Shoot the DJ!

[NeroW]

There's a "British-Indian" pub back home that serves good food and on Friday nights, the accordian guy gets up and stomps on the bar while he plays. I always liked that.

[Pan]

If it's too loud, you're too old.

Either that, or you were never "with it," like me. Remember the "Disco sucks!/Rock sucks!" wars? For the most part, I thought they both sucked and went right on listening to classical music...

Overly loud music is a pet peeve of mine, as is excessive darkness.

[balmagowry]

Either that, or you were never "with it," like me. Remember the "Disco sucks!/Rock sucks!" wars? For the most part, I thought they both sucked and went right on listening to classical music...

Of course you did! It's the only sensible thing to do. Just think of it as Reverse Chic.

At least if I want to annoy someone with loud music, it's Frank Sinatra and Nelson Riddle, or Stairway to Heaven, played wicked loud.

That's pretty good, but believe me, Mahler is way more efficacious.

My parents always loved to tell the story of the idyllic vacation they took on Lake Powell with my uncle and his wife. The four of them rented a houseboat and spent several days toodling around at their own pace and oohing and ahhhing at the beauty of the place. One night they had lucked into a perfect little anchorage - quiet isolated cove, shallow water, breathtaking view. No sooner do they settle in for the night than another houseboat chugs in, drops anchor just upwind of them, and starts blaring loud rock music. Uncle attempts polite request to tone it down; no dice, no response. Finally uncle trots below, brings speakers up on deck, aims them to windward. Plays recording of the "Titan" symphony at top volume.

Oddly enough, a minute or two later the people in the other boat suddenly decided to look for another anchorage.

[Pickles]

Try being a restaurant owner;

          A customer saying: "Can you Turn it down sir"  ,  "the music is a little loud"

          Another customer saying: "Sir the music is a little quiet can you turn it up"

         

Have you ever thought that a owner is trying to cater to a certain market and the music is loud because it is the type of customer that the owner is trying to cater to.

The music should be in tune with what the restaurant is,.. like Indian music-Indian restaurant, Chinese music-Chinese restaurant but in the end it is the restaurant owners right to play what they want, if you do not like it you can always leave.

When I dine out, it's my expectation that the establishment reaches a compromise in order to cater to people over 40 ( or noise- sensitive people regardless their age!) who do not appreciate being blasted from their seats by piped in music, or musak. The "you can always leave" thing is a pat answer that doesn't apply to me. If I want MTV or American Midol, or just to blast my own tunes at home, I know I can do that, or hear that. From sad indigestive experience, I know what places to stay the hell away from anyway. I can't take it. Don't HAVE to take it. I want to be able to hear myself eat.

Edited March 25, 2004 by Pickles (log)

[stovetop]

Try being a restaurant owner;

          A customer saying: "Can you Turn it down sir"  ,   "the music is a little loud"

          Another customer saying: "Sir the music is a little quiet can you turn it up"

         

Have you ever thought that a owner is trying to cater to a certain market and the music is loud because it is the type of customer that the owner is trying to cater to.

The music should be in tune with what the restaurant is,.. like Indian music-Indian restaurant, Chinese music-Chinese restaurant but in the end it is the restaurant owners right to play what they want, if you do not like it you can always leave.

When I dine out, it's my expectation that the establishment reaches a compromise in order to cater to people over 40 ( or noise- sensitive people regardless their age!) who do not appreciate being blasted from their seats by piped in music, or musak. The "you can always leave" thing is a pat answer that doesn't apply to me. If I want MTV or American Midol, or just to blast my own tunes at home, I know I can do that, or hear that. From sad indigestive experience, I know what places to stay the hell away from anyway. I can't take it. Don't HAVE to take it. I want to be able to hear myself eat.

