Beijing dining

[spaghetttti]

Hey Professor!

Hope you're enjoying your trip and having a great time. Looking forward to hearing about your excellent meals.

[bleudauvergne]

Thinking of you, Pan, Please take pictures!

Lucy

[mascarpone]

Were there any Korean influences in the cuisine of the region that you visited near the North Korean border?

[chengb02]

Were there any Korean influences in the cuisine of the region that you visited near the North Korean border?

In my experience in the Northeast, you will see far more Korean restaurants than you will see in other parts of China, especially anywhere south of Beijing, but that is about it. Cities on or close to the border, like Dandong, will have a large number of Korean or Korean-Chinese food restaurants and will have a lot more people that speak Korean, but the city is still a very Chinese city. In Jilin Province there the Yanbian Korean Minority Autonomous Prefecture (Koreans are 1 of China's 56 ethnic groups) where it is easier getting around speaking Korean than Chinese. While it is a part of China, going into the markets you will definitely see that these people still keep closely to their Korean heritage. However, this isn't really an "influence" as these people are ethnically Korean. I think the greatest influence you will see is culturally (as in pop culture), but that has nothing to do with North Korea. Actually, if you are looking for Korean influence, I think you're most likely to find it in the Wudaokou "neighborhood" of Beijing where, over the past few years, a sort of Korea town with a very large Korean expat and student population (in upwards of 35,000 I think was the figure) has begun to pop up.

[mascarpone]

Thanks, chengbO2 for a most interesting and informative reply!!! I will be intersted to hear Pan's "on location" report of this as well.

[Pan]

It was too difficult to reply "on location." Internet connections at hotels were really expensive and then my brother's laptop died (I may have lost a lot of photos I uploaded to his hard drive, but he'll try to recover them). I'll make detailed reports in separate threads, but I'll make some general comments here:

I was in Changchun for 3 nights, as it turned out. Unfortunately, I was too often stuck eating the mediocre steam-table food in the hotel, Nan Hu Binguan (South Lake Hotel), a beautiful but oppressive Communist government hotel. The Korean influence was shown by the fact that they served weak kimchi, not nearly as spicy as I like. Outside the hotel, though, I had perfectly good Beijing Duck in a large restaurant just west of the big public square that people fly kites from, which has a large high school and several sculptures on it and which is across from the old administrative building of the Japanese puppet state of Manchukuo. There isn't much reason for ordinary travellers to go to Changchun, but the people were particularly friendly and wonderful there.

Thanks in part to recommendations here and in part to instinct, observation, and luck, we ate very well in Beijing. I had possibly the best meal of my life at the Li Family Restaurant (thank you, Ed!!!), but most other meals were at least hearty and satisfying, sometimes more.

We made an unscheduled visit to Shanghai for 3 nights and except for one meal ate well there, too. Here, Frommer's China: The 50 Most Memorable Trips was helpful, but our most memorable meal - a really terrific one - was at a place that required some legwork to find - Old Shanghai Moon. Mind you, this restaurant is clearly famous among Shanghainese, but the way we found it was by calling a location listed in the above guidebook where they apparently used to be, but which is now a Spanish restaurant. They gave us the phone number and location of the new place, and we chose to go despite misplaced suspicion that the new location in a famous hotel could be a detriment to the quality of the food.

Edited August 28, 2004 by Pan (log)

[spaghetttti]

Welcome back, Michael

[Pan]

Thanks, Yetty. I'll post more reviews in time, including a review of the Li Family Restaurant with copious photos.

[Qing]

Pan,

You could just go to any Internet Cafe around the area, for their price is even can be accepted by high school students. Sometimes they would offer you some homemade snacks.

Novetel is located near WangFuJing street, am I right?

During the night, WangFuJing Food Fair has been famous for years. You have to try one time. The foods there are cheap, clean and taste great!

I think you can reach there by walk, because I was doing that all the time.

Good Luck, and have Fun!

[Pan]

Qing, I didn't see internet cafes in Beijing. I'm sure there were some around, but they clearly weren't as evident as they were in Kuala Lumpur. In Shanghai, I did happen upon an internet center close to the hotel I was staying at, but it hardly seemed a worthwhile use of my time to check email the day before I returned home.

Yes, the Novotel Peace is near Wangfujing. What food fair? Do you mean the night market or something else? I was underwhelmed with the night market but did enjoy two dumpling restaurants near there, both of which I plan on posting about in time.

[chengb02]

Qing, I didn't see internet cafes in Beijing. I'm sure there were some around, but they clearly weren't as evident as they were in Kuala Lumpur. In Shanghai, I did happen upon an internet center close to the hotel I was staying at, but it hardly seemed a worthwhile use of my time to check email the day before I returned home.

