Mix (with Doug Psaltis as chef de cuisine)

[Bux]

A savarin, if I'm not mistaken, is much like a baba but baked in a ring mold. It should also be soaked in rum or kirsch according to the Larousse. Perhaps a good case can be made that the difference between the two is that one is male and the other female.

Perhaps some clever restaurant would figure a way to serve them both together with appropriate table side plating.

[Fat Guy]

The savarin was soaked in something, but if it was rum there was very little of it and it was an extremely mild example. But it had the wet-soaked texture of a baba-au-rhum.

[Felonius]

It has been awhile, but I've had that baba-au-rhum at ADNY at least 3 or 4 times and I don't recall it ever being hot. Isn't it always served lukewarm, not to mention cooled a lot by the addition of the rum and the pastry cream?

The babas I've had at were at least warm and tasted like they just came out of the oven. Then again maybe they just microwaved mine a bit longer than yours.

[Fat Guy]

Or maybe it's that I'm such a slow eater, and stay there so late, the pastry chef says, "I'm leaving. Just give this cold one to the schmuck on table 12."

[Felonius]

Uh-oh, I think I might be about to lose my $12 bet.

I wouldn't worry about that. Even if I don't like it, you've given me a new pickup line to add to my arsenal.

"Hey hot baba, would you like to see my chiboust?"

[TrishCT]

Savarin just refers to the ring shaped pan the cake is baked in. Carry on...this thread is amusing to us outsiders....

[Fat Guy]

It occurs to me, why in the world doesn't Mix have a dessert sampler platter? The desserts are all so minimalist, this would be an ideal way to highlight their individual narrowly-focused excellence. Three small portions -- a dessert mix, as it were -- would be ideal.

[Bux]

This has very little to do with the content of the article per se, but doesn't ANYONE know how to spell prix-fixe???  What is this pre-fixe crap??? 

K

Edited to add that I wasn't trying to say that slkinsey had misspelled it...the Post article did!  Don't they have editors there????

Probably not, at least not as you'd define them. My turn. Don't they have restaurant reviewers there?

What they have are seasoned reporters who have just discovered the concept of supply and demand. Imagine that, some restaurants offer bargains at lunch. How long has this guy been covering restaurants in NY?

[slkinsey]

Savarin just refers to the ring shaped pan the cake is baked in.  Carry on...this thread is amusing to us outsiders....

And a savarin doesn't have raisins or currants, right?

[Fat Guy]

This definition would tend to support the distinctions both you and Trish are drawing. At the same time, if my memory is correct, the baba-au-rhum at ADNY doesn't have any raisins or currants in it. The problem with being me and talking about technical pastry issues is not just that I don't know anything, but also that classical definitions are rarely observed in contemporary restaurants. Nomenclature in pastry is complex already, but it also tends to be used impressionistically on menus.

[alacarte]

If Fat Guy dines at Mix often enough, he shall be dubbed "Sir Mix-A-Lot."

(I shall ever-so-tastefully omit reference to the Sir Mix-A-Lot classic about big butts. I live in a glass house and I can not lie. )

edit: clicking thru is not recommended for those with *delicate sensibilities*

Edited October 29, 2003 by alacarte (log)

[Harry Covére]

FG:

I too Mixed it up recently and agree with most of your assessment. I can't stress enough how softspoken and -- I dunno -- deceptively modest the menu is: simple approach, classic French technique, superb ingredients, superb execution. And I think it is this way solely because of the softspoken, deceptively modest guy working the pass every night: Psaltis is not a whimsical Keller or culture-humping Batali -- He's just Doug, a kid from Long Island who can paint that big yellow line between novelty and genius (although I think the restaurant as a whole tips the novelty scale), and curiousity and confusion without getting his brush dusty. Yes, Ducasse played a big role in planning the menu, but the great impresario is back in France (although Doug told me he flies in every couple of weeks to check in) and it's hard to run a kitchen (and Oh, what a kitchen! Get a tour!) from across the Atlantic.