Yes you are right; But don't you think that some business are trying to get a certain restaurant age like 20 something, I am not saying that is right, that is not what I am trying to say, but I am just trying to think what a owner is thinking, when you are a regular to a fine establishment I think that a owner would accommodate your every desire and taste, the wine, hopefully the music will be just right, the candle light, it is a whole mood, but you know something some owners do not understand this mode, so they will do what they know, so you always have a choice where you do business, whether we like it or not owners do make decisions in regards to what customers he or she would like to have at their establishment.

stovetop

[Jonathan Day]

Stovetop, I agree that some establishments work hard to select a target clientele and then tailor the decor, menu, etc., to that group. For the most part I carefully avoid places that are deliberately trying to be "buzzy" e.g. by removing soft furnishings and putting reflective panels on the ceiling so that ambient noise is very high. Or by playing loud music. As you say, a customer can choose to dine elsewhere.

What I find annoying are restaurants where no such choice has been made but where the staff on the day put on music, not because it's part of a customer experience, but because they like to listen to music. I've had more than one manager admit that they've had loud music going because the waitstaff prefer it that way even though the customers don't. (Yes, it's still OK to say this sort of thing here in the UK, though it is becoming less common).

I've never cut a wire and wouldn't do so. I did remove a cable, without damaging it, and returned it on leaving the restaurant. In that case I had very politely asked a waiter to turn down the music. He turned on his heel and walked off without a word; a few moments later the volume went up! So I made sure it went down again.

[FistFullaRoux]

I have a bit of a problem (even though I know I shouldn't) with the "shoot the DJ" statement. I understand that it is a embellishment, and you really aren't advocating violence against DJ's.

I am a part-time DJ. I have done private parties in one section of a resaurant, while the rest was open for business. New Year's eve, for example. I have a client to keep happy. I try not to play obnoxious music, but it can and does get loud. I know that this is a special circumstance not covered in the discussion here.

I really really have a problem with the cutting of the wires. I thought about this all night, and it is something I feel strongly about. As someone who occasionally makes a few bucks with my equipment, to have someone purposefully damage my equipment would be an immediate cause to press charges. This is just as though you walked into the kitchen and cut the gas lines to the oven because you didn't want to eat anything baked. YOU might not want it, but others may. It is entirely within your rights to get up and leave the restaurant. It is your perogative to ask that the music be turned down or changed. It is not within your rights, and is downright criminal to purposefully damage any part of a restaurant's property.

You all know the odds of making a restaurant profitable. I think something like less than 10% make it past the first year. Not only that, but by leaving a cut wire hanging somewhere, you run the risk of causing the place to fail a building inspection. Even if it is only audio, an inspector having a bad day can write that up and cause major headaches for an already stressed owner. Some places use 70 volt transformers for their PA systems. You should also know that 70 volts could potentially start a fire. A small chance I know, but so is dropping a lit match on a hard surface. You don't go around dropping lit matches on the floor, do you?

I feel that if you feel no remorse about cutting into a restaurant's already limited profitability by destroying property (even if it is only a wire), only because you don't like something, you are callous and shallow, and are no better than the delinquents who spray graffitti or break windows.

If it were my restaurant, I'd press charges and post your picture at the front door so you would never enter my property again.

edited to clarify a point and make it my opinion

Edited March 25, 2004 by FistFullaRoux (log)

[jo-mel]

balmagowry ----- Reverse chic. I love it!! I also like what your uncle did in that cove. HeeHee!

Classical always will endure. Long after the rock, the heavy, the whatever.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I select a restaurant, it is for the food -- not the music. Music should enhance the meal, not take over.

Edited March 25, 2004 by jo-mel (log)

[clothier]

I have a bit of a problem (even though I know I shouldn't) with the "shoot the DJ" statement. I understand that it is a embellishment, and you really aren't advocating violence against DJ's.

I am a part-time DJ. I have done private parties in one section of a resaurant, while the rest was open for business. New Year's eve, for example. I have a client to keep happy. I try not to play obnoxious music, but it can and does get loud. I know that this is a special circumstance not covered in the discussion here.

I really really have a problem with the cutting of the wires. I thought about this all night, and it is something I feel strongly about. As someone who occasionally makes a few bucks with my equipment, to have someone purposefully damage my equipment would be an immediate cause to press charges. This is just as though you walked into the kitchen and cut the gas lines to the oven because you didn't want to eat anything baked. YOU might not want it, but others may. It is entirely within your rights to get up and leave the restaurant. It is your perogative to ask that the music be turned down or changed. It is not within your rights, and is downright criminal to purposefully damage any part of a restaurant's property.

