"The Eater's Guide to Chinese Characters": Chinese Food & Eating Translations

[jo-mel]

However in China 46's case -- the "9 Fish" is actually interpreted as "Many Fish" or "abundance of fish" correct? Its from a Chinese saying that goes along the lines of "may you never run out of fish" or something like that, right?

In a fish tank inside a Chinese restaurant, it is customary to keep a total of nine fish. Not eight, not ten, has to be nine. I am not sure what the reason is.

It perhaps has to do with the sound association. Nine in Chinese (at least in Cantonese, pronounced as "Gau") sounds the same as "Forever" (also "Gau"). It would mean the business will run forever. Fish in Cantonese (pronounced "Yu") sounds the same as "Excess" (which is good, it means you have made more than expected). So Nine Fish can have an associated meaning of "Having excess forever").

Not sure how that translates to "China 46".

Jason -- the '9 Fish', as 'longevity and abundance' is also represented in a "9-Fish scroll" that Cecil has on his wall in China 46.

The sign outside the restaurant has 9 as 九, and it is also on his menu, but his logo uses the 9 - 久 which also means 'long time', so either 'jiu' gives the meaning of long or forever.

All in all, it is an auspicious meaning for a business--- which the name China 46 lacks.

hrtz-- I didn't know that about the fish tank. Do they keep extra fish on the side so that they can keep the tank census up?

[jo-mel]

The 'mei-wah- site went to a lot of trouble translating the menu selections -- as did McCawley in his handy little book. But when there are no Chinese characters on a menu, and no explanation for a dish, then you are up the creek and can only guess what, for instance, "Garlic Double Delight" is.

The take-out menu I have in front of me has that dish, and it does have both the characters and a description of the dish. (It's a Yu Hsiang dish with shrimp and scallops)

But the same menu has a listing of "Boneless Chicken" -- with characters saying just that --- wu gu ji, but that is it. Nothing on what the dish is all about. I can guess, but I usually don't guess when I order something.

[hzrt8w]

hrtz-- I didn't know that about the fish tank. Do they keep extra fish on the side so that they can keep the tank census up?

This 9 fish custom applies only to the decorative kind of fish tanks, not the kinds that keep the fish (food) alive. Typically they put in gold fish, corral fish, or carps. The upscale restaurants may put in a “Lon Tow Geu” [Cantonese] 龙吐珠 (not sure what the English name is) along with 8 other small corral fish in the tank. If one fish dies (or gets eaten) they would need to put in a replacement right away.

Next time you visit a Chinese restaurant with a big decorative fish tank at the entrance, take a count.

Edited July 26, 2004 by hzrt8w (log)

[Laksa]

All in all, it is an auspicious meaning for a business--- which the name China 46 lacks.

The Chinese take puns very seriously, don't they (we)?

What surprises me is that the owner of China 46 would allow "46" in the English version of their name. 4 shares the same sound as "to die" in Cantonese, and the more superstitious would avoid it like the plague.

[Jason Perlow]

All in all, it is an auspicious meaning for a business--- which the name China 46 lacks.

The Chinese take puns very seriously, don't they (we)?

What surprises me is that the owner of China 46 would allow "46" in the English version of their name. 4 shares the same sound as "to die" in Cantonese, and the more superstitious would avoid it like the plague.

Yeah, but its a Shanghainese/Sichuan restaurant and he speaks Mandarin and Shanghainese.

[jo-mel]

It's the same in Mandarin. But, since the restaurant is on Route 46, he might have followed the reasoning of Chengdu 46 , a reknowned restaurant down the road a few miles. I guess he's glad he's not located on Route 4 which is not far away!!

But aside from the negative aspect of '4', there is/are the 'four happiness', virtues, seasons etc. --- all positive things. Then again there's the '4 bad habits'! (all guy things! LOL!)

[hzrt8w]

But the same menu has a listing of  "Boneless Chicken" -- with characters saying just that --- wu gu ji, but that is it. Nothing on what the dish is all about. I can guess, but I usually don't guess when I order something.

Oh, jo-mel, don't you know enough about Chinese food by now? There is only *ONE* way to cook boneless chicken!

Seriously, many Chinese restaurant operators are guilty of providing non-descriptive names for menu entries. Hopefully most would provide brief descriptions on what the dishes are. But a few just leave the patrons guessing.