Anyway, I'm the kind of Joe Diner who enjoys that blast of appreciation that comes hours after a meal is over, when you're lying in bed and realize why--

Wake up, Jackie!--the sonofabitch used lemon cream in the pot pie.

The only thing that made me whince was the wine list: anybody see this manifesto? The first three (out of four) sections (after wines by the glass) are devoted solely to France and subcategorized by organic, biodynamic (read: voodoo) and Ch.-du-Pape wines. Then comes "le monde", which is French for "we included a couple of California wines so you don't bitch when you can't recognize or pronounce anything else."

That poor, patient sommelier. What's he doing to himself?

So what did you think about the wines? Or did you leave the restaurant saying "Ah! Finally -- a restaurant that understands the rewards of planting cow horns under full moons!"

[Fat Guy]

I agree that Psaltis is connecting the dots and deserves a ton of credit for what he does, and there's no question he's a chef's chef -- I've done some hard time at his side at the other place and I know the guy is hardcore. But the food at Mix is unmistakeably Ducasse, for two reasons, one obvious and the other more subtle.

On an overt level, Ducasse is involved in every dish. Aside from maybe a daily special or two, he approves, modifies, tastes, re-tastes -- he is very involved in the menu at all levels, whether he or Psaltis invented the particular dish. Assuming for the sake of argument that half the dishes originated in Ducasse's brain and the other half originated in Psaltis's brain, that's just the first stage in the collaboration. By the time each dish is ready for prime time, it's a team effort.

On a deeper level, Psaltis is a true Ducasse protege. He's part of the Ducasse system. He's been eating, sleeping, dreaming, thinking Ducasse's styles and techniques and approaches for three-and-a-half years. If you talk to him, you can hear the Ducasse-speak and the Ducasse-think. Everything is "marmalade." At one point in our phone call I was like, "Dude, you're calling everything marmalade," and he was like, "Yeah, I'm thinking in terms of marmalade all the time -- it's a Ducasse thing." The point being, even when Psaltis invents a dish to be served at Mix, he is very much reflecting Ducasse and the Ducasse system.

And I don't mean to take anything away from Psaltis -- the guy is awe-inspiring as a chef. But credit, in my mind, goes to Ducasse for recognizing Psaltis's brilliance and virtuoso qualities, hiring him, cultivating him, and putting him at the helm of Mix.

In terms of the wine list, well, I didn't really find the biodynamic stuff bothersome. If a wine is good, it's good -- voodoo or no. It's an affectation, to be sure -- affectation is a word you can use a lot with respect to the sillier aspects of Mix. I know the wine list could be better, and it's overpriced in places, but I was fine with $50 for Condado de Haza. It's $20 retail at Morrell, so that's actually less than the standard New York fancy-restaurant markup. The stemware is gorgeous, wine storage for service is proper so the red wines are nice and cool (18 degrees C the sommelier told me, which comes out to 64.4 F according to Google). I can live with that.

[Felonius]

The only thing that made me whince was the wine list: anybody see this manifesto? The first three (out of four) sections (after wines by the glass) are devoted solely to France and subcategorized by organic, biodynamic (read: voodoo) and Ch.-du-Pape wines.  What's he doing to himself?

So what did you think about the wines? Or did you leave the restaurant saying "Ah! Finally -- a restaurant that understands the rewards of planting cow horns under full moons!"

I don't read my horoscope or chat with Dionne Warwick on the Psychic Friends Network. However, I believe that the "Biodynamique" thing, as crazy as it sounds, is yielding some incredible results. I thought it was all bullshit until I blind tasted some of these wines. Try the latest offerings from Leroy and Meo-Camuzet in Burgundy. The former is one of the first proponents of Biodynamie, the latter is a recent convert. Randall Grahm (who hosted an interesting forum here about a month ago) is now experimenting with these techniques. Chicken bones or not, they seem to be on to something.

