"Southern" Desserts

[zilla369]

I want to know more about sour mash. (No, the "leavings after Bourbon is made" doesn't explain everything to me.) Should I be posting on a board about liquor instead of here?

Well, let me try to explain without a full-blown tutorial on bourbon-making...

Obviously, bourbon, like all whiskies, begins with the fermentation of grains; sometimes trilogy of rye, wheat, and corn, sometimes just wheat and corn. In Kentucky, many of our high-end, small-batch or "boutique" bourbons are made via the "sour mash" method - in other words, (just as with "sourdough" bread) a culture is taken from the current batch and used to start the fermentation in the next batch.

The grains used in these specialized Kentucky bourbons are carefully cultivated; a lot of it is soft winter wheat and corn that are irrigated with water from limestone springs (by the way, that's the name of the restaurant: Limestone. Limestone spring water is also supposed to be responsible in part for the skeletal strength of ancient Kentucky thoroughbred bloodlines, so the name "Limestone" is supposed to evoke images of noble horses and good bourbon to those in the know.)

After the bourbon is fermented, the left over grain mixture is dried, we buy it, and grind it into flour, which is mixed with traditional flours to make anything from our house bread (baked off-site), to blinis on which to serve Kentucky spoonfish caviar, to the biscuits i make for the bourbon-berry napolean.

[FistFullaRoux]

Suggestion for the sweet potatoes. Make sweet gnocchi with them. With a caramelized fruit sauce, using whatever is in season.

I've seen meringues made with sweet potatoes or peanut butter that would lend themselves well as toppings for a basic dessert to dress it up. Peanut brittle would work for that as well.

Personally, when I think of classic "southern desserts", it's pie of some sort. Maybe try a different take on the individual fried fruit pie thing (ala Dolly Madison). Blackberries, figs, or sweet potato would make outstanding fillings for it. On a citrus sauce dressed plate (for a little acidity), garnished with a Steen's Cane Syrup caramel (Which you could add a little butter and salt to. Makes something with a taste reminiscent of toffee in a softer context).

[Toliver]

...i feel i must ask - what should i have done, when offered these responsibilites (that no one else was willing to take on?)?  Should i have refused, given that there are certainly people in town more qualified than me for this position?  We're a small kitchen - just 6 cooks, including the sous chef.  We'd already been hired.  Would any of you, given the same opportunity, have turned it down?  And, by the way, no one's referring to me as "pastry chef" - i put that in the title of my thread to try to communicate my nervousness at the responsibilities i've been assigned.  If anyone asks, i tell them i'm "doing desserts" at the new restaurant.  "Marsha's doing all our desserts," i heard Chef tell one of the culinary school instructors that came to dinner tonight.

Marsha, I'm sorry if I come across sounding like Miss Cleo meets Pollyana, but I believe that things happen for a reason. You were there, at that time and that place, when the Chef asked someone to step forward and "do desserts". You said "Yes" and are now on a new path in your life. That's Destiny with a big "D".

Are there others who are more qualified for the job? Of course, there are. But had they been meant to get the job, they would have been there with you in that meeting and would have said "Yes" to it before you did.

Should you have turned it down? Doesn't matter. You didn't. Start swimming.

As for being nervous, that's perfectly normal. Your confidence will come with each day as a "DD" ("Dessert Doer"...since they haven't given you the PC title yet ).

I can't think of a better way to get a rounded education on your way up to eventually becoming an executive-chef (or whatever you want to become in your career) than to work as an untitled Pastry Chef. You'll claim that title eventually.

I'm also "doing" the sweeping and the mopping 

Take solace in the fact that even though they aren't calling you "Pastry Chef", at least they aren't calling you "Janitor", either!

[mayapple]

I recently had a Banana Pudding made with homemade vanilla wafers, Myer's Rum, and white chocolate pudding. It was to die for, and still held on to an innate southern-ness.

[cjsadler]

Zilla,

I'm curious about your recipe for creme brulee (which you described as the 'best you've ever had'). Wanna share it?

[chefette]

Zilla, nothing personal here, but keep in mind, they are making you/having you do the floors that should tell you something. I would not have said no in your position either. But, keep in mind that you have an opportunity to learn here

What strikes me on this thread is that yes, there are two ways to look at this

1) Great opportunity for very young person just out of school, new restaurant, take it and run with it

2) hmmm

How can one explain explain that you actually sort of feel sorry for Zilla and others in your position. She was there she is new, she is cheap, who the hell really cares about desserts, no budget, let's get this place up and running. Later on what will they do with her. How much is she making, how many hours is she working, when push comes to shove will they support her? appreciate ger for stepping in and holding up the earth? When things get settled down will they hire a real PC at a higher salary who will just keep Zilla running doing a ton of work (dues) or even get rid of her in favor of their own person/people? ??????????