Internet cafes, for the most part, are a thing of the past in Beijing. They do exist, here and there (mostly around the universities), but since the fire a few years ago, the Beijing city government has cracked down on all internet cafes. The unlicensed ones, which were the most common, are gone and getting a license (even for those that were previously licensed) was made very difficult. The new thing is offering a wireless connection at cafes/coffeeshops a la Starbucks, but this is admittedly not within the price range of most people and is clearly designed for the affluent and foreigners (there are 2 or 3 of these places in Soho New City alone). Starbucks offers wireless, but not for free, and being able to use it requires an unbelievable amount of patience with CNC.

[jo-mel]

Looking forward to your experience at the Li Family Restaurant. I tried to get in there in 93, but couldn't. It was such a disappointment!

[kangarool]

Welcome back Pan! It sounds as if you had a great trip, and I'm anxiously awaiting your detailed report, as I fly to BJ this coming Friday (1 week in BJ before heading to Cambodia for another week). I especially look forward to the Li Family Restaurant review, as it was obviously a highlight of your trip. That, and any other recommendations of yours that I could track down while there would be hugely appreciated.

[Pan]

Where will you be staying in Beijing?

As for the Li Family Restaurant, I've uploaded the photos to my PC, but I think I'll need my family's help to remember some of the dishes, as I took no notes.

[hzrt8w]

... but I think I'll need my family's help to remember some of the dishes, as I took no notes.

If you post your pictures, we can probably help you remember the names.

[kangarool]

I'm staying at Bamboo Garden Hotel, near Bell and Drum Tower (I think? going from memory from what I read in guidebook). In Hutong area, if I'm not mistaken.

As for Li Family Restaurant dishes, I jumped the gun on your review, and googled it, to find a list of menus offered and dishes served, here. Judging from the menus, it looks like your enthusiasm isn't misplaced...

(edited to add link)

Edited August 30, 2004 by kangarool (log)

[Pan]

Yeah, I know that area. FYI, there are many hutongs. Hutong=alley. You are north of the Forbidden City and west of Beihai Park. Actually, you're close and probably walking distance from the Li Family Restaurant, so make reservations as soon as you can upon arriving. Surprisingly, though, we were able to make reservations for the next day. I'll check that site to see what's listed.

The Novotel Peace Hotel, where I stayed, is west of the Forbidden City and quite close to the pedestrian zone of Wangfujing St. We found a very good restaurant in that general vicinity but I don't think I'll be able to identify it unless the photos I took of it are recovered. Their card was in Chinese only, and I don't remember the address.

[chengb02]

I'm staying at Bamboo Garden Hotel, near Bell and Drum Tower (I think? going from memory from what I read in guidebook).  In Hutong area, if I'm not mistaken.

That area is where much of the (few) remaning hutongs are. It is also near to the popular qianhai/houhai/xihai area where there are a number of different restaurants (at the top of my list would be Gu Ma Cha Dao, an excellent Yunnan restaurant, and Xi Hai Yu Sheng for seafood).

For the most part, even for the most popular restaurants (with the big exception of QuanJuDe) reservations can be made a day or two ahead without any problem, maybe a few days more if you want to go on the weekend.

Edited August 30, 2004 by chengb02 (log)

[Qing]

The WangFuJing food fair is a night street fair. I have been there eight years ago.

I think they should be still there, for the government has no reasons to shut it down.

The street fair serves mostly snacks, and they varieties are from the west to east and from the north to south. The best part is the sanitation and price under very strict control, so that gives you the best environments to enjoy.

Kangarool:

Congratulations for your trip to Beijing!

There is no Beijing cuisine actually, because there gathers all of the best Chinese chefs among all cuisines.

I heard there is a new family restaurant chain called 九头鸟“The Nine Head Bird.” They serve Hubei food. Hubei province is located between Sichuan and Hunan, but the foods there were not famous as its neighbors’. I came from Wuhan, Hubei province, so I recommend you should try once there.

The foods at are very reasonable, for its target market is the middle-income families, and the flavors is rich but lighter than Sichuan or Hunan foods. My father just went to one of them last month, and he told me the “莲耦排骨汤Rib Soup with Lotus Roots” was great!

[kangarool]

I heard there is a new family restaurant chain called “The Nine Head Bird” so I recommend you should try once there.

Thank you, Qing, I will definitely attempt to find it and give it a try. I'm packing my digital camera, so will post some shots if I manage to locate the restaurant... thanks for the tip!

[Pan]

[Edit: I'm referring to Li Qun here, not Quan Ju De! Sorry for the confusion! Li Qun has one location that's hard for cab drivers to find but clearly on tour bus routes. Quan Ju De is a chain with a fair number of branches around town. In the end, we didn't go to either.]