You all know the odds of making a restaurant profitable. I think something like less than 10% make it past the first year. Not only that, but by leaving a cut wire hanging somewhere, you run the risk of causing the place to fail a building inspection. Even if it is only audio, an inspector having a bad day can write that up and cause major headaches for an already stressed owner. Some places use 70 volt transformers for their PA systems. You should also know that 70 volts could potentially start a fire. A small chance I know, but so is dropping a lit match on a hard surface. You don't go around dropping lit matches on the floor, do you?

I feel that if you feel no remorse about cutting into a restaurant's already limited profitability by destroying property (even if it is only a wire), only because you don't like something, you are callous and shallow, and are no better than the delinquents who spray graffitti or break windows.

If it were my restaurant, I'd press charges and post your picture at the front door so you would never enter my property again.

edited to clarify a point and make it my opinion

Yep.

Only that was much better written then what I wrote.

[balmagowry]

balmagowry ----- Reverse chic. I love it!!  I also like what your uncle did in that cove.  HeeHee!

Yup - and I'm not 100% sure it was the Mahler that did it - or rather, that it would have worked as well as it did if he hadn't had backup at the ready. There's something about my uncle - you can just tell by looking at him that he never goes anywhere without the complete Ring Cycle. That oughta be enough to scare away a whole FLEET of houseboats....

[Mabelline]

I adore Lake Powell!!!

[Pan]

Of course you're right, FistFullaRoux. Similarly, it is criminal to shoot the DJ. As long as people are kidding about these things, it's OK, but if anyone actually does them...

[FistFullaRoux]

Of course you're right, FistFullaRoux. Similarly, it is criminal to shoot the DJ. As long as people are kidding about these things, it's OK, but if anyone actually does them...

The impression that I got from reading the post is that certain people at least entertained the idea, and anecdotal evidence showed some among us had gone as far as to carry a pair of wire cutters.

I felt the line was crossed with one admission, and adecdotal evidence pointing to at least one more.

And I was also pointing out the dangers of this happening. Maybe in the future, if you are sitting at a table next to the guy who would be about to slice the wires, you may have a moment of clarity, and do something about it. Even if it's only calling the manager over discreetly.

[Pouncy]

That's pretty good, but believe me, Mahler is way more efficacious.

My parents always loved to tell the story of the idyllic vacation they took on Lake Powell with my uncle and his wife. The four of them rented a houseboat and spent several days toodling around at their own pace and oohing and ahhhing at the beauty of the place. One night they had lucked into a perfect little anchorage - quiet isolated cove, shallow water, breathtaking view. No sooner do they settle in for the night than another houseboat chugs in, drops anchor just upwind of them, and starts blaring loud rock music. Uncle attempts polite request to tone it down; no dice, no response. Finally uncle trots below, brings speakers up on deck, aims them to windward. Plays recording of the "Titan" symphony at top volume.

Oddly enough, a minute or two later the people in the other boat suddenly decided to look for another anchorage.

Reminds me of our "ghetto" apartment. Honest to God, the people right under me were a pack of drug dealers who played what we called "booty tunes" constantly. Normally we could tune it out, but during finals I'd had enough. After going downstairs and screaming at them that if they could shut the damn stuff of for *one* week I'd not bitch until next semester, they agreed. At which point I return to hour 34 of wakefulness and frantic typing. Hour 37, they forgot.

Speakers to the floor, 1812 Orchestra, *repeat*.

Took them five minutes to knock it off until that Friday.

[John Whiting]

. . . some among us had gone as far as to carry a pair of wire cutters.

I confess! They are part of an electrician's all-purpose tool called a Leatherman, which I have carried about my person for almost twenty years (except, of course, when I board a plane, when it goes into my hold luggage). Unethical though it may be, they remain in my bag when I enter a restaurant.