Maybe everything will work out great. Maybe I'll win the lottery. who knows.

Again Zilla, not rain on your parade per se, but please use these comments to position yourself either professionally or emotionally to make the best of what you are doing and leverage it.

If I understand correctly the chef who is opening this restaurant is a HUGE deal in the marketplace there. A local luminary. The fact that they/he is willing and able to drop pastry on a new hire is shocvking since one would expect that he would want to open on the strongest possible foot. Maybe he has complete faith in himself and his ability to get you to execute his concepts, maybe he just doesn't care about the last course. Either way, ...

Again, this does not mean that we are not happy about your new job, or that we are not supportive of you. This is people showing honest concern about you, the profession, your, and all of our futures. May we all do briiliantly in the foreseeable future.

Edited October 8, 2003 by chefette (log)

[zilla369]

Zilla,

I'm curious about your recipe for creme brulee (which you described as the 'best you've ever had').  Wanna share it?

Hm...working from memory here, since i'm home, but it's pretty simple.

48 egg yolks

8 whole eggs

3 lbs granulated sugar

8 qts heavy whipping cream

3 vanilla beans, split and scraped

whisk the egg yolks and eggs and sugar together

scald the cream with the vanilla beans

temper the cream into the egg mixture

rest for several hours or overnight.

Bake in ramekins in a hot water bath at maybe 275 or 300 F (convection oven) until only the center jiggles when shaken - don't allow any browning. 45 minutes at 350 in a conventional oven, perhaps.

Cover with granulated sugar, brown sugar or bourbon sugar, and shake off the excess.

I use a torch to carmelize the sugar, but you can conceivably do it under a salamander or broiler, i guess.

Of course, this makes about 60 (5 oz) servings, so...scale it for your own use!

I think the secret to this very simple recipe is that it doesn't involve cooking the eggs except in the oven.

[zilla369]

Zilla, nothing personal here, but keep in mind, they are making you/having you do the floors  that should tell you something.

Actually, all the cooks (3 line, 3 pantry) do the sweeping and mopping. I don't feel put upon by this requirement.

Secondly: alas, i'm not "very young"....i'm 40.

Maybe someday, perhaps even someday soon, i'll feel put-upon and used. But right now, i'm just grateful for the opportunity. The owners are two very fine chefs, one of whom has cooked at the James Beard house. But they are making a conscious effort to make this an "upscale casual" joint - entrees are almost all under $20. So i'm not surprised they decided to take on desserts themselves, rather than spend a lot on a pastry chef.

I'm not embarassed to reveal i'm making $9 an hour right now, and working about 50 hours a week. A big change from my soul-sucking $42K a year loan officer job, but...i'm a LOT happier than i was when i was a loan officer.

Everybody lighten up a little. This has turned into two threads - one about southern desserts and the development and presentation thereof, another about my being given these duties. Seems like there are some that wish me well and some that want me to be miserable because i'm being underpaid for a job i'm not qualified for.

[Pan]

After the bourbon is fermented, the left over grain mixture is dried, we buy it, and grind it into flour, which is mixed with traditional flours to make anything from our house bread (baked off-site), to blinis on which to serve Kentucky spoonfish caviar, to the biscuits i make for the bourbon-berry napolean.

That sounds neat. Thanks for the explanation.

Does the bread end up tasting much like sourdough bread?

[zilla369]

After the bourbon is fermented, the left over grain mixture is dried, we buy it, and grind it into flour, which is mixed with traditional flours to make anything from our house bread (baked off-site), to blinis on which to serve Kentucky spoonfish caviar, to the biscuits i make for the bourbon-berry napolean.

That sounds neat. Thanks for the explanation.

Does the bread end up tasting much like sourdough bread?

Nah. It tastes like hearty wheat bread, with a very subtle bourbon-y note.

[Michael Laiskonis]

The accidental pastry chef. I love it. I hope you're keeping careful notes -- this is something you should write about someday for a magazine, in order to let people know how the restaurant biz really works. And of course, as ridiculous as this employment selection technique is, in the end the restaurant is probably getting a more enthusiastic, conscientious, and useful pastry chef than it would have gotten by hiring an actual pastry graduate from one of the cooking schools.

First, just to be done with it, FG's initial comments should not be either taken personal by zilla, nor should any experienced pastry chefs take offense. In fact, I completely agree, and the circumstances here are not unlike my own humble beginnings...

We'll actually fast forward past my first couple of cooking jobs, because, while perhaps relevant even to this discussion, none of you will be interested in reading my boring, unabridged memoir...

