Bunless Whopper?!?!?

[PoorLawyer]

one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard. Don't you think we are taking this Atkins thing a little too far? Has anyone heard of exercising to lose weight?

[Jason Perlow]

The article is here

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...king_low_carb_1

[Carolyn Tillie]

Carl's Jr. is doing it as well - the "low-carb $6 burger" adverts are all California.

[ExtraMSG]

I don't know why anyone cares. They still sell both. I think it's great as much as I think companies offering low-fat and vegetarian entrees is great.

btw, some of us can exercise almost interminably and still not lose weight. I had 115 over 70 blood pressure, a 65 bpm heartrate, and played basketball and golf several times a week along with lifting weights and still couldn't lose weight. I was 300+ lbs mostly blubber. I had to cut my calories to about 1000 or less to consistently cut fat even with this exercise. Once I did I lost over 100 lbs.

However, when I went on Atkin's for a little while to test it out (a friend was on it and wanted me to try it with him), I lost weight while exercising less than I did back then, plus eating way more in both volume and calories.

Now if I just limit my carbs avoiding pastas, bread, potatoes, and rice, I can pretty much eat anything else without gaining.

[tryska]

what extramsg said - for some people it'snot that easy to cut fat through exercise - diet is an important factor as well.

[Hest88]

When I was in college I often bought McDonald's burgers and just ate the hamburger. Obviously not an Atkins thing; I just wanted meat and thought the bun was icky.

[PoorLawyer]

I think the meat is icky. But the combination of all of it is a fine balance and with enough ketchup is mighty tasty.

[tommy]

one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard. Don't you think we are taking this Atkins thing a little too far? Has anyone heard of exercising to lose weight?

low carb is low carb. there are reasons to go on a low carb diet other than losing weight. good for BK.

[PoorLawyer]

My feeling is that it is fast food and you go in expecting it to be bad for you. Go to a cafe and have a salad if you want low carb

[hjshorter]

My feeling is that it is fast food and you go in expecting it to be bad for you. Go to a cafe and have a salad if you want low carb

What if you're diabetic? Should you be forced to hunt down a "cafe" when all you want is a quick meal that fits within your meal plan?

[Holly Moore]

Sugar Busters here, which is Atkins with a few more fruits and vegetables. Both prohibit white bread and white bread products. Not sure about Atkin's but Sugar Busters permits whole grain, whole wheat bread.

Instead of eliminating the bun, BK or one of the others might put their burger on a whole grain, whole wheat bun on the menu or a couple of slices of whole grain, whole wheat bread. Suspect they'd be surprised at how many they sold to both lo carb dieters and to people who basically appreciate good food.

Edit: BTW, Trader Joe's, or at least the Philadelphia Trader Joe's has both whole grain, whole wheat hot dog and hamburger rolls. And even better, the hot dog rolls are top sliced, New England style.

Edited January 14, 2004 by Holly Moore (log)

[ExtraMSG]

I don't know if it's been its own thread yet, but Subway has its new low-carb wraps now. Subway has been quite successful, as I'm sure everyone knows, with their diet-oriented marketing -- Jared the diet hero and all.

If BK was giving up buns or moving to whole grain buns only or reformulating their buns for dietary rather than flavor reasons, I'd be the first to take issue with it. But as long as it's just one more option for people, I'm for it.

I think more independent restaurants should be jumping on this short-term money train. I'm sure it'll fade after a while, but they might as well give people want they want in the short term and make a little money because of it.

I'd respect Trotter a lot more if he had made a book called Low-Carb with cool techniques and presentations for the common dieter rather than the California trendy dieters who go "raw".

btw, anyone know if Italian restaurants have been hit by the Atkin's/Low-Carb craze?

[SiseFromm]

I'm sick of hearing about low-carb. Seriously. Now Carl's Jr. has a $6 bunless burger. That's just too much. What happened to that diet fad that was all carb? I'd like to get back to that one when the low-carb fad dies down. At least people were eating sandwiches back then.

[jhlurie]

I want my bunless burger salad with croutons, damnit!

[QuinaQuen]

Sugar Busters here, which is Atkins with a few more fruits and vegetables. Both prohibit white bread and white bread products. Not sure about Atkin's but Sugar Busters permits whole grain, whole wheat bread.

