buying and preparing fish/seafood

[Akiko]

Has anyone ever tried Turtle? I'm curious to know how it tastes and why it is considered a delicacy.

There is a restaurant in Kyoto called Daiichi that I've heard good things about, but with the courses starting at 2 man 2 sen yen I want to know what I'm getting myself in for!

[Kiem Hwa]

On Burari (TV show), the host ate some soft-shelled turtle soup/juice on some backstreet shop somewhere near Sugamo station, along Yamanote line in Tokyo. They put the entire turtle (smallish turtles - about 8-inches or so long) into the pot and boiled them. It is eaten for health I think, the woman serving it showed how nice her skin was after eating this soup for so long.

Please inform us if you decide to eat it and how it was!!!! (Take pics)

EDITED: to add Sugamo station, along Yamanote line

Edited January 22, 2005 by Kiem Hwa (log)

[torakris]

Suppon is the name of the Japanese snapping turtle that you are most likely to find on menus.

Daiichi is probably one of the most famous (and most expensive) restaurants that specializes in suppon, here are some great pictures of one person's meal there:

http://joi.typepad.com/weblog/2003/04/japanese_suppon.html

You can find suppon courses as different restaurants all over Japan for much cheaper, courses can be found in the 8,000 to 12,000 yen range ($80-$120) per person.

Here is what you come up with if you type suppon ryouri (snapping turtle cooking) into yahoo Japan:

http://search.yahoo.co.jp/bin/search?p=%A4....x=0&search.y=0

[Kiem Hwa]

Well, I am quite relieved to find out that the consumed suppon turtles are mostly farmed:

Thus, I would definately try this (If I can afford it).

http://www.nmfs.noaa.gov/trade/Japan98Soft...urtleMarket.htm

The only thing I could never bring myself to eat is endagered species!

[easternsun]

i have been trying to figure out if there is halibut in japan and how to say it.

my pops is coming, so i am planning to make all his fave foods. halibut and chips would be one of them.

i have tried talking to so many people about it, but no one seems to understand what i mean.

please help!

[torakris]

Halibut isn't common in Japan as it isn't found in local waters, it is shipped into the country but I don't recall ever seeing it.

It is called ohyou (pronounced like oh-hyo, with a long o on the end) オヒョウ

Here is a list of some halibut/flouders with the English and Japanese names (as well as French and the scientific names)

[helenjp]

Curses, I lost my reply...so once again...

It may depend on what your father is referring to as halibut!

California halibut is a type of left-eyed flounder of the type known as "hirame" in Japan.

Paralichthys olivaceus is the most common type of hirame, and does not have very firm flesh, but it is more finely textured than "karei" or right-eyed flounder. Karei are often pleuronectes-family fish.

The "ohyou" is a true halibut, known as the Pacific halibut, and not very common in Japan - found mostly in Hokkaido, and even there, not a common commercial variety. However, I did spot one in the local supermarket about 2 days ago!

What is called "Greenland turbot" in the US apparently, is a true halibut, known elsewhere as Greenland halibut. Here's a picture of a chef in Greenland having an enjoyable conversation with one...

Halibuts are firmer than most flounders, especially in spring/summer, since they come from colder waters, which may be why "flounder and chips" in New Zealand is usually served as a whole deepfried flounder. (Yum! )

Edited February 20, 2005 by helenjp (log)

[easternsun]

Curses, I lost my reply...so once again...

It may depend on what your father is referring to as halibut!

California halibut is a type of left-eyed flounder of the type known as "hirame" in Japan.

Paralichthys olivaceus is the most common type of hirame, and does not have very firm flesh, but it is more finely textured than "karei" or right-eyed flounder. Karei are often pleuronectes-family fish.

The "ohyou" is a true halibut, known as the Pacific halibut, and not very common in Japan - found mostly in Hokkaido, and even there, not a common commercial variety. However, I did spot one in the local supermarket about 2 days ago!

What is called "Greenland turbot" in the US apparently, is a true halibut, known elsewhere as Greenland halibut. Here's a picture of a chef in Greenland having an enjoyable conversation with one...

