Favorite places to get the [definitive] New York hot dog

[John]

Holly,

I spoke with the guy at Charlies Pool Room and he said that someone told him you were coming for a visit soon. A lot of people have mentioned this place as having great dogs. I think part of the attraction here is the atmosphere (like Hot Dog Johnny's); only this is an old white shingled house with squeaky hardwood floors that used to be a jail. One pool table and one table to eat on. And they only serve hot dogs. The other thing that people rave about is the secret Hungarian sauce. Developed by the owner's grandmother in 1925 it contains onions, ring peppers, hot peppers, celery, tomatoes, ketchup, mustard, salt, pepper, and a secret ingredient. I hate onions, so will probably just look at and sniff the sauce. Maybe force myself to taste some. The dogs themselves are Kunzler's beef and pork. I've had them and they are ok, not the best beef and pork dog available. From Pa. along with Berk's (which I prefer) that is used at Toby's Cup. These 2 brands are widely available in West Jersey and Pa. Around here, you can get Berks at the Acme, but Kunzler's only sells the Chicken franks. I got mine in Lancaster.

I assume that the dogs will be ok; nothing out of the ordinary, but because of the famous sauce and ambience of this place, it has sort of a cult following. Recently the BBC in England visited and did a piece on them. They heard about Charlies from the Star Ledger review that was in last year's Munchmobile. They (BBC) also visted Law Dogs in California and 2 other places that I think were featured on the Hot Dog Program.

I spoke with the owner of this place who acknowledges that a lot of his local customers are from North East Jersey and rave about the places here. He knows Rutt's, Galloping Hill, etc. by name although he hasn't been out here. He fries his dogs in a frying pan on the stove as they are ordered. Most places in West Jersey/Pa. steam or boil them. Toby's deep fries theirs.

As for Grey's/Papaya King; both use the same Sabrett 10 to a lb dog. According to the guy in charge of private label at Marathon, they have the same ordering code on the box. Katz's dogs are larger (8 to a lb). When I went to Manhatten about 2 years ago, I tried all 3 places. The dogs were very similar, being the same brand and cooked the same way, but the Katz's dog wasn't cooked long enough. Same problem as a lot of Nathan's.

Since I'm on vacation and won't have my family with me until Friday, this is my time for hot dog research. Yesterday I took some Nathan's, Best's, Sabrett, and Thumann's (their all beef dog) and cooked them on a griddle, while I cooked the larger Best's (5 to a lb like Syd's) and another Sabrett's on the backyard grill. All were great, and I would say of the same high quality. Differences were slight, and they were due to different spicings. The Best dog definitely tasted better on the grill. I liked this one the best. Identical to Syd's. I didn't care for it on the griddle, though. Not as much flavor as the others. This was the biggest difference. Nathan's and Sabrett taste great on the griddle and I would be hard pressed to say which I like better. I always preferred the Sabrett, because Gray's and Papaya King cook their dogs enough. Nathan's is great if you get one well done. The Thumann's had a unique subtle spicing that I liked. Just as good as the other 2 but slightly different; very slight. I think that I may be suffering from palate overload. I swear, after this week I won't look at a hot dog for at least a week. Maybe 2.

[bpearis]

What with the annual Fourth of July Hot Dog Eating Contest at Coney Island this weekend and the opening of the Shake Shack, hot dogs have been on my mind lately.

Like many, if it's a classic NYC hotdog I'm going to Grey's Papaya or maybe Katz's.

But I must admit I like a lot of the non-traditional ones as well. Crif Dogs in the East Village makes one of my favorites: the Chihauha, which has a bacon-wrapped dog, deep-fried and then topped with guacamole and sour cream. It is best eaten drunk at 2am.

My current favorite, though, is the Kimchee Hot Dog made at this Izakaya/sake bar in Williamsburg called Snacky. They use a slightly sweet chinese bun, a little spicy mayo and lots of kimchee. It's such an obvious idea -- kimchee on a hot dog -- I'm suprised no one's thought of it before. It's really something else. I'm not sure if it's worth a special trip, but if you're in the neighborhood you should definitely stop by and have one. (dinner only).

Any other funky dogs worth trying?

-bill

[Cleo]

Not really an answer to your question, but did anybody catch "A Hot Dog Program" on Channel 13? It was on this past Sunday (and repeated Monday and Tuesday). My husband and I were jonesing for hot dogs after watching it! And am I mistaken, or was Fat-Guy on the show talking about Papaya King and Gray's Papaya?

Here's the description from the PBS website:

A Hot Dog Program

This documentary is an all-American celebration of what may be the country's most popular food. From Fairfield, Connecticut, to Los Angeles, California, the program visits some of the nation's coolest hot dog places, taking viewers inside a giant hot dog-shaped building, stopping at some crazy late-night stands and looking at how hot dogs are made. The special also considers how and when hot dogs became so popular — and surveys the toppings that go on them.

If it's on again, don't miss it..it was great!

[alacarte]

F&B!!!

do they still have the salmon hot dog with caviar and creme fraiche?

