above, and the point in a more savory classic style?

I'm cooking for twelve and there will be a roast chicken to augment the main course options. So, poundage-wise, how much brisket should I get.

In order to take into account FG's advice on portions, the Jew/Gentile ratio will be 8/4.

[hillvalley]

How bout both? Perhaps I'll do the flat with the fruit recipe from epicurious above, and the point in a more savory classic style?

I'm cooking for twelve and there will be a roast chicken to augment the main course options. So, poundage-wise, how much brisket should I get.

In order to take into account FG's advice on portions, the Jew/Gentile ratio will be 8/4.

Since you sat at the wrong end of the table Wedneday night, I will continue my campaign for the savory brisket here. Savory brisket and Manashevitz (how do you spell it anyway ) go much better than fruit!

Proportion wise, keep in mind that nothing is better than leftover brisket. While the rest of us suffer with matzah you can enjoy it on rye. It also freezes very well.

I am now in a fight with my mother 'cause she wants to make lamb and I am craving brisket, no thanks to this thread

The onions, by the way, are as good as any confit or carmilization. mmmmmm

Has anyone walked you threw the seder? The hours of sitting with food in front of you and not being able to eat it?

[Al_Dente]

Has anyone walked you threw the seder? The hours of sitting with food in front of you and not being able to eat it?

I have a little bit of an idea of what I'm in for. I think these people do a bit of a Reader's Digest Condensed version, so perhaps I'll be spared.

[Gifted Gourmet]

Has anyone walked you threw the seder?  The hours of sitting with food in front of you and not being able to eat it?

I have a little bit of an idea of what I'm in for. I think these people do a bit of a Reader's Digest Condensed version, so perhaps I'll be spared.

It really is not that bad, Al .... It is just a story, some blessings, and then one can eat .. obviously, this will be the Cliff Notes version so they'll skip the part that drags after dinner, hopefully .. then it all ends mercifully with a hearty "Next year in Jerusalem" ... you might even enjoy it!!

[Al_Dente]

you might even enjoy it!!

I'm positive I will.

[bloviatrix]

Since you're cooking for twelve, and you want left-overs don't make anything less than 7 pounds. I know this sounds like a lot, but with shrinkage, and a hugry crowd, bigger is always better.

[Fat Guy]

I would recommend 9 pounds: 1 pound per Jew and 1 pound for the 4 Genitles. Seriously, though, in my experience the nicest briskets tend to be the ones in the 4-5 pound range (for the half, not the whole). I have no operating theory on why this is the case. In any event, I recommend you get two in that size range.

Over-portioning is not only necessary to compensate for shrinkage and heavy eaters. It's also part of the spirit of the event: it's supposed to be a feast. Nobody should feel as though he or she runs the risk of taking the last piece of anything. There should be so much food on so many platters that everybody feels entitled and required to overeat to exhaustion. At which point you can serve dessert.

[Gifted Gourmet]

I would recommend 9 pounds: 1 pound per Jew and 1 pound for the 4 Genitles.

Don't know about how many "genitles" it feeds (is Doctor Freud in the house today??) but I do prepare meals for my seders using the formula that one seder meal should realistically feed the entire population of Long Island .....

[bloviatrix]

I would recommend 9 pounds: 1 pound per Jew and 1 pound for the 4 Genitles.

Don't know about how many "genitles" it feeds (is Doctor Freud in the house today??) but I do prepare meals for my seders using the formula that one seder meal should realistically feed the entire population of Long Island .....

Just Long Island? Not the entire metropolitan NY area? And you call yourself a jewish mother?

[Gifted Gourmet]

I would recommend 9 pounds: 1 pound per Jew and 1 pound for the 4 Genitles.

Don't know about how many "genitles" it feeds (is Doctor Freud in the house today??) but I do prepare meals for my seders using the formula that one seder meal should realistically feed the entire population of Long Island .....

Just Long Island? Not the entire metropolitan NY area? And you call yourself a jewish mother?

I have to think of the cost/benefit ratio here, bloviatrix, even a Jewish Mother is a pragmatist when it comes to "volume feeding"....

[hillvalley]

Has anyone walked you threw the seder?  The hours of sitting with food in front of you and not being able to eat it?

I have a little bit of an idea of what I'm in for. I think these people do a bit of a Reader's Digest Condensed version, so perhaps I'll be spared.