Instead of eliminating the bun, BK or one of the others might put their burger on a whole grain, whole wheat bun on the menu or a couple of slices of whole grain, whole wheat bread. Suspect they'd be surprised at how many they sold to both lo carb dieters and to people who basically appreciate good food.

Edit: BTW, Trader Joe's, or at least the Philadelphia Trader Joe's has both whole grain, whole wheat hot dog and hamburger rolls. And even better, the hot dog rolls are top sliced, New England style.

Ah, whole wheat and whole grain are a whole 'nother story. And this is not a comment on the results of these low-carb diets, I know they get people thinner...

Do any of these diet books describe the actual difference between whole wheat bread and white bread? In any form you're likely to eat them, whole wheat and white bread are essentially the same - especially when it comes to carb content!

Any commercial (or even edible) wheat bread is composed mostly of white flour with a little bit of whole wheat flour. No-white bread is available, but it tastes and feels like the squishy cinder of which running tracks are constructed. If the bread is noticeably yeast-risen, it contains flour that has had most of its germ removed. Otherwise, the gluten remains bound and insoluble. Any wheat flour that can be used on its own to make palatable bread has been processed to the point that both the gluten and nearly all of the carbs have been released and made available to your jigglin' nalgas.

Go ahead and convert your lipids to toxic esters if you want, but take the time to find out how to do it right. Whole wheat and whole grain breads are certainly more nutritious and more delicious, but they are not low-carb, no matter what some snake-oil salesman in a lab coat tells you.

[ExtraMSG]

Sugar Busters here, which is Atkins with a few more fruits and vegetables.  Both prohibit white bread and white bread products.  Not sure about Atkin's but Sugar Busters permits whole grain, whole wheat bread. 

Instead of eliminating the bun, BK or one of the others might put their burger on a whole grain, whole wheat bun on the menu or a couple of slices of whole grain, whole wheat bread.  Suspect they'd be surprised at how many they sold to both lo carb dieters and to people who basically appreciate good food.

Edit: BTW, Trader Joe's, or at least the Philadelphia Trader Joe's has both whole grain, whole wheat hot dog and hamburger rolls.  And even better, the hot dog rolls are top sliced, New England style.

Ah, whole wheat and whole grain are a whole 'nother story. And this is not a comment on the results of these low-carb diets, I know they get people thinner...

Do any of these diet books describe the actual difference between whole wheat bread and white bread? In any form you're likely to eat them, whole wheat and white bread are essentially the same - especially when it comes to carb content!

Any commercial (or even edible) wheat bread is composed mostly of white flour with a little bit of whole wheat flour. No-white bread is available, but it tastes and feels like the squishy cinder of which running tracks are constructed. If the bread is noticeably yeast-risen, it contains flour that has had most of its germ removed. Otherwise, the gluten remains bound and insoluble. Any wheat flour that can be used on its own to make palatable bread has been processed to the point that both the gluten and nearly all of the carbs have been released and made available to your jigglin' nalgas.

Go ahead and convert your lipids to toxic esters if you want, but take the time to find out how to do it right. Whole wheat and whole grain breads are certainly more nutritious and more delicious, but they are not low-carb, no matter what some snake-oil salesman in a lab coat tells you.

I believe the emphasis is usually on two things: the glycemic index and dietary fiber. I believe whole grains have a lower glycemic index and higher dietary fiber. In Atkin's, eg, you take the total carbohydrates and subtract the dietary fiber to get the net carbs. These are what the Atkin's loyalist has to pay attention to.

It makes sense. Whole grains can't be digested like processed grains. Traditionally, we wanted more processed grains because we could more bang (ie, calories) for the buck. But now we have too many bucks and it's too easy to get banged...er....calories.

[QuinaQuen]

All quite true; thanks for correcting without contradicting. But going back to my main point, the glycemics are still a sticking point. There is only a fraction less readily-absorbed simple sugars in a loaf of Whole Foods' "Aren't You a Perfectly Superior Neo-Hippie 99-Grain Wheat" than there is in the stuff with the cute little toqued teddy bear on the wrapper. So why is the distinction so important to people who are trying to avoid those same readily-absorbed carbohydrates?