[Blondie]

When I saw this thread I thought had seen a newish hot dog place on Orchard just south of Houston. So, for the greater good, I checked it out on my way home. It's called The Dog House. Menupages has them listed here.

I tried the Sourpuss dog. Excellent beefy flavor, juicy and delicious (they use Best's - grilled), with the perfect amount of cheese for me (not too much) and crisp half-sour pickles. Very good dog - it was $2.50.

The side order that seemed most interesting was the smoked mac and cheese, which I'm told is made with cheddar and smoked gouda. I'm sure some hot dog purists will chafe at the cutesy names and some of the menu items (smoked tofu dog with avocado, cucumber and tomato), but I'll try it again.

The Dog House

192 Orchard between Houston and Stanton

212-477-7003

[Blondie]

A guy at work just told me about a cart with great dogs (including with kimchi) that sets up on Ludlow and Stanton on Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. Here's an article from the New York Sun, and his own webpage.

[bpearis]

A guy at work just told me about a cart with great dogs (including with kimchi) that sets up on Ludlow and Stanton on Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. Here's an article from the New York Sun, and his own webpage.

Well I guess when I said "why didn't anyone think of the kimchee dog before," in reference to Snacky's version, I guess somebody did think of it before. Or around the same time, at least. I wonder whose came first.

The version at Snacky really works, for me at least, because the little details. The Chinese bun is slightly sweet and the spicy mayo is tangy so you get the whole hot sour salty sweet thing going (though not in a Southeast Asian kind of way, more a Japanese Korean vibe).

I haven't been to F&B in a while, but it's near my new job so maybe a trip today is warranted.

[Blondie]

I haven't been to F&B in a while, but it's near my new job so maybe a trip today is warranted.

Congratulations on the new job! I just started a new one too, but there's nothing decent to eat nearby

[NJRay]

For "Funky" try Crif Dogs located at 113 Saint Marks Place in New York City

212 614 2728

Here is a list of the more Funky Dogs they offer, if you are daring try and mix and match the toppings, I recomend the Spicy Redneck, bacon wrapped deep fried crunchy topped with chilli, cole slaw, and jalapeno.

Click here to see the menu.

Edited July 1, 2004 by slkinsey (log)

[Holly Moore]

When I saw this thread I thought had seen a newish hot dog place on Orchard just south of Houston. So, for the greater good, I checked it out on my way home. It's called The Dog House. Menupages has them listed here.

The Dog House's menu claims a "Philly Beef Dog" to be an "all beef frankfurter topped with Cheese, Sauteed Onions and Mushrooms" with optional jalapeno peppers.

I've eaten a dog or two in Philly and I know Philly hot dogs. This, Mr. Quayle is no Philly hot dog. Maybe it's a dog with cheesesteak toppings, but if so, lose the mushrooms. Only tourists and newbees eat cheesesteaks with mushrooms.

Most typical Philly hot dog would be a Texas Wiener, with Texas Wiener Sauce (like Coney Island sauce, very similar to all-the-way sauce), diced raw onions and mustard.

If I was making a Philly Beef Dog, I'd probably top it with sliced steak and cheeze whiz (as in cheese steak). That's a Philly Beef Dog. Not my idea, by the way. Eddies Drive-In in Phillipsburg NJ serves one, but timidly, sans CheezeWhiz.

Edited July 1, 2004 by Holly Moore (log)

[Holly Moore]

The dog house also serves a tofu hot dog.

I'm sorry, but no. Being a vegetarian involves sacrafice. Noble sacrafice. Don't cheapen it by eating fake foods like a tofu hot dog.

Edited July 1, 2004 by Holly Moore (log)

[Fat Guy]

Old Homestead has:

GRILLED KOBE BEEF FRANKFURTER

Kobe beef chili, bell peppers & Vidalia onions

19.00

Also, Sparky's in Williamsburg has franks made from dry-aged beef.

Sparky's American Food

135A North 5th Street (Williamsburg/Greenpoint)

Between Berry and Bedford Aves.

718-302-5151

[Holly Moore]

Old Homestead has:

GRILLED KOBE BEEF FRANKFURTER

Kobe beef chili, bell peppers & Vidalia onions

19.00

Also, Sparky's in Williamsburg has franks made from dry-aged beef.

Sparky's American Food

135A North 5th Street (Williamsburg/Greenpoint)

Between Berry and Bedford Aves.

718-302-5151

Any comments on either? My sense is that kobe beef won't contribute to a hot dog. Dry aged beef might have some flavor impact, but not sure if it would be noticable in a typical, premium, highly seasoned hot dog.

[Fat Guy]

Haven't had either. Contributing for informational purposes only.

[slkinsey]

Note that they never seem to advertise the ingredients of real, tasty hot dogs...

Our hot dogs are made from the finest lips and assholes

[bpearis]

Haven't had either. Contributing for informational purposes only.

I live in Williamsburg and have been to Sparky's a few times. They're good but I think the bun, which is baked especially for them, may be too good. And too big. Sort of takes away from the hot dog. They do have great purple cabbage slaw, however, and the hot dog chili is the real thing (no beans!). The fresh-cut fries are soggy with grease, which isn't always a bad thing...