We took a cab to the vicinity of Quan Ju De [Edit: That was Li Qun] (for which we made reservations the same day) and saw that an entire tour bus load of Americans was heading for it. We beat a quick retreat and headed to the restaurant a mile or so from the Novotel that we had spotted several times from cabs as attractive and full of customers. (We knew enough Putonghua to give the driver directions for how to get there.) The latter restaurant was indeed full of convivial Chinese customers, not a Westerner in sight, but they did have an English-language menu and the waitstaff were very helpful. We had two excellent meals there, including some terrific Beijing duck the first time. Perhaps my brother will remember the name of the street it's on, but that's not that helpful. I hope he is able to recover a set of pictures I took there, including one of their card.

Qing, I found the food at the night food fair (market, whatever) to be overly greasy. It was also disappointing to me that so many of the booths served exactly the same thing, and the fact that that thing was in many cases scorpions didn't impress me. Compared to the variety of delicious food at the night market in Kota Bharu, Malaysia, a way smaller city, it was nothing at all. As for sanitation, remember that raw vegetables are a danger because nightsoil (human waste) is used as fertilizer in China and visitors' immune systems are not used to the local bacteria. That combined with the uncertainty that everything is really cooked through (my vegetable dumplings were lukewarm and even after being returned and heated further they weren't exactly piping hot) constitutes a sanitation/health concern for visitors. As for price controls, they don't apply to the man who gave me a free sample, explained that something cost 3 RMB and then, when I ordered two portions (liange), gave me a quintuple portion that cost 15 RMB. I didn't care enough to attempt to argue - with my tenuous Putonghua - but didn't like such sharp trading practices.

Edited September 1, 2004 by Pan (log)

[chengb02]

Qing, I found the food at the night food fair (market, whatever) to be overly greasy. It was also disappointing to me that so many of the booths served exactly the same thing, and the fact that that thing was in many cases scorpions didn't impress me.

There are 2 "food streets" at Wangfujing. One is an all day variety that is located on the walking part of Wangfujing, about halfway down. Its very touristy and overpriced, but there are some decent offerings (okay, okay...I often have to be in the area and if I'm really starving I will buy a yangrou chuanr or 2 and a nan and have an impromptu "sandwich"). The other one only opens at night and is located on the same street ast the Novotel hotel, kitty corner to XinDongAn. Its a little better, but still touristy (come on, its Wangfujing, what do you expect?). Beijing night "stands" are best found in the hutong areas of Houhai or around the university. The one thing I DO like about Shanghai over Beijing is the number of places that after dark will just set up some tables and chairs on the street and serve food and beer all night. Beijing lacks this, perhaps it is due to the cold winters or something else (lack of space?).

[Qing]

Yes, I think so. Wang Fu Jing is a large commerical area for tourists, and I was there as a tourist and a student when I was 15, 1995.

I have no ideas what is going on there, but I am sure at that time, it was good for me...

Sometimes, memories are better than the tastes. Do you think so?

[Pan]

Sometimes, memories are better than the tastes. Do you think so?

Perhaps.

The food source I liked best on Wangfujing, though, was at the Beijing Shopping Centre (I think that was the name - the older shopping center with the clock on it). It looks like a normal department store until you approach the back of the ground floor and notice all the jade jewelry for sale (I can't understand what makes one item more than twice the price of another, as they look like the same color combination to me). But up a short flight of stairs all the way at the back is a shop where they sell all kinds of dried and preserved fruit, hundreds of sweets, nut brittle, meat jerky and sausage, traditional medicine (dried sea creatures are prominently displayed, and bear bile and very expensive ginseng roots are on sale), and chocolate. My brother or/and I went there just about every day we were in Beijing. I particularly recommend the sweets, many of which had unexpected filling (like the ones with coconut in the batter, filled with high-quality pineapple jam). Unexpected, of course, because I don't know how to ask what the filling is and even if I did, I wouldn't understand the answer.

chengb02, I found that there are places in Beijing that are open late, at least in the summertime, though I'm not sure how late. We stumbled upon an area where every restaurant was making crawfish with spicy red sauce and kebabs, for example, among other things. If you take a cab to the Asia Hotel and just walk south along the street, you'll see them. One of the restaurants is Muslim, and it seems like they're serving the same food (except for haram [forbidden by Islamic Law] stuff, of course) as all the other eateries on the block, all of which have sidewalk cafes as well as indoor areas. We had a tasty dinner at one, but man was the place smoky!

[Pan]

See my report on dinner at the Li Family Restaurant here.