As one who spent much of his life working with the projection and recording of real music, I find it difficult to get worked up about the ethics of stripping away involuntarily endured aural wallpaper. I reserve the right to be as disrespectful to audible polution as I am to neighboring smokers and the pushers of junk food.

Edited March 26, 2004 by John Whiting (log)

[slacker]

Somehow this thread inspired Panic lyrics "Hang the blessed DJ, Because the music they constantly play.... Hang the DJ. Hang the DJ. Hang the DJ." from The Smiths.

Yes that's right, a song that droned on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on

Bless Morrissey.

[Pan]

Of course you're right, FistFullaRoux. Similarly, it is criminal to shoot the DJ. As long as people are kidding about these things, it's OK, but if anyone actually does them...

The impression that I got from reading the post is that certain people at least entertained the idea

I hope they're not serious. Anyone want to confess to armed robbery, too?

[FistFullaRoux]

. . . some among us had gone as far as to carry a pair of wire cutters.

I confess! They are part of an electrician's all-purpose tool called a Leatherman, which I have carried about my person for almost twenty years (except, of course, when I board a plane, when it goes into my hold luggage). Unethical though it may be, they remain in my bag when I enter a restaurant.

As one who spent much of his life working with the projection and recording of real music, I find it difficult to get worked up about the ethics of stripping away involuntarily endured aural wallpaper. I reserve the right to be as disrespectful to audible polution as I am to neighboring smokers and the pushers of junk food.

Then, with all due respect, you will never be granted entry to any property I should ever own.

[clothier]

. . . some among us had gone as far as to carry a pair of wire cutters.

I confess!

As one who spent much of his life working with the projection and recording of real music, I find it difficult to get worked up about the ethics of stripping away involuntarily endured aural wallpaper. I reserve the right to be as disrespectful to audible polution as I am to neighboring smokers and the pushers of junk food.

At the risk of beating this inot the ground, let me ask you this:

what would your mother say if she knew you were destroying someone else's property?

[stovetop]

As one who spent much of his life working with the projection and recording of real music, I find it difficult to get worked up about the ethics of stripping away involuntarily endured aural wallpaper. I reserve the right to be as disrespectful to audible polution as I am to neighboring smokers and the pushers of junk food.

John why do you even bother leaving your oasis; your studio of perfect music, for a world filled with lesser mortals, go to restaurants and help rid the world of such rumpus rooms, as you say: "aural wallpaper" , it amazes me that you think this is applauseable behavior.

wow! If a fourteen year boy went to a restaurant that was playing classical music, had dinner and in the midst of eating decided what the hell is this crap that oozes out of the "aural wall paper", deciding then to rid the world of the maker of that music, oh wait a minute that person is already dead, oh well he just cuts the "aural wallpaper", the authorities would probably say that something is wrong with that boy, is it the cutting out of lesser music or the action that you justify?

Two words

Disc player and head phones

There are two kinds of music, good music and bad music

Unknown writer

Long live Rock and roll

stovetop

[Busboy]

That's pretty good, but believe me, Mahler is way more efficacious.

My parents always loved to tell the story of the idyllic vacation they took on Lake Powell with my uncle and his wife. The four of them rented a houseboat and spent several days toodling around at their own pace and oohing and ahhhing at the beauty of the place. One night they had lucked into a perfect little anchorage - quiet isolated cove, shallow water, breathtaking view. No sooner do they settle in for the night than another houseboat chugs in, drops anchor just upwind of them, and starts blaring loud rock music. Uncle attempts polite request to tone it down; no dice, no response. Finally uncle trots below, brings speakers up on deck, aims them to windward. Plays recording of the "Titan" symphony at top volume.

Oddly enough, a minute or two later the people in the other boat suddenly decided to look for another anchorage.

Reminds me of our "ghetto" apartment. Honest to God, the people right under me were a pack of drug dealers who played what we called "booty tunes" constantly. Normally we could tune it out, but during finals I'd had enough. After going downstairs and screaming at them that if they could shut the damn stuff of for *one* week I'd not bitch until next semester, they agreed. At which point I return to hour 34 of wakefulness and frantic typing. Hour 37, they forgot.

