General Restaurant Advice for Spain

[DonWalsh x]

thinking of a trip to spain costa del sol...is this the best place to go in spain and what's there to eat...

[Jason Perlow x]

Well, the Costa Del Sol is the most attractive place to go in spain tourist wise due tot he fact its right on the Mediterranean, and it does have its share of great places to eat. Torremolinos is the most touristy area, so you'd probably want to stay away from there.

I'm going to be in Marbella in October, which is just south of Malaga, on the eastern side of the southern coast. Its approximately 100 miles away from Jerez and the sherry growing region, if you're into that, and both Marbella and Malaga have great little local restaurants, primarily seafood. Paellas are a huge speciality there, cooked in huge pans with rice and mixed seafood and all kinds of stuff.

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Jason Perlow -- Director eGullet.com Community

[DonWalsh x]

thanks, will have more questions as trip shapes up...

[Bux x]

I won't pretend to be expert on either food or tourism in Spain and have not been south of Madrid in thirty-five years. In the past three or four years our travels have been restricted to the very north of Spain. My two cents follow nevertheless. In the midle sixties I found much of the Mediterranean coast highly geared to British and German vacationers looking for the sun and the comforts of home. I found much of it over built although many towns had enough projects underway to double the their size with new hotels.  I suspect all that I saw has been dwarfed by new construction.

The interior of Andalucia was quite memorable however for the both the Moorish architecture as well as the Christian.  There is also something about sipping a Sherry in Jerez de la Frontera, or better yet, a Manzanila in Sanlucar de Barrameda.  My best memories of food that far back were of paella and fried squid, as well as tapas with a Fino Sherry or Manzanilla.

Although it's not the region of production, I suspect you will be able to find good examples of Spanish cured pork products.  The best of  Spanish hams are outrageously expensive, but worth it, and even the average product will put most other hams to shame. The dried chorizos as well as the ones for cooking are splendid, even in competition with the fresh seafood.

My dislike for tourists aside, (remember that they congregate for good reason, in places that are attractive) Barcelona is one of my favorite cities to visit.

In terms of food, especially at the highest levels, the finest restaurants in Spain are in the Basque Country and Catalunya where you will find three star restaurants and the highest concentrations of starred restaurants.  No doubt this has been a factor in our travel plans lately, although the proximity to France hasn't hurt.

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http://www.worldtable.com

[dweller]

Going to Barcelona for 2 days in February. Not looking for 3 star -- cafe's, buffets, nice places for cakes and ice cream and Catalonian sweet stuff.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

[Bux]

We had superb seafood, albeit simply prepared and in simple surroundings (actually it was at an outdoor table by the beach in May) at Can Majo. Nothing fancy, but really fresh seafood. In terms of elegance, Michelin lists it as one step up from a tapas bar as the simplest level of restaurant. It's in La Barceloneta on a corner about midway along the beach. Excellent fresh seafood is never cheap in Spain, even in fishing villages, but you can avoid lobster and the more expensive crustaceans and still eat well.

[Danielle]

dweller: my previous impression of Spain (1991) is that food is to be avoided (we stuck to tapas), except in Barcelona where we liked neighborhood eateries, and especially "7 puertas" in the Gothic Quarter, where you can overdose on at least 20 different kinds of  paella.  We are going back at the beginning of January, and I hope someone can make suggestions for Bilbao and Barcelona: I am hoping that in 10 years food has improved.

Please, advice and addresses!

Danielle

[Bux]

My first visit to Spain was as a student. I remember little except a drunken week running the bulls and discovering paella in Barcelona. My next trip was in 1964 shortly after we were married. In all honesty, I disliked most of what I ate with the exception of paella and squid, both fried and en su tinta. I was especially disappointed with Spanish Basque food. It may have been my budget, it may have been my ignorance or it may be that Spanish food has changed. We've returned in the past few years to tour the North from Barcelona to Galicia and have loved most of the food we've found. Some of our success may be due to some great pointers I was able to pick up from a food critic in Madrid. Much of my new found appreciation is also due to a greater sophisitication on my part as well as the contrast of Spanish regional food with the homogenization of French food. I also accompanied my wife on business to Madrid on a couple of trips where I came to realize that Spain has the greatest cured meats in all of Europe. France, Italy and Germany may have their hams and sausages (fresh and dried) but nothing compares with Spanish ham and cured meats in my opinion. Still it can be hit or miss in Spain. Many dishes leave me flat and some of the food can be quite dull.

