Chicken-Fried Steak: Chicken or Steak?

[wesza]

As a Yankee totally unfettered by nostalgia or fealty to a particular tradition, I make a dish with veal scallopini that I call "chicken fried veal." (Essentially schnitzel but with cornmeal mixed in with the flour, buttermilk instead of milk, and peanut oil for frying.) I just think veal is better than beef for this application. My favorite time of year to make chicken fried veal is at the peak of corn season, so I can serve it with fresh local corn-on-the-cob. And I add mushrooms to the cream gravy. A lot of mushrooms. Too bad morel season and corn season don't coincide.

Fat Guy: Your dish isn't as unusual as it seems. Plus taking into consideration that if your using Morel Mushrooms in a Cream Sauce that Dried Morels are superior to fresh for that purpose.

That was something that I learned from Albert Stockli and James Beard when we utilized a similar dish for "The Four Seasons Restaurant", during the two years of the New York Worlds Fair Celebration.

We made a dish using "Bobby Veal" [Veal thats started eating Grass] made into Cutlets, washed with milk, floured, dipped into egg wash then coated with a yellow coarse corn meal, seminolia flour base, then sauted in a butter/peanut oil mixture

These were served with Pan Browned Polenta Rounds and a Morels and Cream Sauce only using the Indian Imported Dry Morels, softened in White Wine.

It was a terrific dish and became very popular with the regular customers during that period.

As for Country Fried Steak I feel there is no comparison, since this dish is what i'd consider Chuck Wagon, Road House or Cafe Food. I'd imagine that if you'd try serving something resembling a Morel Mushroom to the general Country Steak ordering population the reaction would be definately interesting.

Irwin

[fifi]

I'd imagine that if you'd try serving something resembling a Morel Mushroom to the general Country Steak ordering population the reaction would be definately interesting.

Yeah... Sort of like "GIT A ROPE!"

[Jason Perlow]

Ok, now that we know what Chicken Fried Steak is, what's Chicken Fried Chicken?

EDIT: Its chicken breast prepared like Chicken Fried Steak.

http://www.texascooking.com/recipes/chickenfriedchicken.htm

I mean, it sounds kinda redundant.

Edited December 19, 2003 by Jason Perlow (log)

[Fat Guy]

taking into consideration that if your using Morel Mushrooms in a Cream Sauce that Dried Morels are superior to fresh for that purpose

I learn something new every day.

[ExtraMSG]

Fat Guy: Your dish isn't as unusual as it seems. Plus taking into consideration that if your using Morel Mushrooms in a Cream Sauce that Dried Morels are superior to fresh for that purpose.

I was going to say the same thing. Plus, you don't have to clean out the grubs from the inside of the morels. Dried morels are ridiculously expensive, though.

Ok, now that we know what Chicken Fried Steak is, what's Chicken Fried Chicken?

EDIT: Its chicken breast prepared like Chicken Fried Steak.

http://www.texascooking.com/recipes/chickenfriedchicken.htm

I mean, it sounds kinda redundant.

You can't call "chicken fried chicken" "fried chicken" though because that's something else. There are also chicken tenders. Chicken fried chicken is my wife's favorite thing in the world just about. I like a mix of corn meal, flour, and bread crumbs. I dredge in a seasoned flour first, then egg/milk, then the mixture of starches. I think it provides the most interesting texture. Regardless, though, always use bread crumbs. Much, much better. And pound out your chicken and steak with the pokey end of a tenderizer/mallet to about 1/4 inch thick or even thinner.

[Al_Dente]

For those in the Wash DC area, Southside 815 in Old Town Alexandria makes a killer CFS. The southern cooking is so authentic there that Strom Thurmond once had a mild heart attack in the dining room.

[GSBravo]

Ok, now that we know what Chicken Fried Steak is, what's Chicken Fried Chicken?

EDIT: Its chicken breast prepared like Chicken Fried Steak.

http://www.texascooking.com/recipes/chickenfriedchicken.htm

I mean, it sounds kinda redundant.

But that's okay, considering that it's mostly a Southern food. And Southerners are known for given their kids two names. Bobby Jo, Ruth Ann, etc.

[slkinsey]

Dried morels are ridiculously expensive, though.

