N'western U's cafeteria honors MLK w/fried chicken

[fifi]

I think that this whole thing is just another example of how so much of what MLK said and stood for gets "highjacked" for ulterior motives. It enrages me when I see it. MLK was all about inclusiveness and understanding and respect for individuals and their culture. Some folks need to go back and read what he said. That "content of their character" line has resonated with me since I first heard it as a youngster. I am also sure MLK enjoyed a good bowl of chili.

[Mayhaw Man]

I am also sure MLK enjoyed a good bowl of chili.

No doubt with beans

[slkinsey]

Most yankees who came across this type of cooking would likely have seen it in a black household or neighborhood, because there just weren't that many non-blacks eating greens, or ribs, or whatever iconic food you want to select, up north.

This is definitely true. Growing up in Boston as the son of Southerners, I can tell you that none of my peers were being served things like the mustard greens, grits, fried porkchops, etc. that were regular features of dinner at the Kinsey household.

[tryska]

smothered porkchops too?

[slkinsey]

Martin Luther King, Jr. was not about food.

Neither was St. Patrick, or Rabbie Burns, or Jesus, etc.

I think the whole thing is misdirected. Why on earth would food, ANY food, be used as a vehicle through which to honor Dr. King?

For the same, or similar reasons the people above are associated with food.

[slkinsey]

smothered porkchops too?

Naturally.

And chicken fried steak. And black eyed peas. And cornbread. And pinto beans. And chicken fried in bacon fat. And greasy cut-shorts. And...

[tryska]

k, i'm getting hungry.

[Citryphus]

This is really dumb. Give a cafeteria staff the mission of honoring an individual. What the hell are they supposed to do? The most obvious--and best--choice is to prepare a menu associated with that person's birthplace or ethnicity, or both. MLK was born in Atlanta, so the menu is appropriate on both counts. How is that insulting? You could use the same menu for honoring Jimmy Carter, maybe add a few peanuts, no one would bat an eyelash. To take offense because the cafeteria staff used food to honor a man is ridiculous; food is their voice.

The letter writer was mostly concerned with her (completely anecdotal) observation that "most" students would only partake of the food and not the other events, something largely beyond the university's control. It's just thoughtless PC.

[KatieLoeb]

if it was being served to me by german-americans i'd wonder if there was a slur involved.

(just my jewish NU grad opinion)

Or if it were being served by the local branch of the KKK or the local chapter of the Neo-Nazis.

But being served it by the same hairnetted cafteria ladies I'd seen every day - Not So Much.

[cakewalk]

Martin Luther King, Jr. was not about food.

Neither was St. Patrick, or Rabbie Burns, or Jesus, etc.

I think the whole thing is misdirected. Why on earth would food, ANY food, be used as a vehicle through which to honor Dr. King?

For the same, or similar reasons the people above are associated with food.

Try starting a Jesus day in your local cafeteria. Once you figure out what to serve, WHATEVER you serve, I'd be interested in seeing how the whole thing goes over. (Maybe Mel Gibson will say it is as it was.) Ditto a Robert Burns day. (BTW -- what foods ARE they associated with?) And while I admire Burns's poetry, I don't consider him a symbol quite on the order of Dr. King. As far as St. Patrick's Day goes, most Irish people I know are thoroughly humiliated by the spectacle that St. Patrick's Day has become, it's association with drunkenness, etc.

I find this entire argument ridiculous. It's one thing to argue whether "soul food" is an appropriate menu for Black History Month. (I find nothing wrong with that. I do not find the phrase "soul food" to be negative, but then I'm white.) It's another thing entirely to use such a menu in "honor" of Martin Luther King. Not because I think this particular food constitutes a slur, but because the food, ANY FOOD, has absolutely nothing to do with King or his message. Therein lies the slur. It is demeaning.

Edit: typo

Edited January 22, 2004 by cakewalk (log)

[JPW]

This is really dumb.

I disagree with you wholeheartedly.

I do not think that it dumb at all. There are obviously people who have different, strongly held, points of view on this. They have managed to express their views without aiming to insult people and have been respectful of other people's views.

