A recovering vegetarian

[beachcove]

Had dinner tonight with a dear friend who has been a vegetarian for about 20+ years. To my total astonishment, she expressed an interest in starting to eat the odd bit of meat occasionally.

She seems to have acquired the idea that it will help her mental functioning.

I was secretly delighted, but didn't want to push her either way.

I asked her if there was any meat she remembered enjoying, and the first word out of her mouth was BACON!! I could have cried. I was so proud.

She's been in getting in training by eating scrambled eggs...

She thought she might just go totally nuts and try to eat a cheeseburger, but I'm not so sure that's a good idea.

I would love to be able to recommend some dishes, strategies, etc. for her.

Can you guys help?

[Mabelline]

My gram always called fish "brain food", why not salmon? But to be perfectly serious, she probably needs to restart kind of carefully. I would think mild, easily digested stuff to ready herself for BACON!!!

[Carolyn Tillie]

When Shawn and I first started dating, in the beginning few weeks I hadn't realized he had been ordering non-meat items in restaurant (I mean, who doesn't occasionally order a great Fettuccine Alfredo. Vegetable Tempura, or Falafel anyway?)

The very first weekend we spent together, I woke up Sunday morning and snuck into the kitchen to prepare us a lavish breakfast. As the bacon was sizzling and crackling in the pan, he stumbled into the kitchen, half asleep, sniffing the air.

"I haven't smelled bacon in eight years!" he explained.

With nary a thought to his previously healthy lifestyle, he dove into breakfast and never looked back.

Ah, the power of bacon...

[chickenlady]

I, myself, am currently on the long road to recovery. Frankly, not eating or knowing how to prepare meat has been a detriment to my catering and I am determined to recify this. I started by adding back seafood, then poultry (not sure why there should be some sort or heirarchy, but that's how I saw it). I kind of stalled out there for a couple years, but in the last year I've started adding back small bits of processed meats as ingredients in other dishes. Bits of andouille in a soup, prosciutto, ham in a stir-fry. Oh! And those Fabulous Chinese sausages--Yum! Somehow those processed meats don't seems quite so "meat-like" or threatening. I also have tastes of my husband's steaks and such. I've gotten pretty comfortable with those and I'm starting to think about moving on to the real thing. I even selected a ham over a turkey as my Christmas food bonus this year.

I would start out adding bits to dishes she likes. Once/if she feels comfortable with those, you can get a little more direct.

[Mabelline]

Yep, that's what I meant. The system is notready for shock-if it causes discomfort she might back off. And pork-lean pork- is mild and flavorishious-sp?

[Raynickben]

My brother had meat accidentally after 13 years of not eating it and was violently ill. You do have to introduce it slowly and carefully. I am sure there is some medical information available out there that would help.

[Mabelline]

Is she ovo,lacto,vegan, or what? Does she eat real cheese,real eggs?Sorry, I just re-read where you said she's doing scrambled eggs. What about some real broths? Chicken's easy,easy,and good.

Edited December 23, 2003 by Mabelline (log)

[Busboy]

The obvious solution is a BLT. It's 2/3 vegetarian and 1/3 BACON! After that you can ease her into the other major food groups: barbecue, charcouterie and prime rib.

[adoxograph]

What is it about PORK, I wonder, that drives our meat free souls crazy? Almost every vegetarian I know who reverted or converted did so following the lure of ham, bacon or sausage.

My suggestions would be to start with small substitutions - chicken broth for vegetable in soups, risotto, etc. Also, before jumping in with a triple hamburger, start with small portions of meat. The highly dense protein that is meat may feel a bit, ahem, heavy at first - I know that whenever a proper protien crosses my plate I'm amazed at how little I eat before feeling full. It is truly a disappointment how much less sushi I can pack away. :) As her ravenous desire grows, she can move on to the pound-of-bacon-on-white-bread sandwich.

Applause to her for making a dietary decision based on her needs - too many vegetarians don't necessarily take their own health into account when leaving the path of the carnivore to begin with.