Not if you're me! One year when I was in high school, my parents opened the front door of our house in Boston to discover the entire front yard awash in morels that had popped up overnight! They picked them all, took them to the lab and freeze dried them. This happened several years in a row and then just as mysteriously stopped. We still have a huge bag of freeze dried morels.

[tommy]

sam, that's an incredible story. if they can grow there, i have to ask: why can't i grow them? or at the very least, why can't your parents' neighbors grow them?

[slkinsey]

I think it's a mystery. We still don't know how to cultivate most kinds of mushrooms (or truffles), or even necessarily know why they grow in one place and not another. If we knew more, porcini and chanterelles, etc. would be as cheap as portobellos.

I actually think that decent mushrooms pop up more frequently than people think. It's just too bad that most people don't know enough about mushrooms to take advantage of it. The average American, upon waking to see his lawns covered with brown-gray spongy fungus would immediately head for the lawn mower. The only reason we were lucky in that regard is that my parents are both scientists and, due to the incredible mushroom activity around our house in Western NC, they decided to learn everything they could about North American mushrooms so we could pick and eat wild mushrooms. (There are, BTW, mushrooms known as "false morels" that you don't want to eat.)

[Varmint]

(There are, BTW, mushrooms known as "false morels" that you don't want to eat.)

I'm a lawyer. I know all there is to know about false morals.

Oh, sorry, I misread that.

[Suzanne F]

What's all y'all's opinion of using Wondra for the flour?

[slkinsey]

Might be an interesting idea. Certainly it is the case that the average Southerner will be using a softer, lower protein flour to make CFS. Using Wondra would probably give it a nice effect, but one that isn't entirely traditional, I'd guess. You should try it!

[Mabelline]

For those in the Wash DC area, Southside 815 in Old Town Alexandria makes a killer CFS. The southern cooking is so authentic there that Strom Thurmond once had a mild heart attack in the dining room. 

Now that there has got to be Authentic! And Suzanne, I know a few people usin' Wondra.

I always heard chicken-fried steak's a Texas extension of the Germans settling the hill country, and that after the war of northern aggression there were so many cattle around. It was a combo of longhorn beef, little liquid assets, and German technique. And evolved. I feel the most important things are exactly like wesza told you.The blister has to be just right-and not overdone.

Edited December 19, 2003 by Mabelline (log)

[Dave the Cook]

I always heard chicken-fried steak's a Texas extension of the Germans settling the hill country, and that after the war of northern aggression there were so many cattle around. It was a combo of longhorn beef, little liquid assets, and German technique. And evolved.

So CFS = Texas Wiener Schnitzel?

[Mabelline]

Oh, no, no. That's a hot dog stand!

[Lone Star]

Y'all are missing the most important ingredient in the making of a good chicken fried steak - the sack.

Chicken fried steak, like fried chicken cannot be properly prepared without a brown paper grocery sack, preferably from the Piggly-Wiggly or the Winn-Dixie.

The flour, salt and pepper (and a little garlic powder if you are feeling wild) are thrown into the sack. The tenderized steaks are thrown in after they have been drenched in milk, or not, and the top of the sack rolled down three times. Then you shake the daylights out it and place your perfectly coated steaks in the hot oil.

This is an essential ingredient and should not be overlooked.

And please - keep the brown gravy away from your delicious chicken-fry! Brown gravy is for hamburger steaks and roast. It will ruin a good chicken fried steak.

The only time rice is an option is when you are too lazy to peel potatoes.

btw - my daughters name is Carla Jo.

[Mayhaw Man]

I mean, it sounds kinda redundant.

But that's okay, considering that it's mostly a Southern food. And Southerners are known for given their kids two names. Bobby Jo, Ruth Ann, etc.

[GSBravo]

So, I suppose your generalization is true (at least it was true in the South until the sixties, you don't see it so much any more).

How's this for a generalization: my youngest sister is Shannon Michelle, my oldest sister is Cathleen Marie, my brother Thomas Franklin. Also, growing up I knew a Keith Brian, a Brian Keith, and a Roger Nelson.

And my mom used to try to convince me that the Beach Boys wrote a song about her, Barbara Ann.

[Mabelline]

Lone Star, you definitely hit the nail on the head. I have been using IGA and Albertson's bags!

[slkinsey]

So, I suppose your generalization is true (at least it was true in the South until the sixties, you don't see it so much any more).