In addition to Can Majo mentioned in my other post above, we really enjoyed Ca L’Isidre, Les Flors 12, phone 34-93 241 11 39. It's in the Barrio Chino, a not particularly upscale neighborhood and we'd been advised to go at lunch. Although the area didn't seem particularly dangerous, I'll pass that along.

North of Barcelona, El Raco de Can Fabes is a Michelin three star restaurant and I can only say that if it were in Paris, it would still rate three stars. I don't know if it's accessible without a car and as far as I know there's no place to stay in town. We drove up for lunch. It's about a half hour away from Barcelona. On the whole, I've found the Michelin guide reliable in Spain although there may be other guides that are better.

When we were in Bilbao with friends, a couple of years ago, we ate at Goizeko Kabi. Some of food was dull, but some of it sparkled. Sauces, both brown and bechamels, were heavy, but a roasted pigeon served rare with its roasting juices was exceptional. A plate of white beans with chorizos and blood sausage ordered by one of our companions was one of the cheapest things on the menu and emminantly satisfying. I believe there are some new places in Bilbao which is changing as a result of the increased tourism. I seem to recall that some San Sebastian chefs had opened restaurants in Bilboa.

[Danielle]

Bux, thank you, I am glad you have recent experiences in Spain.  My impressions of Michelin in Germany were very poor as the food there is also terrible, so Michelin gave stars to French restaurants, such as in Munich.  We will have a car, so we can drive out of town.  I'll let you know what it was like.  By the way, I seem to recall you made hotel recommendations, so we were going to stay at the Avenida Palace, but then I discovered a description of the Claris (19th cent. facade, and contemporary interior) and decided to go there: the hotels have not dropped their prices in Spain!

[Bux]

The Avenida Palace is fine, but the Claris is finer.  A bit more expensive as well. ;)  It may be a few blacks less centrally located, but very well located nevertheless.

Don't miss the markets. Mercat de la Boqueria just off La Rambla is the best known, but we happaned to chance upon another that seemed bigger if not better, I believe it was the one on Mallorca and Cassanova.

[Danielle]

Terrific! Muchos gracias!  

[Danielle]

While Bux and Robert K. think about a sight about Spain and Italy and their food and culture, come on, let's start talking about Spain here, Italy maybe on another page.  Easy for me, we were just in Northern Spain(Jan. 1 to 6), and all inall, it was wonderful.  Actually, I am going to cut and paste the e-mail I sent Bux in response to a comment he made (mine had to do mostly with hotels and what we saw so I initially thought that it did not belong at e-gullet) ... and I am too lazy to retype the whole thing.

We drove to Bilbao from Bordeaux in 2 ½ hours.  We stayed at the Lopez de Haro: beautiful traditional old hotel, elegant without ostentation.  Our large room was very simply decorated with quality furnishings – I understand that each room is different: they provided all kinds of toiletries, from comb, to toothbrush and paste, to nail brush, bubble bath, etc. etc.  I had never seen quite so much.  We were within walking distance of everything and enjoyed mild weather.  As food was concerned, because we ate so well in Paris and Bordeaux, we were not in the mood for “important” meals, also because in Spain, we had not come to expect anything much: we ate lightly and not particularly well at a couple of places, including the Lopez de Haro buffet dinner; it must be added that many of the best restaurants everywhere are closed in January.