So I land my first ever job in a restaurant, having previously worked for a bakery, caterer, gourmet shop, and wholesale bread/pastry operation. For some reason, I knew a restaurant was where I needed to be. While I had the pastry background, I didn't necessarily entertain thoughts of becoming a pastry chef, but rather wanted to prove myself as a blood-and-guts line cook, in hopes of becoming a chef like those of whom I was just starting to read about- from a Trotter or Bouley or Ripert, to a Robuchon or Blanc (Georges) or even Gagnaire. At this point, I had already considered school, both locally, and the CIA, but I was dirt poor, living paycheck to paycheck, and decided to follow the old chestnut, "Earn while you learn."

I didn't know a thing about the local restaurant scene, but I was smart enough to know that if I went to a small, just opened, chef-owned place, the potential for real education would be greater than if I got myself lost in some hotel or corporate restaurant situation. So I somehow found myself hired, part of a tiny staff, in a tiny, and I mean tiny, kitchen- the chef, his sous, the pantry guy, and a part time prep/expeditor. There literally was no room for anyone else! I was to replace the pantry guy, who would move up to the line (mind you, for the first six months, the chef and sous were the line). So I did the amuse, two salads, two apps, and plated the desserts, which were brought in from the outside. And our only ice cream was picked up at the market next door- Haagen Dazs Vanilla, which we served with the 'rustic apple tart' we bought. I think we may have made a coulis here and there, but for the most part, it was all purchased.

It only took about a month to get the station routine down cold. So with an extra half hour to kill before service, I'd started to knock out a tuile here, a sauce there, just because I felt like it. I'd begun to ask, "Why do we buy our crème brûlée? I can bake them off, and we can even play around with the flavor." And right around this time, having already devoured Charlie's first book, Andrew MacLauclan's book came out- it truly blew us away at the time. So I began taking on more of the dessert stuff; I was still more interested in tweaking the amuse stuff, or coming up with ideas for a new terrine or some other cold app, but I didn't feel as much confidence in suggesting those ideas to the chef (it wasn't until much, much later, as his sous, that I would end up kicking him out of the kitchen, as I thought I had things exactly the way I wanted!). Little by little, we phased out the wholesale items, and I became another "accidental" pastry chef.

Eight months into my first restaurant job, I was given the title, and even a printed dessert menu- up to that point, desserts were sold verbally. And while I was also responsible for my 'garmo' duties, I produced four or five plated desserts, from top to bottom, and we even procured a cheap home-use ice cream machine. But I still wanted to butcher the ducks, clean the fish, sear the foie, even blanch the asparagus. So my days got longer; I'd come in early enough to blow through my prep list, in order to make myself available to do whatever I could. Luckily, I worked for a chef who let me take a mile for every inch he gave, not because he was lazy or that he didn't care, but because, I felt, he trusted me, and perhaps saw some shimmer of potential. Sure, I made little money, and he certainly got two cooks for the price of one, but that restaurant became my "school," my "laboratory." And looking back, I suffered a lot of defeat and disasters, but his laid back mentoring set me on the path that I continue today. But again, at the time, I didn't see myself becoming a pastry chef. Sure, I enjoyed that aspect, and took an immense pride in what I did, but I needed more. I jumped ship into deeper waters.

A new restaurant had opened in town, unlike anything else at the time (or to this day, really), and doing food of the sort I had only seen in magazines and books. I had been in to eat and met the chef and GM. I realized I needed a kick in the pants, and this was my chance. I began my trial by fire as a line cook. Finally, I was really cooking, learning a ton, and as part of an elite staff. I was hungry for the discipline, the stress, the quest for perfection. And I got it there. It was there that I developed that internal knot that just feeds on that pressure, but is never satisfied. I loved it, but I also spent a lot of time looking at what was going on across the kitchen in the pastry area. I was amazed with the equipment, staff, and freedom the pastry chef had. I began fantasizing about what I could do with all of that at my disposal. I also think I missed something I had at my previous job (and even a couple jobs prior to that)- a sense of autonomy, the feeling that I had a certain amount of control. I was doing very well, and I knew there were opportunities to advance in this restaurant, but something told me I had to bail. And I eventually did, but back to my first restaurant, where I finally decided to see where I might take the pastry thing.

Although I took a step backward in terms of the resources available, and the level of intensity, the confidence I had gained made me realize that not only did I seek responsibilty and leadership (even if there really was no one to lead), let alone autonomy, but also that I needed that environment where I could figure out and truly refine whatever style or passion existed within me. So I started where I had left off, building on what knowledge I continued to accumulate. But the place was still too small to afford a pastry chef proper, so instead of working pantry, and because I gained a lot of experience at the other restaurant, I now doubled as the number two line cook. I was content to have my own little private corner of dessert creativity, but I was also butchering those ducks and making sauces. I was still paid shit, but I was in my own heaven.