[Ellen Shapiro]

VERY hard to generalize on this. As a member of the Recovering Vegetarian Society (I was veg for 12 years) I can only speak for myself. I have a very strong GI system and was not veg for ethical reasons, I just didn't like the taste of meat so I stopped eating it and that became a lifestyle. I decided to get back into it because I was craving it, because I thought I was getting insufficient nutrition otherwise, and because the foodie lifestyle sort of demands it.

I started off with a Peter Luger steak, Gray Kunz's short ribs at Lespinasse, hot dogs at Gray's Papaya, and a hamburger at Cafe Centro back when Centro's beer bar had one of the best burgers. All in the same weekend. YMMV.

[jsolomon]

I will start by saying that typically grains (and nuts, especially peanuts) are much more allergenic than meats. Yes, there are huge examples on both sides, but from some research I have done, typically they are more allergenic.

That being said, if your friend is worried about a reaction, then she should start eating small amounts of meat. Lean is most likely better as her gall bladder may not have caught up to large amounts of grease. Then again, it may have.

But, if she's generally in good health and does not suffer from an irritable digestive tract, I can't foresee any great harm in having her eat what she feels like.

So, I would say something that really helps bacon stand out like the BLT that has already been suggested or Spaghette alla carbonara. Even a simple salad with bacon bits could be enough to start your friend on the road to recovery.

I usually break my significant others in with feeding them heart. But, I'm slightly cracked.

[Mabelline]

Is that your way of letting them know your opinion of their emotional health: " here, babe, you could use some of this here stuff".

[Hest88]

Definitely start slowly, with perhaps fish and bits of chicken.

Of course, my sister, who was a vegetarian for years, fell off the wagon with a pepperoni stick and a pastrami sandwich.

[AzRaeL]

amen to that!

there's nothing quite like thick sliced bacon

on thick cut slice of bread

with a few slices of brie or emmental

oh and a slice of tomato

maybe add a poached egg on top

garnish generously with handshred basil.

[uberleet]

Applause to her for making a dietary decision based on her needs - too many vegetarians don't necessarily take their own health into account when leaving the path of the carnivore to begin with.

Are you claiming that a vegetarian diet is somehow less than healthy?

I agree with the the "needs-based" diet approach, but there just isn't a health issue with a vegetarian diet, from a dietary perspective. For example, I had a vegetarian roommate in college who ate nothing but ramen and frozen french fries. He was always sick. Here's a case where correlation did not equal causation - that is, he made poor dietary choices - but the vegetarianism wasn't what was causing his problems. He would have had the same problems if he ate meat.

[tryska]

i would say a vegetarian diet can be unhealthy yes.

mainly due to lectins in grains, beans, nuts, seeds, some fruits, and various legumes.

Edited December 23, 2003 by tryska (log)

[Suzanne F]

What's a lectin? And aren't many of those the same foods that are GOOD because in combination they give complete protein? I'm confused

[adoxograph]

I don't think a vegetarian diet is unhealthy, especially since I'm mostly living on one. :) I just know too many people who have made the "oh the poor animals" decision to cut out meat, or the "well, my friends are" decision, or scariest of all, a recovering anorexic who became a vegan because that was a way she could still maintain that sort of control over her diet - people who don't take the time to find out how to replace necessary nutrients, or heedlessly continue such a diet when their health has been affected.

Just as there is pressure to get the vegetarian to eat meat (not that anyone here is guilty of that. :) ), there is also pressure from other vegetarians to stay vegetarian even when you feel you shouldn't. I am applauding this choice because she feels like this is what her body needs.

[uberleet]

i would say a vegetarian diet can be unhealthy yes.

mainly due to lectins in grains, beans, nuts, seeds, some fruits, and various legumes.

I think I missed your point. I googled lectins, and there is one pseudo-scientific paper fulled with a bunch of mumbo-jumbo (as relates to diet, anyway). Is that what you're citing? Can you point me to some serious research? Are these the same people that promote soy == bad?

