Most Overrated Wine Region

[Brad Ballinger]

I would love to hear of a good value for the money champagne. My knowledge consists mostly of the big names indeed.

I'm going to be a bit of a jellyfish and say that, of course, it depends on your definition of value. But I believe your first post addressed the lack of character or complexity issue. And that's what I can address more certainly than whether or not a particular wine or price range is a value.

Here's my short list of small producers making distinctive wines of character. For me, at any rate, they are a comparative value when placed dollar for dollar alongside the big houses.

Larmandier-Bernier (the Nombre d'Or uses ancient grape varieties)

Pierre Peters

Diebolt-Vallois

Fleury

Jean Milan

Lallement

H. Billiot

Egly-Ouriet (particularly the rose and V.V.)

Rene Geoffroy

Tarlant

Ployez-Jacquemart

Those are just off the top of my head.

[Pan]

What do you think of Taittinger? To me, their champagne is pure ambrosia.

[Andre]

I would love to hear of a good value for the money champagne. My knowledge consists mostly of the big names indeed.

I'm going to be a bit of a jellyfish and say that, of course, it depends on your definition of value. But I believe your first post addressed the lack of character or complexity issue. And that's what I can address more certainly than whether or not a particular wine or price range is a value.

Here's my short list of small producers making distinctive wines of character. For me, at any rate, they are a comparative value when placed dollar for dollar alongside the big houses.

Larmandier-Bernier (the Nombre d'Or uses ancient grape varieties)

Pierre Peters

Diebolt-Vallois

Fleury

Jean Milan

Lallement

H. Billiot

Egly-Ouriet (particularly the rose and V.V.)

Rene Geoffroy

Tarlant

Ployez-Jacquemart

Those are just off the top of my head.

Thank you very much,

Is there a possibility for prices ?

[Brad Ballinger]

What do you think of Taittinger?

Taittinger - I like the wine for its refinement and finesse. There is nothing to possibly offend. But, for me, it's a wine that's better as an aperitif on its own than paired with food. And I like drinking Champagne with food.

Is there a possibility for prices ?

For the "regular" NV bottlings about $24-$35, give or take. This puts them in the same price range as the larger houses, but I think you'll find more character and variety for your dollar. But each producer also has vintage wines and prestige cuvees, which can run up to over $60, but usually fall somewhere in the $30s for vintage to $50s for prestige.

If you are truly looking for value and are willing to go outside the geographical boundaries of Champagne, there is a great thread here on "alternative" sparklers.

[Scott]

Guys,

I think a couple of you are missing the point, lets try to separate personal preference away from the intrinsic qualities of a region.

For 1 I don't think price is such a good comparator, in that it does not dictate quality. value yes, quality no. Not that this balance isn't important but it can skew a good debate.

Consider both Napa and Champagne:

1. can it deliver great quality - yes

2. can it deliver good quality & value - yes

3. do they offer fair quality across vintages - can do.

4. is there a fair spread of quality at low & high price points - yes, if you know where to look.

5. if you have good knowledge, can you navigate safely at most price points - yes

6. do all producers exhibit a fair pricing policy - N/A

I think much beyond that, personal preference gets in the way. The fact that some Napa dudes gouge doesn't really say much about the region, unless you believe these are genuinely not good wines. At which point, call it overrated.

Champagne is a case in point with the right knowledge, you can get very good quality and price, yes you can go wrong, but it's out there.

Now a couple of regions I hate:

Condrieu - the opening price point of any wine of quality is £25, and goes up. this includes the filth. The top level is not exciting, and there doesn't seem to be an understanding of market forces. These are not modern or responsive estates, and I don't rate the terroir. Yes, yes Vernay does not some ok ones, Yves Cuilleron does some ok, and a nice sticky, and the mother of all bad values - chateau Grillet.

But the grape, it's not capable of complexities, it ages poorly, it matches food badly, and it does not reflect adequately it's underlying terroir. It's pretty and floral, perfumed without any interest on the palate where it's one note city.

It serves best as quaffing VDP from the roussilion, not as the expression of a grand appellation claiming suitable prices.

I will concede one thing, I am quite fond of new world Viogniers. I like Calera and SQN. How can a great old world region be great, when johnny upstart foreigner, betters him so quickly????

Now don't let me start on Jura...

My excessive drivel does not of course make me right, but I have tried enough to be singular in my thinking.

[LOS]

Scott is so right. Chateau Grillet wins this contest, hands down, since it is an appellation to itself.

Napa is still a solid second, though. In an economy like ours, a wine's selling price has an extremely high correlation with the popular opinion of the wine. And that's what I thought we were talking about.

[albie]

Whether ``overrated" is the fairest adjective I might invoke to articulate my impressions of Burgundy, the appellation that more often disappoints than it fulfils the sky-high expectations aroused by its reputation and price. If it can be said that the region can rightfully lay claim to producing the most sublime finest wines in the world, it's equally true that nowhere else does mediocrity carry such a high price; it's a veritable minefield.

To my mind and for my money, I would, with suitably adjusted expectations, much rather opt for the rather rather more modest but quite respectable -- and fairly consistent -- expressions of the Pinot Noir grape to be found in Oregon, California's central coast, Carneros, and in Sonoma county along the Russian River Valley and coast; in New Zealand, and more recently, in Australia.

It's amusing to compare the paeans that Burgundians sing to the uniqueness of their ``terroir" with the recurrent revelations about the ``tweaking" abuses of concurrent chaptalisation and acidification.