Speakers to the floor, 1812 Orchestra, *repeat*.

Took them five minutes to knock it off until that Friday.

Heck, forget picnic spots. Mahler could drive me out of a concert hall!

I was once camping in Oregon at one of their many, wonderful state-owned public campsites when an oversized pickup truck dropped off a couple of frightening-looking characters and sped off -- looking for beer, one assumes. A few minutes later the sound of boom-box speed metal sort of settled over all the nearby campsites. Any music would have been out of place, drowning out the sound of Steamboat Creek and the birdsongs, but this stuff was really obnoxious in a campsite. Summoning all my courage, I approached a 40-something with a poneytailed rope of grey hair and tattoes that had been carved long before tattoes got cool again. You knew just from looking at him that he carried a knife (at least) at all times, and none of his good friends were yupppies in rented sedans with California plates: the kind of outback "local" that tend to scare city kids like me. More or less trembling, I walked into his campsite and asked if he could, please, turn the music down. "What?" he yelled. "The music's a little loud, could you turn it down some?" "Too loud? Sorry, I'm a little hard of hearing."

He turned it down and there was never a problem for the rest of the weekend. His mamma must have raised him right. And I never had to resort to Mahler.

On the larger point, I think music is part of a restaurants decor. I don't much care for loud techno-pop as I munch my mezze, but hey -- the owner has as much right to choose the volume and the variety of his music as he does to choose the food and the silverware. It's irksome when the music is out of character for th4e restaurant, and I have asked managers to turn it down, but to unilaterally impose my taste on other diners would be arrogant and inconsiderate. Restaurants, like much of life, are meant to be enjoyed on their own terms

[balmagowry]

Much depends on the nature of the restaurant, the reason for the music, and the attitude of the staff. If the music is part of a carefully-planned and -designed atmosphere, and I happen to be severely distressed by it, then clearly I shouldn't be in that restaurant to begin with, no matter how mouthwatering the foie gras (though OTOH if they serve foie gras chances are they're pretty careful about alienating the kind of customers who can afford to order it! ). If, OTOH, I'm already there peacefully enjoying my meal, and suddenly one of the waiters turns it on full blast for his own amusement, then I think I'm justified in raising a little hell; politely at first, but decreasingly so as necessary to match the tone in which my requests are met. After all, at this point I'm virtually a captive audience. If I don't get satisfaction after a courteous request - well, then, just be glad you're not anywhere near my table.

A not-entirely-parallel instance comes to mind. A few years ago after emergency abdominal surgery I was kept in intensive care for a day or so. At one point one of the innumerable IVs (in my family we pronounce this "fours" - and these were anything but petit) to which I was connected ran out of whatever poison it was supposed to be pumping into me, and promptly began beeping in a peculiarly horrid register. Usually I'm pretty good at locating the snooze button on these things, but on this occasion I was still too weak and too entangled in wires to be able to reach anything but the call button. Of which I therefore made increasingly frantic use. After an eternity or so (no, really, I clocked it), in came the nurse, and when I told her what the problem was she looked at me as if I had just sprouted a couple of extra heads. "I'll come in later and take care of it," she said. "But it's driving me crazy NOW," I replied. Ensued one hell of an argument, her stance in which was to try to explain to me that I was being unreasonable and that it couldn't possibly bother me because it didn't bother HER, in fact she could hardly hear it. Finally, after acceding to my pleas with a very ill grace, she flounced to the door, pausing there to deliver this Parthian shot: "WELL! All I can say is, you must have VERY sensitive ears!" To which I replied, "Yes, I do, and if you don't mind I would like to keep them that way."

(In fairness be it noted: other than that the staff there was wonderful. And my doctor was not amused by this incident: I suspect that nurse got an earful about it afterward, and can only hope her subsequent patients benefited.)