Suzanne F., I think you're thinking of lysine.

[tryska]

What's a lectin? And aren't many of those the same foods that are GOOD because in combination they give complete protein? I'm confused

lectins are plant proteins that basically the serve as protection form the plant being eaten.

this is why us humans have to cook most of our plant-based foods before we can digest them - since it deactivates these lectins in one way or the other. also one of the reasons cows have 4 stomachs.

one of the problems is that certain lectins look remarkably like proteins in our bodies, and can, if not cause, then aggravate various auto-immune disorders (rheumatoid arthritis, fibromyalgia, etc).

it's all good if you eat some plant foods, along with some animal foods, and basically eat a balanced diet, but if you swing too much in either direction, their tends to be higher risks of disease of one sort or another.

[uberleet]

I don't think a vegetarian diet is unhealthy, especially since I'm mostly living on one. :)  I just know too many people who have made the "oh the poor animals" decision to cut out meat, or the "well, my friends are" decision, or scariest of all, a recovering anorexic who became a vegan because that was a way she could still maintain that sort of control over her diet - people who don't take the time to find out how to replace necessary nutrients, or heedlessly continue such a diet when their health has been affected.

Just as there is pressure to get the vegetarian to eat meat (not that anyone here is guilty of that. :) ), there is also pressure from other vegetarians to stay vegetarian even when you feel you shouldn't.  I am applauding this choice because she feels like this is what her body needs.

I misunderstood your original post, I apologize for the assumption that you were "anti-vegetarian." I'm like you, I eat very little meat, but I don't let a "vegetarian" tag drive my diet (or my life) - well, not anymore.

Pressure on vegetarians to eat meat? I went to a sandwich shop once, and tried to order a turkey sandwich without turkey (I was willing to pay full price, too!) - the owner refused to make it for me. "You have to have the turkey!" he said! I still wonder what he was thinking...sounds like a prominent chef who posts here

[uberleet]

What's a lectin?  And aren't many of those the same foods that are GOOD because in combination they give complete protein?  I'm confused 

lectins are plant proteins that basically the serve as protection form the plant being eaten.

this is why us humans have to cook most of our plant-based foods before we can digest them - since it deactivates these lectins in one way or the other. also one of the reasons cows have 4 stomachs.

one of the problems is that certain lectins look remarkably like proteins in our bodies, and can, if not cause, then aggravate various auto-immune disorders (rheumatoid arthritis, fibromyalgia, etc).

it's all good if you eat some plant foods, along with some animal foods, and basically eat a balanced diet, but if you swing too much in either direction, their tends to be higher risks of disease of one sort or another.

There's no research to support that.

[tryska]

I think I missed your point. I googled lectins, and there is one pseudo-scientific paper fulled with a bunch of mumbo-jumbo (as relates to diet, anyway). Is that what you're citing? Can you point me to some serious research? Are these the same people that promote soy == bad?

you googled lectins and came up with pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo?

hmm. i typically get my science from peer-reviewed journals, actually. you could try searching within BMJ.com and PubMed.

anyways - no it doesn't come from the soy = bad people, altho the effects of soy on thyroid functioning is definitely worth noting. as for soy giving men boobs, i'm not entirely certain - if anything it may help with blocking estrogen receptors up, perhaps helping those who experience gynecomastia during puberty. don't quote me on that tho.

[tryska]

There's no research to support that.

apparently people are researching it....

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/318/7190/1023

edit - actually waht's more interesting than this article itself, are the sources sited at the end - it may help you with your research.

Edited December 23, 2003 by tryska (log)

[uberleet]

There's no research to support that.

apparently people are researching it....

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/318/7190/1023

edit - actually waht's more interesting than this article itself, are the sources sited at the end - it may help you with your research. :)

Thanks for the link! It's a very interesting article, and I stand corrected.

The "paper" here was what I was referring to. It's pretty typical of internet science. The article you cite warns of overzealous early adopters like this.