The Guggenheim Museum is definitely worth a trip to Bilbao: but as very frequent visitors to NYC, we had seen the Guggenheim New York collections before, including the Franck Gehry retrospective, which we therefore skipped; however, the usual photos of the outside of the museum don’t do it justice: the interior spaces are SPECTACULAR, the museum is truly a work of art.

We then drove to Barcelona, a long six hours, but we could not face being in Spain without going there, a great favorite in the whole wide world.  We stayed at the spectacular Claris Hotel with its 19th century façade and contemporary interior, all glass and water in the interior, contemporary furniture in the rooms – the latter a bit on the small side, very quiet (very efficiently double-glazed windows); we had skipped a Ritz-Carlton offer of ๩ a night for travel agents (I think until March 31), to enjoy this one: also because the Barcelona Ritz-Carlton is not as nicely situated as the Claris.  The service was impeccable except that one night we suffered mildly because the wrong remote control accompanied our B & O television!  We had a very nice informal dinner in the Bario Gottico, at the Cafe de la Academia, and it was packed with the Spanish equivalent of yuppies: elegantly yet informally dressed Spaniards in their 30’s and 40’s: the food was well prepared, not creative at all, but we liked it very much – my risotto with fresh duck liver was hearty and tasty, my Tarte Tatin a l’espagnole was good (the caramel reminded me of the top of a crème brûlee, crusty/crunchy).  I almost forgot to say, that as we were walking back towards our hotel, we checked out a small jazz club whose name I do not recall right now: it was packed and people were standing ten-row deep!  There were two guitarists and a cellist, all three superb (one of the guitarists was American or Australian, I was not sure from his accent when he spoke English, the other two musicians were Spanish).  I had to go outside a couple of times to breathe fresh air as Spaniards, like the French, are still heavy smokers

Then we went back to France to Toulouse, and that's another story...

[Bux]

I'm not sure members looking for information about Spain will look in the France board, but for the moment we'll continue here. This software creates such great pigeon holes, but there seem to be so few pigeons here. We all roost where we are comfortable or maybe just where we are when the thought strikes. You will find lots of posts about French chefs and restaurants on the General board.

It's a pity you didn't have a month to spend in northern Spain. Even devoted francophiles such as we are, have come to learn that some of the worlds greatest restaurants are in and around San Sebastian. Arzak's nondescript exterior and homey interior bave no hint of the finesse of his three star food. I'm all too curious to hear how it's going since his daughter moved into the kitchen. Our most recent meal in the area was Martin Berasategui in Lasarte. Hidden away in a noncommercial residential neighborhood of large private homes it was rather difficult, but rewarding, to find. While the menu was full of odd sounding dishes--garlic ice cream for example, the food was remarkably satisfying and exciting, and not the assault on my palate one might fear.

We also stayed at the Lopex de Haro and as I recall it was, as you describe it, a most civilized place. In Blbao we ate at Goizeko Kabi. It came recommended and had one Michelin star. My recollection was that the meal was uneven. They had a tremendous menu, and coming from France with little experience in dining in Spain, poor choices may have been partially to blame. We also arrived early, at about nine pm as I recall. There were two other tables already occupied, but English was being spoken at both. The restaurant was filling up as we left and we had noticed that the tapas bar across the street was still jumping with what we assume was a pre-dinner crowd when we had arrived. The star of the meal may well have been Laminas fina de bacalao, a carpaccio of fresh cod served with strips of roasted red peppers--an updated presentation of classic Basque ingredients. A plate of white beans with chorizos and blood sausage ordered by one of our companions was one of the cheapest things on the menu and emminantly satisfying, but the brown sauce and the bechamel sauce served with a very tasty canelon de pinchon (cannelloni of pigeon) stuffed with shredded pigeon and covered with melted Idiazabal cheese, were thick with starch and dull to my palate. A boned pigeon was roasted to rare perfection and served with it's own juices. Three fruit purees served with slices of tender roast roe deer were quite complementry, but again I found the bown sauce a bit overpowering. Desserts were interesting. A helado de pan de centeno (rye bread ice cream) with a spice breadwas a bit too grainy to be judged completely successful, but the tostada flambeada al anís, a thin slice of very rich French toast flamed with anise and served in a pool of natilla (Creme Anglais) was very successful. I knew those notes from a few years ago would come in handy.