Also in Williamsburg is Coney's (Bedford btwn Grand and South 1), which replicates Coney Island favorites -- from foot-longs to fried clam rolls. They're nice people but the dogs leave something to be desired.

[Blondie]

The dog house also serves a tofu hot dog.

I'm sorry, but no.  Being a vegetarian involves sacrafice.  Noble sacrafice.  Don't cheapen it by eating fake foods like a tofu hot dog.

For what it's worth, you wouldn't catch me dead eating a tofu dog.

Honestly, most of the combinations on The Dog House's menu don't appeal to me at all, but the one with a little cheese and pickles was excellent.

[hrowe]

I must say that the vegidog at Crif Dogs is very tasty. Must be all the bacon fat in the fryolator....

[bleachboy]

I have eaten a Kobe beef hot dog here in Nashville, and was impressed with the dog, but not the beef. I couldn't tell any difference at all.

One of my favorites in Texas when I was a teenager was this place that served a hamburger with a hot dog on it and chili on top. Possibly the messiest food item ever.

[Fat Guy]

Theoretically it does seem that using premium beef in a sausage-type product would be of limited benefit flavorwise. However, I've often been surprised at how much better things taste when their components are the best available. Certainly the tenderness of Wagyu beef is irrelevant to a hot dog, because a hot dog is made from a puree. Its high fat content is also irrelevant because when you make a puree the amount of fat in the blend can be controlled simply by adding fat. However, if that beef is of better quality in other ways, and especially if the spicing is restrained, there's no reason not to think it might be evident on the palate. Only a taste test would tell. It might also be more wholesome.

With beef, when an animal is Prime or of a certain species or raised according to certain standards (natural, organic, Kobe-style, etc.), the whole animal has those properties. Yet mostly it is the small percentage of meat from the short loin and rib section that fetches a premium at market. Those who produce high-quality beef are always looking for ways to maintain the brand name or designation with the less popular cuts. Thus we see the new New York Burger Co. using Coleman Natural Beef for its burgers. And it's no surprise that there have been several attempts to brand hot dogs similarly: Niman Ranch, Lobel's, etc.

[Jason Perlow]

While I think Kobe beef is likley overkill for a hot dog, I actually think that Bison makes a very good hot dog (and a damn good Kosher salami as well). The sweeter, leaner meat lends really well to it.

[Fat Guy]

Yes, I've been buying the kosher bison dogs from Abeles & Heymann that they sell at Fairway. They have a great meaty flavor. I'm surprised no restaurant is using them, or at least I don't know of one.

[Gifted Gourmet]

Have yet to try the kosher bison meat products but can see that bison/buffalo items are making their move in the kosher meats nowadays:

Pricey but probably well worth it

Edited July 3, 2004 by Gifted Gourmet (log)

[Jason Perlow]

Yes, I've been buying the kosher bison dogs from Abeles & Heymann that they sell at Fairway. They have a great meaty flavor. I'm surprised no restaurant is using them, or at least I don't know of one.

I haven't had the dogs but I have had their Bison salami. Its pricey, but it makes a hell of a salami sandwich. Not sure if I want to go back to the standard Hebrew National now.

http://abeles-heymann.com/pictures.htm

[John]

Theoretically it does seem that using premium beef in a sausage-type product would be of limited benefit flavorwise. However, I've often been surprised at how much better things taste when their components are the best available. Certainly the tenderness of Wagyu beef is irrelevant to a hot dog, because a hot dog is made from a puree. Its high fat content is also irrelevant because when you make a puree the amount of fat in the blend can be controlled simply by adding fat. However, if that beef is of better quality in other ways, and especially if the spicing is restrained, there's no reason not to think it might be evident on the palate. Only a taste test would tell. It might also be more wholesome.

With beef, when an animal is Prime or of a certain species or raised according to certain standards (natural, organic, Kobe-style, etc.), the whole animal has those properties. Yet mostly it is the small percentage of meat from the short loin and rib section that fetches a premium at market. Those who produce high-quality beef are always looking for ways to maintain the brand name or designation with the less popular cuts. Thus we see the new New York Burger Co. using Coleman Natural Beef for its burgers. And it's no surprise that there have been several attempts to brand hot dogs similarly: Niman Ranch, Lobel's, etc.

I've had Niman Ranch and Lobel's hot dogs. Good, but indestinguishable from other decent all beef franks. Not standouts like say, Usinger's or Best's 5 count or Sabrett. I do think the spicing might even be more important than using the higest quality beef. I've compared Usinger's regular beef wiener with the angus one. Same recipe and spicing, only difference is that one uses certified angus beef. They taste the same to me although the one with angus beef may be a tad juicier. I get the angus dogs because there is little difference in price, in fact the angus beef franks (2 oz or 8 to a lb) are $4.48/lb while the same size non angus beef franks are $4.49/lb. Maybe they get a break on angus beef. Lobel's uses prime beef, but has a very subtle spicing for a beef dog. Not bland by any means, I just like a little more spice. And no way in hell worth $14.99/lb. I suppose that is because of the prime beef used. If you want a dog similar in taste and spicing to Lobel's, go with Boar's Head natural casing beef franks.