How's this for a generalization: my youngest sister is Shannon Michelle, my oldest sister is Cathleen Marie, my brother Thomas Franklin. Also, growing up I knew a Keith Brian, a Brian Keith, and a Roger Nelson.

And my mom used to try to convince me that the Beach Boys wrote a song about her, Barbara Ann.

Unfortunately one rarelysees the truly colorful Southern names of old any more, like this one from one of my favorite Faulkner novels: Admiral Dewey Snopes.

[Varmint]

Unfortunately one rarely the truly colorful Southern names of old any more, like this one from one of my favorite Faulkner novels: Admiral Dewey Snopes.

Hell, my old law firm, which is a well known "Southern" firm had these guys: Julian, who went by "Bo"; Amos, who went by "Buck"; and Nigle, who went by "Tex".

There's plenty of good ol' southern names around here. Not much good chicken fried steak, however.

[fifi]

I will second Lone Star's assertion as to the brown paper sack. I mentioned it but didn't give it the status it deserves. (The same is true for southern fried chicken, BTW.) I don't know why but I am sure it has something to do with the way the flour impacts the pieces of meat and incorporates the flour into whatever liquid is on the steak, seasoned buttermilk in my case.

I tried Wondra on some steak "stips" once (not really the same thing as that big piece that is classic CFS) and I didn't really like the texture that much. It wasn't "bad" just not like a CFS crust and I was comparing it to my expectations.

[Mayhaw Man]

Unfortunately one rarelysees the truly colorful Southern names of old any more, like this one from one of my favorite Faulkner novels: Admiral Dewey Snopes.

It's funny you referenced The Snopes clan, as I did the same here. This is a term that has come into pretty common usage among literate rednecks when reffering to our "less well read" relations and acquaintances. Faulkner understood the type better than most and it reflects in his seriocomic writings involving that family of ne'er do wells.

My grandfathers name was Absalom (A.C. Oliver, Cass County Texas), you don't see that much anymore. In fact, Hezekiah, Zachariah, etc., mostly biblical names seemed to have gone by the wayside. I still think they sound kind of cool.

[wesza]

I will second Lone Star's assertion as to the brown paper sack. I mentioned it but didn't give it the status it deserves. (The same is true for southern fried chicken, BTW.) I don't know why but I am sure it has something to do with the way the flour impacts the pieces of meat and incorporates the flour into whatever liquid is on the steak, seasoned buttermilk in my case.

I tried Wondra on some steak "stips" once (not really the same thing as that big piece that is classic CFS) and I didn't really like the texture that much. It wasn't "bad" just not like a CFS crust and I was comparing it to my expectations.

Whoa Lone Star and others: Maybe for your home cooking you can use a paper sack. True it must be "Kraft Paper". Now comes the BUT.

In Restaurant service your not able to utilize "Sacking the Meats". And more important when your serving a Slice of pounded out "Top Round" it's generally large enough to overlap the edges of most plates.

If you've ever tried Shaking and Coating a Hunk of Beef that large you've come to the conclusion that invariably it often stick together becoming a Glob of Beef, no longer resembling a slice. This of course doesn't apply to Wuss sized Steaks something no Texas or Southern Restaurant would ever try to serve. If i'm not mistaken customers would become suspicious if you attempted to serve several small pieces or a "Patty", "Cube Steak" or any contrived stuff. [it's sure done now a days].

It's still true that the real thing is expected to become curled when being fried to verify that the meat was fresh, non of that aged, processed or tenderized stuff is acceptable.

The other big sin is that it should never be "Deep Fried", only Pan Fried is authentic.

Now we come to another modern adaptation, using All Purpose Flour or Wondra in place of a High Ratio/Gluten Bread Type Flour. It doesn't taste the same ! Especially if your making any type of Pan Gravy The whole thing depends on the little bits and pieces coming together. It's part of the whole package, like only using fresh prepared Bread Crumbs in place of packaged Bread Crumbs or even Cracker Crumbs.

It's certainly okay to tweak, or prepare dishes your way at home, but during the period that this standard dish evolved you had to be very carefull fooling around with what your customers have come to expect. Wonder what would have been the result if my Uncle served Chicken Fried Steak with Garlic?

I once dared to serve "Roast Prime Rib" to a "Grange League Federation Dinner" that was cooked "Medium Rare".

Good thing we had a large pot of Au Jus on the stove, because we had to get the Color out of the Beef real quick or ELSE.

Irwin