The Guggenheim is a destination attraction, but the subway is also of interest. It was designed by the British architect, Foster. We're told the glass tunnel entrance cocoons are referred to as "Fosteritos" by the locals.

Catalunya is another, or maybe I should say the, hotbed of great cuisine in Spain. Perhaps it's always challenged the Basque cuisine, but it's a center of creativity at the moment although most of the activity may be outside of Barcelona. I think I've noted some very successful meals in Barcelona elsewhere on this site, and both the Adria brothers and Santi Santamaria have been mentioned in other threads including the one devoted to the greatest chefs of the century. These should be familiar names to food lovers. Ferran and Alberto Adria operate El Bulli which gets its share of press. Santamaria has El Raco de Can Fabes in San Celoni about a half hour north of Barcelona and a longer drive than I cared to make after a wonderful lunch. Both of these are deservedly three star establishments, but the second has managed to stay below the radar of the popular press. They are also quite different in style.

We also had several meals along the way between San Sebastian and Barcelona that were eye opening. Restaurante La Cocina Aragonesa in Jaca, was as much Basque as Aragonesa, and a complete surprise as it had no stars. Rodero in Pamplona with a star in a city with three one star restaurants was less of a surprise. What was surprising was the nouvelle sophistication in what I remember from my college days of running the bulls as very small provincial town. Now it's a big provincial city, but with good food. We also discovered that there are some good wines in Navarra and Catalunya. Moreover, Spanish restaurants seem to price wines far less agressively than American or French restaurants or maybe it's just that the wines are so much cheaper in Spain than they are when they get here.

[Danielle]

Oops, in clicking on "New Topic", I thought I was starting a new forum on Spain.  So much for my understanding how this works... and I struggled for a good topic title!!!  Bux, can this be switched to a new "forum" called Spain, Travel and Food?

We did not spend more time in Spain because our recollections of food (for the body) there were so negative, and we were afraid it had not changed; on the other hand, there is plenty of food for the soul, so we keep going back.  Now your response makes me feel badly we did not try more and better.  I must admit that I don't entirely trust Michelin, its star awards and its comments on unstarred restaurants, if only because they tend to go mostly for traditional food, usually of French descent.  The world of food preparation has changed so much in the past twenty years, and I feel Michelin is not quite in this era yet.  As the Gault-Millau team doesn't go to restaurants anonymously, I don't trust them completely either, however they make longer comments which help in deciding whether I might like what is served at any particular venue.

A combination of reviews is very good, but I still find that friends and acquaintances whose taste I know, are the best source of information.  It is also the reason why I frantically read what everyone says here, depending on where I plan to travel; but there was nothing on Spain when we prepared our trip so we took our chances, and it turns out we took none.  OK, next time!

Thanks Bux, a lot.  Danielle

[Bux]

Every forum, sometimes called a "board" as in bulletin board on eGullet needs a coordinator and it needs to prove it can sustain enough traffic to warrant a separate section. I'm less surprised that there's little interest in Spanish food, although I'm saddened by that, than I am in the fact that there's little interest shown in the food of Italy. My initial introduction to food in Spain was spotty at best and my reaction was less than positive. The food has changed, but I think my sophisitication has changed even more. Still it takes a bit of adjustment every time I cross the border to make the mental adjustments that allow me to enjoy and appreciate the food.

In spite of the enthusiam I've developed in the past three or four years, I'm not sure I'm qualified to host a board on Spain. Most of my recent eating has been in the north and I don't have a good idea of the country as a whole. That's not to say there is a whole. Spanish regional cooking seems stronger than French today. France is becoming homogenized. I remain a beginning student, but nevertheless a booster of Spanish food. This is not to say I'm an expert on French food, but I feel more comfortable with discussing it in greater detail.