It really is not that bad, Al .... It is just a story, some blessings, and then one can eat .. obviously, this will be the Cliff Notes version so they'll skip the part that drags after dinner, hopefully .. then it all ends mercifully with a hearty "Next year in Jerusalem" ... you might even enjoy it!!

Especially if there are kids around.

So (said in her best jewish grandmother voice) which recipes did you decide on?

[Gifted Gourmet]

So (said in her best jewish grandmother voice) which recipes did you decide on?

While I can't speak for what Al Dente is going to serve for seder, I can tell you that my own menu has undergone some drastic revisions!!

Thanks to the multiple eG brisket posts, I have pushed my frozen turkey into isolation in my freezer, opting instead for a brisket which I bought yesterday .... it was all those delightful comments and reminiscences and, of course, detailed recipes for brisket, which changed my mind and plans! Thanks for that! I am now a happy, confirmed eGulleteer who "listens" and "gets it"!!

[bloviatrix]

As I stated earlier in this thread, that I got an intense need for brisket all because of you guys. My 5 hours at 275 was a total success. The meat was incredibly soft. There was no need to even chew. I should probably try this method with a first cut to see how it differs.

We were very happy campers at dinner last night.

[Gifted Gourmet]

The meat was incredibly soft.  There was no need to even chew. 

Hmmm ... which opens up yet another question for you, bloviatrix, can one put this tender a brisket in an IV drip??? I am mainlining the gravy as I speak!

I think that eG has some nefarious financial interest in the kosher brisket market and is encouraging us to purchase enormous quantities of the stuff just to make a "killing" in the cattle futures market!! PETA be afraid, be very afraid!!

[robyn]

Robyn's Brisket  entered into RecipeGullet for posterity.  Psssst...  RecipeGullet is our friend.  Please post your recipes Here

Thanks Marlene. I know I'm supposed to do that. But frankly I'm up to my ears these days. My father-in-law in the nursing home hasn't been well. My mother was just diagnosed with colon cancer. I'm trying to get the tax returns finished for us and my father-in-law. Do the spring gardening chores (missed those last year due to my father-in-law). And make my own brisket (did that this morning ). I will try to be good and do things right - but I suspect that I won't have a lot of breathing room until the summer (when it's too hot to do most things outside during the day - we have to work like crazy outside in March/April to get things done before it gets too hot).

BTW - thanks for posting the recipe for me. I can't remember where I got it from - but I've been using it for decades - and it's good. Robyn

[Gifted Gourmet]

Just had the most delightful discussion with bloviatrix with regard to the price of kosher briskets ... she pays more per pound in NYC than we pay here in the wilds of Georgia .... considerably less! So she may fly in to pick up some of this local "bargain", she notes with glee ...

But, while I see those briskets as something comparable to buying clothing at Bergdorf Goodman, she sees it as an essential, not unlike Cartier's "Musts" stuff ... Does a brisket or a Coach handbag fulfill the mitzvah of "living high on the hog"?? and, when choosing a new pair of Manolos, need one calculate the difference between the two with the price of kosher brisket of beef?

[robyn]

Has anyone walked you threw the seder?  The hours of sitting with food in front of you and not being able to eat it?

I have a little bit of an idea of what I'm in for. I think these people do a bit of a Reader's Digest Condensed version, so perhaps I'll be spared.

There are all different versions. There's the shorter than Reader's Digest version at the nursing home (it's hard to get 90 year old people to wait to eat anything after 5:30!). Then there's the 5 hour version that my parents have to endure when they visit the house of a relative of my sister-in-law (the daughter wrote her own - and even though I like the original better - everyone indulges her). Hopefully yours will be somewhere in the middle - and you'll get to hear the story without falling asleep. If it isn't - you can always watch the Ten Commandments on TV . Robyn

[robyn]

Just had the most delightful discussion with bloviatrix with regard to the price of kosher briskets ...

I don't eat kosher meat at home - not with a husband who has to take daily diuretics to control high blood pressure. So FYI - the price of non-kosher brisket is between about $2.50 and $4/pound - depending on whether or not it's on sale.

By the way - our local Harris Teeter had all of its Passover products on sale this week - matzo - gefilte fish - horseradish etc. I never could stand paying $8 for a jar of gefilte fish. Robyn

[robyn]

Hmmm ... which opens up yet another question for you, bloviatrix, can one put this tender a brisket in an IV drip??? I am mainlining the gravy as I speak!

No - you can't use an IV drip - but you can make brisket foam <g,d&r>. Robyn