For example, can you guess what these dishes are:

The Odd Couple [sauteed Shrimps and Scallopes with snow peas]

House Special Chicken [can be anything really... one happens to be

chicken with garlic and scallion]

Double Happiness [shrimp and beef stir-fried with vegetables]

Imperial Shrimp [sichuan style shrimp with garlic and tomato sauce]

There really is no standard English translations for Chinese dishes. One's imagination is still a predominant factor.

Edited July 29, 2004 by hzrt8w (log)

[Laksa]

House Special <insert ingredient> is the Chinese menu writer's way of saying, "I can't think of an original name for this dish".

[Gary Soup]

Anything called "Happy Family" we avoid like the plague. It usually signals too many competing ingredients for Shanghainese cooking sensibilities.

[jo-mel]

A take-out menu from Shun Lee, a renown NYC restaurant has no Chinese characters in their little leaflet, and no explanation for the dishes. Some things like Sizzling Scallops with Vegetables give a clue, but how about Chicken with Three Different Nuts. They also have things like:

Neptune's Net

Heavenly Fish Fillet

Chan Do Chicken ?? I don't know Cantonese. No characters. ChengDu Chicken??

They must spend time explaining dishes when they are ordered.

Question -- Is "Chef's Special Sauce" really special?

[Qing]

China46 ‘s Chinese name is 九鱼, and its pronunciation matches the Chinese saying

久久有余. It is great for business owners, because it says, “Always has some extra cash.”

Cecil and all business owners believe that as the Number one important principle of management.

[jo-mel]

China46 ‘s Chinese name is 九鱼, and its pronunciation matches the Chinese saying

久久有余. It is great for business owners, because it says, “Always has some extra cash.”

Cecil and all business owners believe that as the Number one important principle of management.

That's it! Thanks for clearing that up.

[hzrt8w]

九鱼 = 久久有余. 

That's it! Thanks for clearing that up.

Does China 46 have a fish tank? If so, did you count?

[Laksa]

China46 ‘s Chinese name is 九鱼, and its pronunciation matches the Chinese saying

久久有余. It is great for business owners, because it says, “Always has some extra cash.” 

Cecil and all business owners believe that as the Number one important principle of management.

I think that always having some extra cash should be the number one principle of life!

[hzrt8w]

Typically they put in gold fish, corral fish, or carps.  The upscale restaurants may put in a “Lon Tow Geu” [Cantonese] 龙吐珠 (not sure what the English name is) along with 8 other small corral fish in the tank.

In a trip to the San Francisco Academy of Science Steinhart Aquarium, I learned the English name for this fish commonly kept in the aquarium tanks in Chinese restaurants.

[Edit notes: I had posted the wrong picture in this original post. Please see my later posts for corrected information. I have deleted this incorrect picture.]

Edited August 9, 2004 by hzrt8w (log)

[Laksa]

hzrt8w,

when you first posted about 龙吐珠，the fish that came first to my mind was the arawana, (Osteoglossum bicirrhosum) a prized aquarium fish among the Chinese in SE Asia.

When I saw the picture you posted, I thought I was looking at an arawana as well. Links in this post will take you to photos of fish that look a lot like the fish in your post. The golden Asia Arawana apparently is particularly sought after.

The osteoglossum bicirrhosum and scleropages formosus both belong to the osteoglossidae family.

[hzrt8w]

When I saw the picture you posted, I thought I was looking at an arawana as well.  Links in this post will take you to photos of fish that look a lot like the fish in your post.  The golden Asia Arawana apparently is particularly sought after.

The osteoglossum bicirrhosum and scleropages formosus both belong to the osteoglossidae family.

Laksa: you are right. I was confused and I used the wrong picture for posting.

I did some more research, I found that osteroglossum bicirrhosum (Arawana, Arowana, Arrowana) lives in the Amazon, and scleropages formosus (Asian Arawana) lives in Indonesia. The picture I posted yesterday was an osteroglossum bicirrhosum, not scleropages formosus. The fish I saw at the San Francisco aquarium was scleropages formosus. I got them mixed up.

I have seen both species in fish tanks in Chinese restaurants. Come to think of it, it's probably because the restaurants in Hong Kong use scleropages formosus (Asian Arawana) since Hong Kong is close to Indonesia, while the restaurants in USA use osteroglossum bicirrhosum (Arawana) since the USA is close to South America.

Both species are beautiful. After taking a closer look, I think one major difference (which you can tell right away) is the back fin. Arawana has a much longer, blade-like back fin than Asian Arawana.

Here is the corrected picture of scleropages formosus. I put in the picture of osteroglossum bicirrhosum here too for comparison.