[ExtraMSG]

Well, I think that depends. eg. a lot of whole grain breads at the supermarket are hardly whole grain. It's like salting the top of a loaf of bread. So in that sense, you're correct. There's nothing guaranteed by eating whole grain breads.

However, there are breads that are truly high in dietary fiber and with significantly lower net carbs. Even your standard whole grain vs white will have maybe 5 times the dietary fiber, cutting the net carbs to maybe 8 instead of 14. When your daily allowance is 20 or 30 grams of net carbs, that can make a difference. And when companies jump on the low-carb bandwagon they make sure they get low net-carb wraps and buns so they can claim only "11 net carbs" like Subway is currently doing.

Since Atkin's and the like tell people to look at the nutritional data, "whole grain breads" is just a direction which they point people.

[bleachboy]

I dunno about you guys, but when I was growing up, "hamburger patty" showed up on the menu pretty frequently as the meat item. Not as a replacement for a bunned hamburger either, which my dad would often cook on weekends. Just a patty of ground beef, usually cooked until briquette in the oven, and topped with catsup.

Maybe I just had a mother who couldn't cook.

Nevertheless, eating a hamburger patty with some vegetables as a meal doesn't seem wierd to me at all. (Eating a Whopper or a Hardee's Thickburger without a bun does strike me as marginally wierd simply due to the low quality of the beef, but that's my food snob coming out, I suppose!)

[Holly Moore]

All quite true; thanks for correcting without contradicting. But going back to my main point, the glycemics are still a sticking point. There is only a fraction less readily-absorbed simple sugars in a loaf of Whole Foods' "Aren't You a Perfectly Superior Neo-Hippie 99-Grain Wheat" than there is in the stuff with the cute little toqued teddy bear on the wrapper. So why is the distinction so important to people who are trying to avoid those same readily-absorbed carbohydrates?

It is indeed the glycemic index. As to store labels - Sugar Busters, at least, says go directly to the ingredient statement. Whole wheat flour is not acceptable. Only whole grain whole wheat flour is. Don't know what the difference is, just know that I'm down 60 lbs with Sugar Busters and that when, after surgery when I went off it for about 9 months, but ate reasonably, I didn't put back any of the lost pounds.

Fortunately, here in Philadelphia, we have Metropolitan Bakery which bakes up some of the best bread I've ever had and who does a great whole grain sandwich loaf. But I've seen acceptable breads in Trader Joe's and Whole Foods too - just not nearly as good.

[mpav]

I love carbs, love to bake and cook them, love to eat them, love even more that by limiting carbs I lost 15 painlessly since October. That's actually 3 lbs more than I wanted to lose, so I guess I can indulge for a bit.

I wouldn't do the burger without the bun at a fast food place, but a lean burger on a bed of greens is a great choice for me.

I also wouldn't do the no-roll Philly cheesesteak they sell at the local Carl's. If I'm going for all that fat I'll say what the heck and include the roll. Of course on South Beach the fat is also a discouraged food.

If people want the burger w/o the roll, let them enjoy. To each his peach.

[Midwesterner]

In the extensive discussions about bread that LC eating has generated, people seem to forget that in some respects enriched white bread is nutritionally better than whole grain bread.

[FathyrJack]

Yes , I believe in Harold Mcgee`s On Food and Cooking. He says that due to white bread being enriched and completely digestible , alot more nutrition is obtained from it. Whole wheat breads dont break down as easily and alot of the nutrients go right out with the fiber.

[TPO]

Burger King is the "special orders don't upset us" fast-food restaurant. I'm sure for decades you could order a whopper without the bun. This is just an excuse to spend more marketing money trying to get Atkins dieters to choose Burger King over Subway or another place.

[tommy]

Burger King is the "special orders don't upset us" fast-food restaurant. I'm sure for decades you could order a whopper without the bun. This is just an excuse to spend more marketing money trying to get Atkins dieters to choose Burger King over Subway or another place.

right. surely there are many people who never realized that you could order a burger without the bun. smart and effective marketing indeed.

we should also consider if they've offered different packaging that they may not have had for all of those years.

Edited January 23, 2004 by tommy (log)