As for new boards, that's not going to happen until eGullet.com introduces the new software. I can only say that as the conversations get better and better Jason is also working on improving the structure. I'm quite impressed at how far this venture has come in so short a time. As for this thread, if it's moved, I will leave a link at this location. In some ways it makes sense here just as it makes sense for me to combine a trip to southern France with one to Northern Spain. One particular charm of Spain just south of the Pyrenees, is that while regional cooking is well developed, so is haute cuisine. There are three star restaurants that are as fine and as interesting as those n France and they are clustered closer together than in other parts of Spain.

[robert brown]

Bux, as we have a naiscent Spain thread going and I am sitting here now for an hour waiting for Road Runner tech support, I may as well ask what people's experience with the vaunted tapas bar has been. When last in Madrid a few years ago, I went to Tapas Centrale in the square behind the Palace Hotel. Nearly uniformly, I found the tapas to be an exercise in grease ball and heaviness. Has anyone been tapas-bar hopping in Madrid (or elsewhere in Spain) who would like to share their experience, be it similar or contrary to mine?

(Edited by robert brown at 11:34 pm on Jan. 11, 2002)

[Bux]

The square behind the Palace Hotel? I remember a street that ran just adjacent to the hotel that had lots of bars. Generally speaking a youngish crowd, but mixed to some extent. Mostly they were bars with tapas. The beverage was the reason to be there, not the tapas. Although I recall enjoying many a slice of bread with something on it, I was rpimarily there for the beer. You can't mean the Plaza Mayor. That's where I am told the best tapas bars are near. My wife was in Madrid quite a few years ago and a cousin and her husband took her on a tour. Each place had a specialty, or even just a single offering. When we were there together, my wife tried to remember where each place was. They were outside the plaza not in it. Some of them were quite good, but I don't think I've had great food in a tapas bar. It's about nibbling and drinking. There was one place, at tiny place, on a main street not so far from the Palace that had a wonderful wood panelled interior and, as I recall, silver plaques on the street. They served exquisite ham and chorizo, but even the inexpensive places serve good ham.

I've also found that everything about tapas varies from region to region. In Galicia, you cannot get a drink, or a glass of wine without being offered a bite to eat, be it a slice of sausage or cheese on a round of bread, or a few olives. Once we had a couple of glasses of wine when we arrived in the province and a tray of sausage, cheese and bread was put in front of us. When we asked for the bill, we told the guy behind the counter how many we had taken. He laughed and said they came with the wine. In most other places you pay for every bite. In some places tapas are tiny and in others they can be more substantial. I suppose the Basques are the kings of tapas, as well as generally known to be the best cooks. The scene in the old part of San Sebastian is a don't miss, but it's more something to do than it is competition for a great meal. Then again, if you know where to go, that may be different. When our daughter was at Berastegui for lunch, he told her which bars were best known for what foods and she may well have had better luck. The new square (it got that name centuries ago) in Bilbao is an excellent place for tapas. There are several bars around the perimeter and one that's special in the far corner (that may depend on how you enter the square) with tables outside. Still it's a convivial thing and more about something to have with a drink than the height of gastronomy although the various ingredients may be superb be they ham, or seafood. Certainly its not all rubbery fried calamari in a greasy leaded batter, although some random sampling might convince you that it is just that.

[A Balic]

Tapas? Well I had some very good tiny cuttlefish in Malaga, their ink had flavoured the batter, so the combination of sweet cephalopod, crunchy bitter batter and lemon was perfect. In Cordoba I had some very good creamed salt cod, wrapped in grilled red pepper and some fried eggplant with a honey sauce which was very good.

[Danielle]

I don't recall any good, or even acceptable restaurants in Madrid.  My palate and nose only remember greasy fried food: I seem to recall that the streets smelled of fried food; I have been avoiding Madrid since, other than for a visit to the Prado.  It is unfair, as my impressions are 10-years old!  This weekend, in the NY Times Travel section, there is a good and long article on food at the paradores of northern Spain, it looks a little more encouraging, and maybe Spain will catch up.  Then only Germany will be left behind, although I understand that country too has made great strides; if England can change the way it cooks, surely no country can remain behind long!

