Knife-a-Holic

[Chad]

I wonder why Asian knives don't have Bolsters (full bolsters that is)

Are they meant to be held differently?

The bolster on German and French knives is there primarily for balance these days. I days of yore it was a sign of a fully forged knife. No retail knife is hand forged anymore, so the bolster is kind of a traditional add-on, though it does keep large knives from being too blade heavy.

Regarding grip I can only refer you to Zilla369's Basic Knife Skills class, where the classic chef's "pinch grip" is demonstrated and my own Knife Maintenance & Sharpening Clinic where the evils of the bolster are fully articulated.

You folks sound like tried and true knife knuts, but you still might find something of value.

Chad

edit: can't type that late at night

[CRUZMISL]

I'm only a knife nut because of that article :)

Well Done!!!

Joe

[AzRaeL]

The bloster on German and French knifes is there primarily for balance these days. I days of yore it was a sign of a fully forged knife. No retail knife is hand forged anymore, so the bolster is kind of a traditional add-on, though it does keep large knives from being too blade heavy.

Regarding grip I can only refer you to Zilla369's Basic Knife Skills class, where the classic chef's "pinch grip" is demonstrated and my own Knife Maintenance & Sharpening Clinic where the evils of the bolster are fully articulated.

You folks sound like tried and true knife knuts, but you still might find something of value.

Chad

many thanks to everyone.

i've learnt a lot from this forum.

[budrichard]

Chad, bob will make you anything that he agrees will function. He made a 9" carving knife for me with a flat grind. Yes, it is more difficult to sharpen and it does devlop a patina but when tough chores such as trimming artichokes arise, i reach for a Dozier! Call Linda and discuss what you want. He also makes axes of whic I have one but of a different steel. -Dick

[Chad]

Chad, bob will make you anything that he agrees will function. He made a 9" carving knife for me with a flat grind. Yes, it is more difficult to sharpen and it does devlop a patina but when tough chores such as trimming artichokes arise, i reach for a Dozier! Call Linda and discuss what you want. He also makes axes of whic I have one but of a different steel. -Dick

Hmmm, that's just too tempting. I've talked with Trace Rinaldi about a 10" chef's knife in S30V, but I've never gotten past the daydreaming stage. Now I'm going to have to add Bob Dozier into the equation. Life is just not fair.

Chad

[AzRaeL]

oh one brand that consistently almost never turns up in Knife discussions.

WMF

are they any good? they sure are pricey. They're german forged blades but are they good or crap?

[JC]

budrichard,

Being a sharpness freak, I'm curious... is your Dozier even sharper than the Shiraki yanagiba with it's chisel grind?

Is your Dozier made of D2 as well?

[JC]

Joe,

Beautiful set of Hattoris you have! In use, have you ever experienced any chipping on the santoku?

[budrichard]

JC, they are different blades with the Shiraki being right hand grind and i only use to get square cuts for sushi/sahimi whereas the dozier 9" is a flat grind which i use for carving meat but qualitatevly speaking both would be on a par. Resistance with both knives is so much less than other blades that you have adjust your technique. In direct comparison, the Shiraki is about the same as a Japanese commercial blade that I have. The Shiraki just looks nicer and is made by an individual.

The Dozier is D2. It is only in axes that I know bob uses a different steel. I have many of his knives and they are all very good. bob is one of the great knifemakers. -Dick

[jackal10]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned full carbon knives.

Yes, they are soft and need frequent touching up (OK for geeks). Yes, they discolour, and you can't put them in the dishwasher (but then what knife geek would want to?). But no stainless steel, not even Damascus steel cuts like them...

[Dej]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned full carbon knives.

Yes, they are soft and need frequent touching up (OK for geeks). Yes, they discolour, and you can't put them in the dishwasher (but then what knife geek would want to?). But no stainless steel, not even Damascus steel cuts like them...

I grew up using full carbon knives (my parents had an old set). They actually performed really well given the heaping doses of neglect they got (provided you took a steel to them on every use). Maybe if I get my parents some shiny new stainless knives for Christmas they'll give me those.

Anyone have any experience with these newish knives designed by Porsche? I held a 7" or 8" chef's knife at a store this weekend. It's got great balance (heavy handle) and is quite comfortable in a pinch grip (of course I didn't actually *use* it for anything, just held it). No bolster (which, I'm starting to learn as my Henckels ages, is a plus). Mostly, though, it's hot looking.

Of course, it's marketed mainstream, so it wouldn't appeal to this crowd.

alex

[SG-]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned full carbon knives.

Yes, they are soft and need frequent touching up (OK for geeks). Yes, they discolour, and you can't put them in the dishwasher (but then what knife geek would want to?). But no stainless steel, not even Damascus steel cuts like them...

Most of the traditional and non mainstream (ie Kershaw, Kasumi) japanese knives are full carbon.

[AzRaeL]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned full carbon knives.

Yes, they are soft and need frequent touching up (OK for geeks). Yes, they discolour, and you can't put them in the dishwasher (but then what knife geek would want to?). But no stainless steel, not even Damascus steel cuts like them...

Most of the traditional and non mainstream (ie Kershaw, Kasumi) japanese knives are full carbon.

Kershaw makes some good knives and some really cheap knives eh

[SG-]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned full carbon knives.