Halibuts are firmer than most flounders, especially in spring/summer, since they come from colder waters, which may be why "flounder and chips" in New Zealand is usually served as a whole deepfried flounder. (Yum! )

←

thanks for the replies...once torakris said it, "ohyou" is definitely what i am after. i immediately recalled a conversation i once had with a japanese fisherman who spends a month in canada every year. that is what he called it too. funny thing, i checked several dictionaries - no halibut! thanks for the translation!

i am from the west coast of canada - hence, the search for pacific halibut. fish and chips on the beach, wrapped in newspaper - and it must be halibut! it is a family thing that goes back a few generations! hirame and karei are lovely, but not what i am after. i might just ask him to bring along some fish on the plane!

thanks for the tips ladies! i will have a chat with the folks at the fish market

[Matsusaka Ushi]

I happened to have decided to skin my salmon before cooking it so that I could save the skin for another day to make either salmon skin rolls (one of my favorites... now if I was only any good at rolling nori) or perhaps a salmon skin salad. I've been looking around on the net to try to find a good recipe for a salad, but so far it has just been basic ingredients(greens/seaweed, cucumber, carrots, radish, sesame, ginger)

I know this should be very easy, but I'd like to try to do it properly. If anyone has any info about traditional preperation for salmon skin and salmon skin salads I would appreciate the info.

[smallworld]

Hmm. I'm not sure if you'll be able to find a "traditional" recipe for salman skin salad. I've seen it only a few times in Japan, in trendy fusion type places or maybe an izakaya.

When I want to add salmon skin to a salad, I usually just grill it really carefully (it burns easily). I'm sure baking in a hot oven or grilling in a toaster oven would work too. If it's not salted salmon, I'll just sprinkle a little salt on the inside of the skin first.

I love salmon skin rolls, but have never seen them in Japan.

[torakris]

I have always wondered where this salmon skin thing came from..

I don't think I have seen it here, of course I don't get out too much...

I did notice it was very popular in the US last summer, with rolls, salds, etc... I tried the roll but wasn't really impressed.

I tried popping it into a Japanese search engine and just came up with a bunch of restaurants in the US that offer it on their menu, most of the recipes I found in Japanese that referred to salmon skin were saying 'remove the skin and the bones from the salmon...'

I really don't know of a "traditional" prep for this and personally I always leave the skin on my dish

[helenjp]

I reeled in a couple of large, juicy goma-saba at the supermarket yesterday (it was actually quite a feat, and took DS2 and I several minutes, as they were so slippery and heavy ).

Just about to bake them with herbs as I tend to do in summer when I don't want the rich miso recipes associated with winter ma-saba varieties, when I started to wonder what other Japanese dishes there are for this fish. DH is paranoid about parasites in saba, so we no longer eat it raw.

Looking forward to hearing more, as we are on a Vitamin D binge just at present, and will surely be eating plenty of fish for a while yet.

Note: ma-saba or ao-saba: chub mackerel, atlantic mackerel etc.

goma-saba: blue mackerel or pacific mackerel, sometimes spotted mackerel or spanish mackerel, though "spotted mackerel" is also used to refer to "sawara" (a type of seerfish), and "spanish mackerel" is happily applied to any fish that looks a bit like a mackerel, as far as I can tell!

[russ parsons]

this is a very timely post for me because i'm working on a piece on mackerel (mostly purchased from japanese groceries). i have been a little confused by the labeling. here's what i've found (feel free to correct me):

Aji, which is usually labeled as Spanish mackerel, is Tracherus japonicus, jack mackerel or horse mackerel, not Spanish mackerel.

Sanma is Cololabis saira, saury pike or pike mackerel.

True Spanish mackerel (Scomberomorus maculatus) is Sawara. There is also something called Japanese Spanish mackerel, which is Scomberomorus niphonius.

King mackerel is Scomberomorus cavalla

Saba seems to be a variety of fish. Either Scomber australasicus or Scomber japonicus (one’s I’ve seen seem to be scomber japonicus).

anyone have anything to add?

[torakris]

we have discussed all of these fish in length on the Daily Nihongo thread

saba starts here

sawara (Spanish mackeral) starts here

aji starts here

I haven't gotten to sanma (saury pike)yet...

[helenjp]

True Spanish mackerel (Scomberomorus maculatus) is Sawara. There is also something called Japanese Spanish mackerel, which is Scomberomorus niphonius.

I think S. niphonius is sawara, and S. maculatus gets called sawara because of its close resemblance...

S. australasicus is blue mackerel, though I think it goes by other names too.

Personally, I would avoid using the term "horse mackerel" if I could, because it is used for quite a variety of fish.

Aji is often called "yellowtail", haven't seen it called horse mackerel, but then I haven't seen Japanese restaurants in the US.

we have discussed all of these fish

The dried or salt-grilled styles in that thread are best with ma-saba, because of the extra fat, though of course they're not too bad with goma-saba either.