Danielle

'>http://www.nytimes.com/2002....elle

[Bux]

creamed salt cod, wrapped in grilled red pepper

Salt cod puree in a roasted piquillo pepper is a Basque specialty and available in many tapas bars in the Basque area, but the best I've ever had were served as a first course in a hotel-restaurant in Ainhoa, France. More fascinating (to me, at least) is that we had an hors d'oeuvre at AD/NY of brandade de morue that had bits of roasted red pepper in it and it never occurred to me until now, that Ducasse wasn't being creative. He was just adapting the traditional Basque flavor combination.

Danielle, I wasn't thrilled by meals in Madrid either, but it was some time ago. I strongly suspect that one has to do one's research before hand. Again there's a palate shift that has to be made when going from France to Spain. Oddly enough I think it's a much harder shift to make than sort we have to do when we eat Asian foods which are really far more different. Maybe it's that we don't expect to have to make the adjustment and expect Spanish food to be just like the French and Italian food we know better. I wish someone with greater experience in this area of Europe would comment on this even if it was to shoot my theory down altogether.

[Steve Plotnicki]

Here's a good meal in Madrid. Taberna Daniella in the Salamanca section serves a great Cocida on Saturday afternoons. Cocida is the national dish of Spain and is akin to a Pot au Feu or Bollito Misto. They serve you a steaming turreen of chicken broth and fideo (thin noodles). After you have a few bowls they serve you a large platter with various meats, chicken and sausages and you make bowls of soup. I can't remember all the condiments but I remember a bowl of chick peas, some coarse salt and I think mustard. It was a great lunch and worthy of three naps. The place is just an upscale, neighborhood tapas bar but has a back room where they serve more substantive plates for lunch. Another simple but good place in Madrid is La Trainera which is a seafood specialist and is also in Salamanca. More exotic types of Gambas than I've seen anywhere including these giant red ones from the Atlaintic coast. I've never been but, the guys from the wine boards I post on are always going to Viridiana. Abraham Garcia is supposedly one of the top chefs in Spain and I hear he has a great wine cellar.

[Bux]

I just read the article in the Sunday NY Times Travel section, mentioned by Danielle. Penelope Casas is one of the experts in Spanish cooking. Her books are a good start for someone interesting in gaining some insight into the foods of Spain. It's interesting that some paradors are finally upgrading their food by returning to their roots and preparing good local cuisine. I have limited experience with the paradors. Many are in rather exciting buidlings of more than a little historical as well as architectural interest, but when staying in them, we've usually eaten elsewhere. More often than not it's been by having a large lunch along the road on our way in, or in town if staying more than a day.

For many travelers--or should I say "tourists?"--dining in the incredible hall at the Hostal Reyes Católicos, a superb room in a superb ediface, would be a thrill. For me, to eat mediocre food in such a space would be depressing. For that reason alone I think, we left Santiago de Compostella after one night in the parador, to spend a night in a rather nondescript but one Michelin star restaurant with rooms in San Xulian de Sales about nine kilometers outisde of Santiago. After reading this article, I'm enthused about returning to Santiago and eating in the parador. I'am also relieved to hear that they've done away with the hokey and heavy handed theatrical dress that along with some heavy interior decoration reduces some of these historical sites to a Disneyland replica of the real place they are. I've found some of them to be breathtakingly not to my taste. I can say the same thing about fancy Relais et Chateaux places in France as well.

;-)

[robert brown]

Bux and Steve P.: Thanks for the information about Ferran Adria. If I go to "El Bulli", is there a chance they'll push me around?

[Bux]

That's boo-ye as in bouledogue.

[robert brown]

Yes, but I'm an American. I wondered how that animal got there on their website.

(Edited by robert brown at 11:02 pm on Jan. 14, 2002)