Per Se

[Pan]

Bill, did you like your meals overall? Did you find the place a good value? Would you want to go back?

[bilrus]

Bill, did you like your meals overall? Did you find the place a good value? Would you want to go back?

We did enjoy the entire experience overall. It was one of the more enjoyable meals and evenings we have had - not perfection, but excellence nonetheless. The smiles on our face didn't leave from the first bite of Yuzu popcorn in the lounge until they handed us our menus as we walked out the door.

As has been discussed, I think value is hard to define. For nearly four hours of happiness on our anniversary, $600 was worth it. Was it three times better than our Pasta Tasting at Babbo the next night? Probably not. But then again I think that Babbo is an excellent value. Not in terms of cost of the food to what you pay, but in terms of overall satisfaction. Per Se is similar - the food is excellent, but you are paying for everything else - the pampering, the buzz of being in a great restaurant, the little extras. In the end I would say you are getting what you are paying for.

As for whether we would go back, I don't see that happening for some time, if ever. I assume that if we lived in New York I might look at it differently, but only getting into the city two or so times a year, there are still a lot of other restaurants, both high-end and mid-range that I still want to try. That also has more to do with the fact that even here in DC, there are only a few, mid-range places that we go to on a repeat basis. I would rather spread my high-end, big-budget dinners over several deserving places.

Edited May 26, 2004 by bilrus (log)

[Fat Guy]

Even in the best of all possible worlds, assuming away all the other hypothetical challenges and assuming any meaningful scheme of quantifying such things, we would hardly ever expect something luxurious that costs three times as much as something less luxurious to be three times better. Improvements at the high end are a matter of diminishing returns. You might notice a massive improvement in quality from a $10 bottle of wine to a $50 bottle of wine. You'll notice a lot less of an improvement when you go from $50 to $100. And beyond that, as you start climbing towards the best, each of those increments buys you less and less. How you value the pursuit of the best and the rare is the primary factor in determining whether those increments are worth paying, not any sort of locked-in ratio of price to quality. This is where we as mostly middle class people can't really stay in the game that rich people are playing, and why the media tend to be uncomprehending about issues of price in the luxury markets. To look at it from the perspective of the person with essentially infinite money, though, is the ever any reason not to pay more for something better, even if that means paying double for something that's 1% better?

[bilrus]

I wanted to go through our courses on the veg menu, so I thought I would just do both at the same time.

Veg - tomato "paste" with Italian spices on cone

Chefs - Salmon tartare with red onion crème fraiche on cone

The tomato cone was the one course I didn't get to try. But my wife liked it better than the Salmon cone from FL. The salmon cone was good as always.

Veg - Spring Onion Soup - Sweet Onion 'Vermicelli' and Chive 'Mousse'

Chef - Potato Blini with Chive Butter and Osetra Caviar

I didn't enjoy the Oysters and Pearls at French Laundry, so I asked for a substitution on this course. If everyone is familiar with silver-dollar pancakes, these were nickel pancakes. Perfectly cooked and the caviar added a salty note to the dish without overpowering. The Spring Onion soup was fantastic, layers of onion flavor and quite rich.

Veg - Ribbons of Jicama - Haas avocado Emulsion, Persian Lime Gelee and Upland Cress

Chef - Hawaiian Hearts of palm - Confit of field rhubarb and perigord truffle coulis

The jicama salad looked like ribbons of fettuccine, so the crunchy texture, although expected, was a bit of a surprise. The flavors were reminiscent of guacamole. The Hearts of palm was probably the weakest of the courses in our mind. Nothing memorable and the various elements didn't seem 'pulled together'. This was a complaint in most of the courses that were not great.

Veg - Warm Salad of Green Asparagus - Satur Farms Icicle Radish, Garden Mache and Perigord Truffles

Chef - Crispy Skin Black Bass - Italian Eggplant, Sultanas and Madras Curry Emulsion

The fish was one of the highlights of the Chef's menu, in particular the curry emulsion. I don't remember much of the Asparagus, so I guess that says it wasn't great.