I'm hoping to find recipes for cooked goma-saba, nanban-zuke is a good call! About the only other thing I do with it is a curry-flavored tatsuta-age...but I plan to try a kind of coarse-chopped satsuma-age/fish patty.

[torakris]

True Spanish mackerel (Scomberomorus maculatus) is Sawara. There is also something called Japanese Spanish mackerel, which is Scomberomorus niphonius.

←

I think you have this reversed.

S. niphonis (aka Japanese Spanish mackeral) is the true sawara.

This is the fish that is native to Japanese waters, I am not sure how much Spanish mackeral (from the Atlantic) is actually eaten in Japan. Putting S. macalatus into a Japanese search engine brings up only a little and the corresponding name in Japanese is just Spanish mackeral written in katakana (the Japanese "alphabet" for foreign words).

[Hiroyuki]

Does any of the dishes here attract you?

http://www.agri.pref.chiba.jp/nourinsui/12...ata/ryori/saba/

I'd like mine simply grilled with salt, please!

[torakris]

I was going to make the nanban-zuke but I inadvertantly threw the deep frying oil into the trash ( I hardened it first) in my rush to get the garbage out forgetting I was going to use it again that night....

I I did it Korean style instead, simmered in a kochujang based sauce with moyashi (bean sprouts), shiitake and mizuna.

[helenjp]

We're having saba with salt tonight - though I think it's best made with ma-saba.

Hiroyuki, I notice a recipe in your link for saba simmered in soy-based seasonings, then dried and deep friend and garnished with negi-miso. I remember that this is a great style of cooking for fancy bento, so I must try it with saba.

Torakris, love that saba and kochujang...must go and buy another saba!

[budrichard]

I have some live tsubugai (whelk?) from Japan. I think that they need to be simmered in a liquid and then removed like snails, chilled and the serve as nigri sushi lightly scored. I don't believe they are served raw as sashimi. Does anyone have any actual experience in preparing this univalve? If it is to be cooked, what type of broth should I use? Thanks for your reply.-Dick

[torakris]

you can eat them raw but this isn't something I would prepare for myself...

My favorite way of eating them is tsuboyaki, this is usually done on a BBQ but I am sure you could do it under a broiler or even in a frypan if need be.

Just place the tsubugai on the grill and drip a bit of soy, sake, mirin (in any combination you like) inside and cook until done., pull out the meat and eat.

They can also be lightly boiled and mixed together (or served) with a vegetable of your liking with any kind of dressing.

I have also eaten them skewered from an oden pot.

[Hiroyuki]

Sorry, I don't know much about tsubugai, but Japanese-language sources warn that the salivary glands of tsubugai contain a toxin called tetramine and must be removed before cooking.

http://www.pref.osaka.jp/shokuhin/baigai/baigai.html

Scroll down; the red circles indicate where the salivary glands are located.

Another webpage:

http://www.city.sapporo.jp/hokenjo/f2syokuhin/f111tubu.html

Again, the red circles indicate where they are located.

Can anyone find English-language sources?

[budrichard]

Thank you for the information. This is the first I have heard about poison sources so until I can find definitive information on whether to prepare, the Tsubugai stays on ice! I am not confident that I can remove any poisonous parts without an expert teaching me. -Dick

[torakris]

You don't by chance have the scientifuc name of the particular tsubugai that you have?

here is some more information:

Another class of toxins found in some whelks are the neurotoxins. Some species of whelk stun their prey with a poison in order to render their prey helpless. These toxins affect the nervous system of both the shellfish prey and humans who eat venomous whelks. In our waters only the "ten-ridged" whelk, Neptunea decemcostata, is venomous. The waved whelk (Buccinum undatum), is not venomous and instead smothers its prey when feeding. The moonsnail (or drill), (Euspira heros), drills a hole in the shell of its prey causing the animal to open. Neither of these species possesses venomous toxins. Harvesting of the venomous whelk is prohibited. This means that Neptunea cannot be landed. Other whelks such as Colus have not been certified as venomous; however, they will be treated as venomous until further information can be obtained.

from here

after reading a bit more on the net, I am thinking (at least hoping) that the tsubugai available in stores are of the non-poisonous kind. Doing a search of whelk recipes pulls up many recipes and none of them mention removing poison...

Many these warnings are there for those who are out collecting them from the ocean on their own?

[budrichard]

You are probably correct and that the species being sold is non poisonous. I eat a lot of things but draw the line at potentially poisonous food which is why I don't eat Fugu and now I don't eat Tsubugai. The probability of being poisoned is very small but the probability still exists. Thanks for the information and replys!-Dick