At a certain point in time, in certain parts of the US, there was strongly negative way in which fried chicken/collard greens/cornbread could be associated with African-Americans. To me, this thread may have indeed moved beyond the original link to the student letter, but I have learned a lot about what the state of this association is to various people in various parts of the country.

[Busboy]

It's another thing entirely to use such a menu in "honor" of Martin Luther King. Not because I think this particular food constitutes a slur, but because the food, ANY FOOD, has absolutely nothing to do with King or his message. Therein lies the slur. It is demeaning.

Edit: typo

Food is an integral part of virtually every celebration this nation observes, from a July 4 barbecue to Passover seder to Christmas and Thanksgiving dinner. I don't do much on Columbus Day, but you better believe they do in Boston's North End. Birthday parties get a cake, retirement parties get a dinner, and we take our sweeties out for something swell in our rented tuxedos on prom night. We bring a covered dish to funerals, and fret over the caterer at weddings. The instinct to match food with the observation of MLK day is perfectly reasonable and understandable, indeed an excellent reflection of our society and traditions, and those of many others, as well.

[ludja]

this just in from my favorite son... copied with his permission.

Well, you can tell all your foodie friends that your son works for NU and

has taken a poll.  Most of my staff is black women and none of them were

offended or put off by the menu on MLK Day.  Some were disappointed they

didn't know about the food to take advantage of it!  Lord knows I'm a

liberal Democrat and proud of it but that is just ridiculous.  They need to

get a grip.  Black people typically enjoy those dishes, as do I, and there

is nothing wrong with serving those dishes to celebrate an important black

holiday.  I say bring on the wings, greens and corn bread!

Did anyone notice Fifi's post?

[slkinsey]

Martin Luther King, Jr. was not about food.

Neither was St. Patrick, or Rabbie Burns, or Jesus, etc.

I think the whole thing is misdirected. Why on earth would food, ANY food, be used as a vehicle through which to honor Dr. King?

For the same, or similar reasons the people above are associated with food.

Try starting a Jesus day in your local cafeteria. Once you figure out what to serve, WHATEVER you serve, I'd be interested in seeing how the whole thing goes over.

You've never heard of Christmas Dinner?

Ditto a Robert Burns day. (BTW -- what foods ARE they associated with?) And while I admire Burns's poetry, I don't consider him a symbol quite on the order of Dr. King.

If you don't think he's a symbol, then you're not Scottish. As for the foods, perhaps you might want to take a look here where several of us are discussing upcoming meals in honor of Robert Burns (and, by extension, Scotland and the Scottish people) at which certain traditional foods will be served.

As far as St. Patrick's Day goes, most Irish people I know are thoroughly humiliated by the spectacle that St. Patrick's Day has become, it's association with drunkenness, etc.

Note that I didn't say whether or not I thought it was appropriate... but you can't convince me that it is any less appropriate than it is on any of these other days, and others like them. I would be willing to bet, however, that your Irish friends wouldn't feel that way were it not too often an excuse for public drunkenness in America. In Ireland, where it is also celebrated with a meal, the celebration can be more reserved and decorous.

ANY FOOD, has absolutely nothing to do with King or his message. Therein lies the slur. It is demeaning.

Obviously a lot of Scots, Irish, Christians, and other people who arrange festive meals to remember and honor certain historical figures do not share your sentiment.

[NeroW]

Try starting a Jesus day in your local cafeteria. Once you figure out what to serve, WHATEVER you serve, I'd be interested in seeing how the whole thing goes over.

Loaves and fishes?

[Busboy]

Try starting a Jesus day in your local cafeteria. Once you figure out what to serve, WHATEVER you serve, I'd be interested in seeing how the whole thing goes over.

Loaves and fishes?

I was going to say wafers and wine, but I thought better of it.

Or maybe just water...

[cakewalk]

When the focus of the day becomes food (or sales), the importance of the person for whom the day is held goes out the window. That's what is happening here, and not just because it's a food site. But because the food has surpassed King. And that's why I think it's off base to create a menu in his "honor." Trying to make comparisons between Martin Luther King and Robert Burns, for goodness sake, sort of proves the point for me. How much of your Christmas dinner involves theological discussion? The media is not the message, the food is! I don't want to see that happen on Martin Luther King Day. (And I think you all get the picture. No more for me on this topic. Thank you.)