Veg - Forest Mushroom a la Greque - with baby artichokes and garden herbs

Chef - Sweet butter Poached Lobster "Cuit Sous Vide - with Globe artichokes, Oven Roasted Tomatoes, Picholine Olives and Spicy Lobster broth

Just as at French Laundry, I didn't love the lobster - just too chewy. The artichokes were the star of the Veg dish here. A flavor memory that sticks with me three days later.

Veg - Chou Fleur Roti Entier - 'Saupiquet' of green almonds, California Raisins, Fried Capers and 'Verjus'

Chef - Braised Hallow Farms Young Rabbit Shoulder "Farcie aux Ris de Veau" - 'Confiture' of Kumquat, melted fennel bulb and Green Almonds

The Rabbit was the best dish of the night, but I love rabbit. It was intensely flavorful and stuffed with the other ingredients. The cauliflower was another standout, with the sweetness from the raisins and the saltiness of the capers accented the relative blandness of the cauliflower.

Veg - Gateaux d'Aubergine - Tomato Confit, Nicoise Olives, Country Bread Croutons, Roasted Sweet Peppers, Spring Garlic Coulis and Shaved Basil

Chefs - Snake River Farms "Calotte de Boeuf Grilee' - Yukon Gold Potato Mille Feuille, Sautéed Chanterelle Mushrooms, Wilted Baby Spinach, Crispy Bone Marrow and Sauce Bordelaise.

I really liked the Eggplant dish - it was reminiscent of eggplant parmesan. My wife didn't, but she doesn't like eggplant in general. The beef was a little chewy, but this was a traditional steak-house dinner in miniature, although the sauce was practically non-existent. I don't really like marrow (especially after a recent thread about its biological uses). But it did fascinate me that they could remove this perfect inch long tube of marrow and fry it crispy. As if they could take butter without a batter and deep fry it without it losing its consistency.

Veg - Azeitao - Spring Three Bean Salad with rosemary-infused extra Virgin Olive Oil

Chefs - Chabichuo - Gelee de Pomme verte, Satur Farms Red beets and English Walnut Shortbread

The Chabichou cheese was very good, but the rest of the dish was wildly incompatible. Nothing enhanced anything else - almost four disparate elements on the plate. The Azeito was very mild and creamy, but the bean salad would have stood on its own as a regular course. Overall this was the weakest of the courses.

Veg - Old Chatham Sheep's milk yogurt Sorbet - Beet essence 'Genoise' and Candied beets

Chefs - Pineapple sorbet - with braised Pineapple and Haas Avocado "Coulis'

Both of these were just OK. The pineapple sorbet was good, but the braised pineapple didn't do much. The beets and avocado in these desserts only served to add to the 'Strange" quotient.

Veg - Valrhona Chocolate 'Velours' Ginger infused Custard and preserved Meyer Lemon 'Granite'

Chefs - 'Tentation au Chocolate, noisette et lait' - Milk Chocolate "Cremeux", Hazelnut Streusel, Condensed Milk Sorbet and Sweetened Salty Hazelnuts and "Pain au Lait' Sauce

As I mentioned earlier the Milk Chocolate Cremuex was the single most memorable component of any dish we had. The dessert with the Veg menu was another case of elements that didn't really enhance each other much.

So in retrospect I would say that five of the courses were misses and seven or eight were truly memorable. The rest ranged from good to very good.

[bilrus]

To look at it from the perspective of the person with essentially infinite money, though, is the ever any reason not to pay more for something better, even if that means paying double for something that's 1% better?

But that is hardly ever (never) the reality. What you are saying is true though. Each incremental improvement towards perfecting something will add exponentially more expense and value. Even at Per Se, we had inititally thought about going with just a glass or two of wine to keep the costs lower but we reconsidered - why not spend the little bit more to heighten the enjoyment that much more.