Chinese: 龙吐珠

Common name: Asian Bonytongue, Chinese Dragon Fish, Asian Arawana

Latin: Scleropages formosus

Family: Osteoglossidae

Picture of Scleropages formosus:

For more information, click here or here.

--------------------

Common name: Arawana (or Arowana, Arrowana)

Latin: Osteoglossum bicirrhosum

Family: Osteoglossidae

Picture of Osteoglossum bicirrhosum

For more information, click here or here.

--------------------

Jo-mel learned Chinese because she read the Chinese word "three" on a menu once. Who knows, I may become a biologist because I want to find out the name of a fish in a Chinese restaurant...

Does China-46 have either one of these?

Edited August 9, 2004 by hzrt8w (log)

[Qing]

Well, nice pictures,

In China46, we only have live fish for severe, but none for watch.

The Silver and Gold Dragon fish are pretty common, but I haven't seen Red Dragon yet.

I know in Taiwan, individuals feed the Dragon fishes are illegal, but I am not sure in New York. I have been to an aquarium at Chinatown; they sell small Silver or Gold Dragon. You can bring them home and feed them, I heard they are growing pretty fast.

According:

http://habitatnews.nus.edu.sg/guidebooks/f...sh/text/201.htm

Golden Dragon Fish

金龙鱼or龙吐珠鱼

Latin Name : Scleropages Formosus

It is usually kept alone in large tank, as it is highly territorial, but fairly hardy. Three-color varieties are recognized by aquarists, the red红龙, the golden金龙 and the green( We call them Silver Dragon)银龙; of which, the red variety is the most expensive. At present, this majestic fish is banned from sale, as it is an endangered species.

[jo-mel]

Bony tongue! Interesting! I never even thought that tongues could have bones. The second fish looks interesting because of the fin positions. Looks like a lot of rear propulsion, but the tail fin is small.

hzrt -- All those beautiful fish in the tanks of those floating restaurants in Hong Kong---- are they for eating? Or for show?

[herbacidal]

hzrt -- All those beautiful fish in the tanks of those floating restaurants in Hong Kong---- are they for eating? Or for show?

I'm going to suggest that if they are perceived as "beautiful", they're for show.

None of the ones I've seen for eating have been what I would call pretty to look at.

[hzrt8w]

hzrt -- All those beautiful fish in the tanks of those floating restaurants in Hong Kong---- are they for eating? Or for show?

When you said "floating" restaurants, I assume you mean the boat restaurants like Jumbo in Aberdeen. I cannot recall if I had seen an aquarium fish tank at Jumbo as I ate there long time ago.

You can pretty much tell if a given water tank is an aquarium tank or food tank. Aquarium tank: water much clearer with air pump, decorative sand or pebbles at the bottom, and the fish in the tank are much prettier (like tropical coral fish, carp, swordfish, angel fish, gold fish, bony tongue, etc.).

Food tank: (it is for show too... just to show you how fresh your food is) water very murky, no decorative items, only fresh catches. The tank can contain all kinds of fish or lobsters or crabs or shrimps or geoduck clams, etc..

Like Herbacidal said, your food fish is usually not too pretty to look at. (Except a few. One of which is called 老鼠班 (not sure what the English name is), really pretty just to look at and it is a delicacy.) Urrr... shall I do some research again???

[hzrt8w]

Bony tongue! Interesting! I never even thought that tongues could have bones.

It might have gotten this name because of the 2 filler-like thing sticking out from the tip of the mouth, which make it look like the fish has 2 bony tongues.

Here is an enlarged head of Osteoglossum bicirrhosum:

[Laksa]

... One of which is called 老鼠班 (not sure what the English name is), really pretty just to look at and it is a delicacy.)

High fin grouper or mouse grouper.

Edited August 10, 2004 by Laksa (log)

[hzrt8w]

High fin grouper or mouse grouper.

Arr... thank you, Laksa. I knew it was in the grouper family but not sure which one. Isn't it pretty to look at?

[hzrt8w]

Here is the info I gathered about this delicacy:

Chinese name: 老鼠班

Common name: Mouse grouper, humpback grouper

Scientific name: Cromileptes altivelis, serranus altivelis, chromileptis altivelis

Here is the picture of a real fish: Cromileptes altivelis

Isn't it pretty? Note the characteristic humpback. It is very unique.

I don't usually do that much research in the food species that I eat. The more I know about them, the more I wouldn't want to eat them. Are most zoologists vegetarians?