[cakewalk]

Or maybe just water...

Ah, take a walk!

[VeryApe77]

Ditto a Robert Burns day. (BTW -- what foods ARE they associated with?)

See this thread for some links to this subject

Edit: Ah, I was beaten to it. Sorry.

Edited January 22, 2004 by VeryApe77 (log)

[Citryphus]

This is really dumb.

I disagree with you wholeheartedly.

I think the argument that serving chicken "undermines" MLKs message is dumb. Sorry you don't like my choice of words, but to suggest that I was aiming to insult anyone is a cop out. Consider the rest of my post, please, then pick any one word you like to describe it. I promise not to feign offense.

[JPW]

This is really dumb.

I disagree with you wholeheartedly.

I think the argument that serving chicken "undermines" MLKs message is dumb. Sorry you don't like my choice of words, but to suggest that I was aiming to insult anyone is a cop out. Consider the rest of my post, please, then pick any one word you like to describe it. I promise not to feign offense.

A cop out? Not to me.

I find that the use of words like "dumb" is generally aimed at insulting people.

And I am not feigning offense, I was offended.

As for describing the rest of your post, my argument has not been that "serving chicken undermines MLK's message", but that it can (and has been) construed by many to be an insult given the trope that exists/had existed in the North relating fried chicken/collard greens to negative views of African-Americans. Especially in the context of an elite, largely white institution in an elite, largely white suburb -- neither of which has had the greatest history of race relations (or at least did not when I was there 10 years ago).

[arjay]

Deleted: technical difficulties

Edited January 22, 2004 by arjay (log)

[arjay]

This is really dumb. Give a cafeteria staff the mission of honoring an individual. What the hell are they supposed to do? The most obvious--and best--choice is to prepare a menu associated with that person's birthplace or ethnicity, or both. MLK was born in Atlanta, so the menu is appropriate on both counts. How is that insulting? You could use the same menu for honoring Jimmy Carter, maybe add a few peanuts, no one would bat an eyelash. To take offense because the cafeteria staff used food to honor a man is ridiculous; food is their voice.

The letter writer was mostly concerned with her (completely anecdotal) observation that "most" students would only partake of the food and not the other events, something largely beyond the university's control. It's just thoughtless PC.

These are my sentiments exactly. There are entirely too many folks willing to wallow in guilt and bend over forward to apologize for any remotely perceived offenses.

This thread has a good share of those folks.

[Citryphus]

OK, so you got offended because I called a different argument--not yours, but the one from the original post of the thread--dumb. Got it.

My one word summary of your argument? Racist. NU is an "elite, white institution." What exactly are you accusing them of? Do they have a right to honor MLK or must they forever keep silent because of their skin color? They had more than one event to honor MLK, not merely the lunch.

The cafeteria prepared a meal that, had MLK lived to visit that day, he might have enjoyed, and felt "at home." Oh, but they're white (maybe, we don't even know), and elite to boot. Also, some idiots--not NU administrators or cafeteria staff--make jokes about whatever African-Americans do, eat, or say. Better take chicken off the menu, someone might get the wrong idea. Dumb.

[robyn]

Most yankees who came across this type of cooking would likely have seen it in a black household or neighborhood, because there just weren't that many non-blacks eating greens, or ribs, or whatever iconic food you want to select, up north.

This is definitely true. Growing up in Boston as the son of Southerners, I can tell you that none of my peers were being served things like the mustard greens, grits, fried porkchops, etc. that were regular features of dinner at the Kinsey household.

Things have changed. I am Jewish - born and raised in the New York area. Spent most of my life in Miami - which is the "south" in terms of the history of segregation - but not so much in terms of food.. When I moved further "south" (i.e., north Florida) - I learned how to make collards and black eyed peas and corn bread - and grits - etc. Love fried chicken - but it's kind of messy to make at home. This is southern black food - and white cracker food. Depression and bad economy food. Like the traditional "grits and grunts" you find in the panhandle at every politician's picnic. I do not consider it condescending to cook it - or eat it. I am learning how to cook decent, interesting food - and learning something about history at the same time.

What's the big deal about some students in the north learning about what people in the south eat/ate - particularly when economic times were bad? Robyn