And on the wine - I commented a few times that the quantity of wine to food ratio was tilting in favor of the wines. I found myself (not a small guy or a lightweight by any stretch) a little silly by the end of the evening after the pairings, a glass of champagne in the lounge and two glasses of wine that my wife didn't enjoy or finish.

[adegiulio]

If everyone is familiar with silver-dollar pancakes, these were nickel pancakes.

I don't have anything to add except

Until June 6th...

[JosephB]

I like to think of my experience at Per Se last week in terms of the whole, rather than the sum of the parts. I have had several haute dining experiences, but do not feel qualified to critique or compare like a reviewer. On the other hand, I can certainly say what I like and dislike, and discern value to me.

When I reflect back on last Thursday evening, I remember 5+ hours of eating and drinking with dear friends in a spacious and sumptuous room. I remember that the taste of some dishes was delicious (foie gras "peach melba"), but too fleeting, and that the taste of other dishes was just interesting (pickled egg). I'll never forget the breads and butters. I also remember moments when the wine (Chardonnay) and food (lobster, saffron, vanilla) spoke to each so clearly that I smiled. I remember a pineapple sorbet, and then more desserts, and then too many more desserts. I never met the petite fours.

Our captain, Peter, graced our table with relaxed professionalism, mixed with erudition, charm, and wit. Make sure you ask for him when reserving. The balance of the wait staff was excellent, anticipating all our needs. The wait staff's ability to sense a question or curiosity was uncanny, making us wonder whether a microphone had been hidden in the center piece on our table. Silver and stemware were changed imperceptibly -- "where did that fish knife come from"?

Our evening, which has been well documented above by docsonz, ended with an impressive tour of the kitchen -- Wow! We were warmly greeted in the kitchen by Chef Benno, who seemed genuinely pleased that we stopped in to visit. He also seemed very proud of his extraordinary kitchen.

For me, dinner at Per Se was an event. The experience easily outweighed the cost.

[robyn]

I am very impressed with Per Se, after having lunch there yesterday.  I consider the 5-course prix-fixe one of the dining bargains of NY at $125...

That's interesting. My husband and I are in London now. Ate at the only 3 star in central London today (Gordon Ramsay). Fixed 3 course lunch is about $63 - 3 course a la carte (lunch or dinner) is about $117. I tend to think of London as being more expensive than New York - so Per Se sounds kind of pricey to me. Robyn

[docsconz]

It is pricey, but it is worth it if you can afford it.

[oakapple]

Ate at the only 3 star in central London today (Gordon Ramsay). Fixed 3 course lunch is about $63 - 3 course a la carte (lunch or dinner) is about $117. I tend to think of London as being more expensive than New York - so Per Se sounds kind of pricey to me.

The five-course prix fixe at Per Se is $125, or just eight dollars more than the $117 three-course dinner at Gordon Ramsay. On that basis, I wouldn't describe Per Se as pricey.

[JosephB]

It is pricey, but it is worth it if you can afford it.

Per Se is a good value on any night, but the cost is even easier to justify on a special occasion. It just so happens that last Thursday was my one-year anniversary as a member of eGullet!

[R Washburn]

I am very impressed with Per Se, after having lunch there yesterday.  I consider the 5-course prix-fixe one of the dining bargains of NY at $125...

That's interesting. My husband and I are in London now. Ate at the only 3 star in central London today (Gordon Ramsay). Fixed 3 course lunch is about $63 - 3 course a la carte (lunch or dinner) is about $117. I tend to think of London as being more expensive than New York - so Per Se sounds kind of pricey to me. Robyn

I assume you are comparing lunch prices. Per Se and ADNY offer the same meal structure and pricing for lunch and dinner. I really meant that Per Se was a tremendous bargain for dinner. Lunch at Per Se is just dinner served in the afternoon.

A $12 Jeans-Georges lunch is probably the ultimate NY lunch bargain (if you can get it).