I bring this up not so much because of any obvious similarity in the two situations, but because it underlines another factor in the overall problem:

Summoning all my courage, I approached a 40-something with a poneytailed rope of grey hair and tattoes that had been carved long before tattoes got cool again.  You knew just from looking at him that he carried a knife (at least) at all times, and none of his good friends were yupppies in rented sedans with California plates: the kind of outback "local" that tend to scare city kids like me.  More or less trembling, I walked into his campsite and asked if he could, please, turn the music down.  "What?" he yelled.  "The music's a little loud, could you turn it down some?"  "Too loud?  Sorry, I'm a little hard of hearing."

This guy who was hard of hearing may well have been so as a result of listening to loud music! And who knows, perhaps the same applied to my recalcitrant nurse (who still should have conceded that such things are subjective, but at least it would help to explain why she thought I was off my nut); undoubtedly it also applies to a lot of other people who listen to extremely loud music because it's the only thing they can still (still!) hear. Somewhere Out There is a statistic whose details I disremember, but whose gist was that during the past [x] years the Navy has been virtually unable to recruit candidates for the post of sonar operator, because the young men who came in were unable to hear the necessary frequencies. Why? Need I say? I think not.

The point being that the noise levels which may seem normal to many people can be literally acutely painful to those of us whose hearing is more or less intact. Which is often the reason that this particular controversy can wax so acrimonious.

Speaking of wax - here is one possible solution for a really captive audience. I do not, however, think one should have to resort to it when one is paying for the meal....

Oh, and BTW - if you need to blast someone à la houseboat and are concerned about the consequences, always remember the words of George Santayana:

The music of Wagner is perfectly legal.

Edited March 27, 2004 by balmagowry (log)

[Emily Kaiser]

Was it the Times that did a story a few years ago on restaurant music and daily till, that included a hilarious interview with the Gypsy Kings who said that yes, even they got a little tired of always hearing themselves in restaurants. Seems the Kings more than any other artist appealed to every level of restaurant and retail spot.

[John Whiting]

Then, with all due respect, you will never be granted entry to any property I should ever own.

I hope that you will regularly provide me with an up-to-date list of your properties so that I can avoid giving offense.

To assuage the delicate feelings of indignant wallpaper-lovers, let me refer you back to my previous postings. At no point did I say that I had actually cut a speaker cable. It is a right which under certain circumstances I would claim but have never exercised. I have twice in my long hell-raising life unplugged a speaker cable that was easily reachable directly over my head; I hope that St. Peter has not added this to his list of my sins requiring purgatorial expiation.

From “Perception, Good Taste, Quiet Music”, a talk given by composer/critic/restaurateur Charles Shere at an ecology conference in Aix en Provence in 1998:

All music sounds alike. I don’t mean the music we listen to; I mean the music we hear. We are continually assaulted by music: in shops, airplanes, elevators, restaurants. Much of this music is broadcast in the attempt to cover noise, or distract our attention from it. And indeed we live in an increasingly noisy environment. In the cities traffic noise has become dangerous. And our recent obsession with security has added new noises: the backup beeper, the car alarm. With the result that we prefer our music to be louder and louder, either the better to distract us from the noise, or in order to assert our own power. Who has not heard the car drive by, all its sheet metal reverberating, shaking our viscera with its nearly subsonic thudding beat? So we raise our voices to be better heard in the noisy environment, thereby making it noisier; or we exclude or overcome random background noise: we hold cellular telephones to our ears in crowded restaurants; we play cassettes and CDs in our cars, the windows closed, the air conditioning whirring.

Edited March 28, 2004 by John Whiting (log)

[John Whiting]

Was it the Times that did a story a few years ago on restaurant music and daily till . . .

From Fine Food Digest, 4-5:

Ravel with your ratatouille, sir?

Classical music played in a restaurant makes diners ‘think rich’ according to research carried out by the University of Leicester. At Softley’s Restaurant in Market Bosworth, Vivaldi’s Four Seasons [salt, pepper, tabasco and soya sauce?] nudged diners into spending more than £24 a head, while Britney Spears [asparagus?] took the average down to £22. Alas, no music at all lowered it even further to £21.10.

So try it in your deli. The banquet scene from Don Giovanni could raise your customers’ sights from Danish blue to Roquefort.