Having said that, I think the wine list at Mix is somewhat uninteresting and certainly overpriced. But that's par for the course in NYC. Their description of biodynamic wines is poorly written and not informative in any meaningful way. Don't let that lead you to throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you're curious about it, do some blind tastings from producers who are heading down this road and judge for yourself. You might be as surprised as I was.

Edited October 30, 2003 by Felonius (log)

[Pan]

I have no idea what "biodynamic" wines are. Would you please start a thread on the Wine board about them?

[Felonius]

By the way, I tried to get a table or even a seat at the bar tonight at Mix. Not a chance in hell.

Grimes or no Grimes, they are doing just fine.

I ate at Cafe Boulud instead. Sweet shrimp with a Thai spice glaze, homemade angel hair pasta with cepes and white truffles, venison tenderloin with spatzle, roasted chestnuts, pickled cabbage, squash puree, and a grilled walu (sp?) in a tangerine demiglace (the best dish of the night). The shrimp and Walu were flown in from Hawaii this morning. Washed down with a glass of Jean Michel Gerin Cote-Rotie "Les Grandes Places" 2000.

Can't say I was sorry that Mix was booked.

Edited October 30, 2003 by Felonius (log)

[Felonius]

I have no idea what "biodynamic" wines are. Would you please start a thread on the Wine board about them?

Two things.

Pan, why are you up so late?

I will try to start a thread, but I'm no expert on Biodynamie. It's very complicated voodo type stuff.

[Bux]

The shrimp and Walu were flown in from Hawaii this morning.  Washed down with a glass of Jean Michel Gerin Cote-Rotie "Les Grandes Places" 2000.

That's pretty good stuff for washing fish and I don't care how far the fish traveled.

For all I've said in defense of Ducasse, I'm sure I'd find Cafe Boulud a better value. My appreciation of Fat Guy's post, is that he didn't do a "consumer reports" job, and that's good in my opinion. I think the value factor of any restaurant has to be noted in some way, but it shouldn't overwhelm the critique of the food which really deserves an abstract assessment. It's unfair and unreal to make analogies, let alone of restaurants to museums or galleries, but when I read a review of an artist's work, I don't expect all that much attention to be paid as to whether his latest work is overpriced or underpriced. I know that fine art at the museum quality level is well removed from consumer interests and that restaurants are best appreciated by those who consume the meals, but I think it's worth a moment to consider the food and the restaurant first and then to offer an opinion on value.

Pan -- "Biodynamic," often referred to as just "bio," is nothing more than the French word for what we call "organic." A "bio" food shop will be one that compares to a "health food" store here in NY. Obviously the word gets bandied around as much as "organic" does here. A loaf of bread in a shop may be referred to as bio because it's whole grain or because it's actually from organic flour. On the other hand, the French government, or the EU, may have actually passed some laws restriciting its use, but you get the picture. "Bio," like "organic" is an umbrella term covering a lot of serious scientific work and a bunch of cranks." We're still left separating the organic wheat from the organic chaff.

[Fat Guy]

I'm sure I'd find Cafe Boulud a better value

If we're talking about a subjective measure, I have no argument with your assumption. And I love Cafe Boulud, which I consider to be one of the most underrated and underappreciated restaurants in the whole country. But if we're looking at objective measures, I bet they cut in favor of Mix. Looking at restaurant food purely as a commodity and not as art, value in food is basically going to be an equation that looks at food and labor cost (kitchen labor, that is) and compares that to price. I would be willing to wager that Mix has a substantially higher food-and-labor cost as a percentage of its meal price than Cafe Boulud does. Other objective measures, like the value of table real estate, would also certainly cut in favor of Mix's $7 million renovation and soaring space versus Cafe Boulud's totally mediocre and unremarkable sunken-hotel-lobby space, not to mention the spacing of tables.

But of course you can't really make the comparison on an objective basis, because actually if you do make the comparison that way what you'll find is that the best values in town are probably the steakhouses because they tend to have the highest food cost percentages. Still, I find the statistics (even the hypothetical ones) to be helpful as a reference point since there is a consumer aspect to dining as well as an artistic one.