[docsconz]

Ate at the only 3 star in central London today (Gordon Ramsay). Fixed 3 course lunch is about $63 - 3 course a la carte (lunch or dinner) is about $117. I tend to think of London as being more expensive than New York - so Per Se sounds kind of pricey to me.

The five-course prix fixe at Per Se is $125, or just eight dollars more than the $117 three-course dinner at Gordon Ramsay. On that basis, I wouldn't describe Per Se as pricey.

Both are "pricey" in that they require a fair bit of money in order to indulge. Per Se, while "pricey" is in IMO a great value for the money. Not having been to Gordon Ramsey I cannot attest to that for that restaurant.

[docsconz]

It is pricey, but it is worth it if you can afford it.

Per Se is a good value on any night, but the cost is even easier to justify on a special occasion. It just so happens that last Thursday was my one-year anniversary as a member of eGullet!

Now you tell me! We should have had a special toast.

[ellenesk]

Had the pleasure of dining at Per Se last weekend as well. Will not reiterate the menu, as all that we ate has been covered here in previous posts. Will say that I concur about the dining value. His ingredients are just better, and Andre, the sommelier, selection's equaled the experience with the food.

Regarding the cut of beef that no one seems to be able to place, it is the outside of the ribeye.

What I will say, is that when we dined, Keller was not here, and I cannot imagine in anyway the food could have been improved upon.

[Pan]

A $12 Jeans-Georges lunch is probably the ultimate NY lunch bargain (if you can get it).

Please clarify.

[bloviatrix]

I wanted to be calm, cool, and collected and not say anything until I dined there. But who am I kidding?? I'm giddy like a child with a goofy smile as wide as Texas as I got a reservation for July 28th.

I started calling seconds before 10. I used two phone lines and after about 10 minutes got onto the queue. As the reservationist was taking my name down for the waiting list she paused and asked if I could hold on for a moment -- lo and behold a table became available.

The constant re-dailing of the phone only to get a busy signal reminded me of the days when I would call Ticketmaster to get tickets for a hot concert or calling a radio station contest hotline. Only, I never had any luck. Maybe this is my reward for all those years of suffering?

[R Washburn]

A $12 Jeans-Georges lunch is probably the ultimate NY lunch bargain (if you can get it).

Please clarify.

The 2-course prix fixe (plus amuse bouche and petit-fours etc., but excluding dessert) costs $24 in the main dining room. Your server has the power to comp you one course, even on the $24 option. If you get comped on the 2-course, then your meal cost only $12.

I would say that we get comped about 1/2 the time, although we more typically order 3-courses + dessert ($44). Still a fantastic deal, even without any comps.

Robert

[The Little Blue House]

From The New York Times...

If you think getting a reservation at Chez Panisse is hard, you haven't tried breakfast at Cinderella's Royal Table in the Magic Kingdom, the holy grail of character breakfasts (call exactly 90 days in advance at 7 a.m. Eastern time, credit card in hand; spots are usually gone by 7:15).

And Per Se doesn't even come with Mickey Mouse!

[Pan]

How will you handle the menu, Blov?

[bloviatrix]

Pan, I'm going with the 9-course vegetable tasting.

[Pan]

Have fun!

[robert brown]

The intrepid, indefatigable, globetrotting gastronomes Sumac and Bobmac scored a table for six for Sunday lunch. We'll be joinig them and their son the chef and his girlfriend. If there is significant resemblance to my meal at the French Laundry, I already have the main theme for my a posteriori post.

[oakapple]

I went to the Time Warner Mall today. Tourists in shorts were walking into Per Se and walking out with menus, so I gave it a try. Copies of the May 24th menu were ours for the asking, which I've scanned and posted to my website.

Click here. The actual menu is three pages, but it appears in this PDF file as six, because I had to scan each page in two parts.

Edited May 30, 2004 by oakapple (log)

[docsconz]

No luck.