Yes, they are soft and need frequent touching up (OK for geeks). Yes, they discolour, and you can't put them in the dishwasher (but then what knife geek would want to?). But no stainless steel, not even Damascus steel cuts like them...

Most of the traditional and non mainstream (ie Kershaw, Kasumi) japanese knives are full carbon.

Kershaw makes some good knives and some really cheap knives eh

I meant to say, non-mainstream in the US which excludes the kershaws and kasumi.

[CRUZMISL]

No chipping so far but I don't do any heavy chopping with it. Mainly veggies and stuff, no bones.

Joe

[ExtraMSG]

So, I'm considering getting a Hattori as a gift for someone. What's the best source? Ebay?

[CRUZMISL]

I got mine from Worldknives.com Chris is a gret guy and will do what it takes to make you happy. He also offers a 10 day return policy which is good especially if you haven't felt the knife in your own hand.

Joe

[oraklet]

The lack of a bolster is actually a plus. My Henckels were professionally hand sharpened but over time as you remove material the knife will develop a belly just before the bolster. This makes trying to chop something very annoying as the blade doesn't contact the board. You can't grind the bolster either because the blade is too thick at that point.

I never even notice it's gone and hold my knives the same.

Joe

actually, i don't agree about no-bolster being a plus. if you hold a no-bolster knife properly, you're more prone to develop some serious callouses(sp?) than with french/german knives. i've got a santoku, so i know!

the bottom of a german-style bolster may be filed off in a 45 degree angle to facilitate sharpening. the classic french knives like sabatier lion are made that way.

[AzRaeL]

So, I'm considering getting a Hattori as a gift for someone. What's the best source? Ebay?

what really sucks is that i come from a culture which believes that giving a knife as a gift is highly inauspicious.

i wish people would give me GOOD knives.

[AzRaeL]

I have had the Henckels Pro S before, the full series of all the different knives in the block. It looked really nice but never really used them all. I have since sold those and invested a handsome sum in these Hattori's from Japan. I now only use 3 knives. They are rockwell hardened to 60-62 and are made of a core of VG 10 layered with stainless steel which gives it the beautiful damascus look. They also have a western style handle. I don't particularly care for the Japanese style handles. As far as performance these knives are beyond reproach. They'll leave any of the top German manufacturrs in the dust. They literally cut like a laser. I'd definitely suggest looking into these but I only found 1 importer in the US. Here are some pics below.

the Hattori blades certainly leave even the Henckels in the dust.

However i'm just a poor boy (late 20s) just starting out on my own.

Maybe if the bank would allow loans to buy knives, then we're talking.

Curious, how much did those knives cost anyway?

[CRUZMISL]

I'm poor too but.....

The Chef's was $245, the paring $109 and the santoku was $150 or do. Not too bad IMO.

I bought my wife some Victorinox Forschners today one because they were on sale and two because I don't really want her using my knives. They feel just as sharp as my Hattori's but in use the Victo's feel like an axe. They require at least 2-3X's the pressure to get through a carrot. Unbeleivable.

Joe

[AzRaeL]

I'm poor too but.....

The Chef's was $245, the paring $109 and the santoku was $150 or do. Not too bad IMO.

I bought my wife some Victorinox Forschners today one because they were on sale and two because I don't really want her using my knives. They feel just as sharp as my Hattori's but in use the Victo's feel like an axe. They require at least 2-3X's the pressure to get through a carrot. Unbeleivable.

Joe

a man claiming to be poor but owning Hattori knives is like a Lexus owner griping that he can't afford a Aston Martin *LOL*

[CRUZMISL]

Good one :)

[bilrus]

Kershaw makes some good knives and some really cheap knives eh

I was looking at some of these today (the ones pictured about two thirds of the way up in this thread) - since this thread has made me want to look into the Japanese knives.

These are the only Japanese knives I have seen at the general equipment stores I looked at today - Kitchens Etc. and Chesapeake Kinfe and Tool.

What are the good ones they make and what are the cheap ones? These were selling for about $100 for the 10 inch chef's.

ALso what are the advantages / disadvantages to the one-sided edge vs. the more traditional two sided bevel?

And will the Japanese knives work as well (or better) for Chopping as the Western Knives (I currently have Henckels 4 star 10 inch chefs) or are them more suited for slicing?

Edited December 14, 2003 by bilrus (log)

[AzRaeL]

What are the good ones they make and what are the cheap ones? These were selling for about $100 for the 10 inch chef's.

ALso what are the advantages / disadvantages to the one-sided edge vs. the more traditional two sided bevel?

And will the Japanese knives work as well (or better) for Chopping as the Western Knives (I currently have Henckels 4 star 10 inch chefs) or are them more suited for slicing?

Let me take a Stab at answering this (har har har)

$100 for the 10" chef is pretty okay.

For a Chef's Knife: definitely go for a Forged blade (dropped forged is even better).

Other knives like a breadslicer, paring knife or fillet knife you can get away with Stamped.

Kai's good line: Shun (they also have a Damascus line)

cheap but reasonable: KaiCut

Cheapooooooo: Steeler

KAI is HUGE! they're like the Seiko of the knife world.

One sided edge: need a left handed knife if you're south pawed

you can get a keener more acute angle with one sided edge.

straighter cuts with one sided edge[?]

you can cut thinner slices cuz the other side is perfectly flat

advantage of two sided bevel....erm...dunno

is there? other than the fact that it's more common.