Cutting in Cafe Boulud's favor on the value front would of course be that it's an established restaurant. There aren't duds on the menu the way there are at a new restaurant, even at a good one like Mix. Service is going to be a lot smoother. The kitchen has reached its stride so the team can do improvisational cooking for customers who request it.

Certainly, from a chef perspective, Ducasse and Boulud are two of the top guys, and each has assembled a totally capable kitchen team and delegated day-to-day management to a great chef-de-cuisine and crew. So I think you get good value at Mix for $72 for three courses, and I think you get good value at Cafe Boulud for -- OH MY GOD WHAT AN AWFUL WEB SITE -- for the $66 that it would cost to order pate + venison + souffle as three courses. (Note also that Mix offers $48 and $58 dinner menus that give you plenty of food, as well as a good pre-theater deal and a $45 three-course lunch that's essentially the same as the $72 dinner.)

But in the end I think this all points to the utter cluelessness of the Ralph-Nader-lite approach in the Post review, which we haven't given enough attention to yet.

[Felonius]

Pan -- "Biodynamic," often referred to as just "bio," is nothing more than the French word for what we call "organic." A "bio" food shop will be one that compares to a "health food" store here in NY. Obviously the word gets bandied around as much as "organic" does here. A loaf of bread in a shop may be referred to as bio because it's whole grain or because it's actually from organic flour. On the other hand, the French government, or the EU, may have actually passed some laws restriciting its use, but you get the picture. "Bio," like "organic" is an umbrella term covering a lot of serious scientific work and a bunch of cranks." We're still left separating the organic wheat from the organic chaff.

This may be true for food/produce in France, but "biodynamique" has a different and much more specific meaning when describing winemaking. For a basic description of biodynamie, try this link....

http://www.wineanorak.com/biodynamic2.htm

This goes well beyond basic organic farming, and gets into some pretty groovy stuff. I thought it was all hocus pocus until I started tasting the results.

[Fat Guy]

I suspect the results are due simply to good and conscientious winemaking, and not to orienting the barrels in accordance with the Zodiac and related nonsense, but go ahead and start a thread on this, someone, please. And let's also not forget the proclivity of many top French chefs for mysticism, tarot, astrology, tea-leaf reading, and the like.

[Felonius]

I suspect the results are due simply to good and conscientious winemaking, and not to orienting the barrels in accordance with the Zodiac and related nonsense, but go ahead and start a thread on this, someone, please. And let's also not forget the proclivity of many top French chefs for mysticism, tarot, astrology, tea-leaf reading, and the like.

I just started a thread in the wine section. How do I post a link to another thread here?

[slkinsey]

I suspect the results are due simply to good and conscientious winemaking, and not to orienting the barrels in accordance with the Zodiac and related nonsense, but go ahead and start a thread on this, someone, please. And let's also not forget the proclivity of many top French chefs for mysticism, tarot, astrology, tea-leaf reading, and the like.

I just started a thread in the wine section. How do I post a link to another thread here?

Look here for the discussion on biodynamic wine.

[Felonius]

I suspect the results are due simply to good and conscientious winemaking, and not to orienting the barrels in accordance with the Zodiac and related nonsense, but go ahead and start a thread on this, someone, please. And let's also not forget the proclivity of many top French chefs for mysticism, tarot, astrology, tea-leaf reading, and the like.

I just started a thread in the wine section. How do I post a link to another thread here?

Look here for the discussion on biodynamic wine.

Thanks! Could you email me or tell me where I can learn how to post links to other eGullet threads?

(Sorry for going OT)

Edited October 30, 2003 by Felonius (log)

[Fat Guy]

Some corrections to various erroneous numbers I put forth above:

- The kitchen at ADNY has a brigade -- as in active cooks participating in the dinner service -- of 21

- The kitchen at Mix has a dinner brigade of 17