I had just been to France for the first time, eating at Gagnaire and Arpege. I had gone to cook with my chef at the Beard House, and then ate myself silly in NY, where I had, to this day, the most amazing dish I'd ever eaten (Ripert's skate sauteed in goose fat, with fennel confit, porcini, and a squab reduction). And also at this time, the first reports of this cazy Adria fellow in Spain were just starting to surface in this country. This was the stuff I really wanted to be doing. The savory gods were calling me again. By this time I had forced myself into the sous chef position, all the while maintaining and executing the desserts. I was an animal. I can recall numerous occasions of juggling last minute sugar or tuile garnishes while cooking off my first apps of the evening, but not being able to crank up my oven, because I still had brûlées in there! Looking back, it's a wonder I just didn't sleep at the restaurant- well, I did, but only a few times! But my creativity with desserts could only be expressed so far. I had no space, no equipment, and still that little runt of an ice cream machine. And have I mentioned that the only freezer was in the basement? Of course, that meant dozens of trips up and down, for an ice cream or sorbet that managed to be incorporated into each plated dessert. So I had hit the ceiling, so to speak, with pastry, and thus continued to wreak havoc with the savory menu. Then one day I heard about a vacancy, a pastry chef position, at another restaurant in town.

Turns out the opening pastry chef of that big fish in our little pond, the restaurant where I had worked as a line cook, was leaving. Word was that the chef was willing to look anywhere for a replacement, even out-of-state. As much as I loved playing in the fire, I had always wondered what I could have done in that venue. Since I already had an 'in,' it was no problem throwing my hat into the ring and doing a try-out tasting. To my surprise, I got it. I was now a pastry chef. Full time. For real. With a staff. With money to spend. But most important, I didn't slow down. I continued on the pace I had been working, but now I could focus. Building upon the foundation I had begun with little to no resources, my 'style' and vision could now be fully realized and fleshed out. And in four years, that constant push and perserverance has paid off quite well, I think. I just have to keep raising the bar for myself, and I have to create higher and higher goals. I still feel the urge to jump on the line and flip a pan now and then, but I finally know that this is what I want to be doing, that the pastry realm is where I think I can do my best work. Also, though my management skills continue to evolve, I know that I need to do my own thing. I need to have that trust and autonomy and responsibility- the opportunity to run my own show. And for as far as I can see, the high-end restaurant environment is where it's at for me. I can't see myself in a big hotel, doing wholesale, or even in a corporate chef situation, though retail has begun to entice a little bit. I have yet to shake my physical and mental addiction to that daily energy and intensity. I know I may someday change my mind, but right now, that's where its at.

So zilla, it's awesome that you stepped up. You are young, or at least a fresh face in the business. Do whatever you can, learn whatever you can, wherever you can find it. You may not ever continue with pastry, or this opportunity may just open up doors you didn't even know about before. Don't get hung up on the title, but make sure your work is recognized. 'Cooking' and pastry are really the same thing. Trust your taste and your skills first. But you have to love it. You have to push yourself, and we can only hope your chef will allow you to do that. Be at once humble, because you are a bit green, but also be forceful- set some goals, and make sure the environment you are in will aid you in achieving those goals. If not, consider going elsewhere, whether it is as a prep cook, a line cook, or a pastry cook. In a way, I say, so what if the restaurant or the chef doesn't think enough of the dessert course to warrant seeking out someone more experienced? Be selfish. Use them, instead of having them use you.

And I sweep the floor, too. I still want to sweep the floor. Keep sweeping the floor. Clean floors are cool.

[mighty quinn]

southern junior league cookbooks are a wealth of recipes-- "charleston receipts" is my favorite (especially for punch recipes for 200 folks) you could deconstruct some tradtional desserts like red velvet cake or lemon meringue pie. coffee bread pudding is excellent during the fall and winter.

[zilla369]

Michael, thank you so much for that thoughtful and encouraging post. I'm glad to know i'm not completely off-base. A lot of your memories resonated with me, since you went into that first restaurant with the goal of being a line cook in at least the back of your mind.

I've been doing the same things (on somewhat of a smaller scale) - i.e., going in earlier than my shift starts (but not actually punching in until official start time, since i know they're worried about paying overtime), making tuilles and sauces without being told to, and picking the brains of the busy chef/owners as much as i dare. Busy as they are, they usually take my questions seriously and answer them thoughtfully, without ever seeming to think less of me for asking them.

Certainly i'm not worried about having any "title" just yet - it's far too early for that. And i think clean floors are cool, too. So is a clean workspace. And spotless plates - i'm the only person in the kitchen, as far as i can tell, that polishes the rims of a stack of plates for my station before service. No matter how good the dishwashers and dishwashing machine are, there are always pesky water spots that ruin (for me) the look of a presentation.

I believe i have one big advantage over the Michael Laiskonis of the early days. I have eGullet as a resource. Books and reading are great, but how great is it to come home at night and be able to ask a whole raft of experienced industry people what went wrong with this or that, or for help with ideas? It's a resource i plan to make the most of. So i'll keep posting whenever i have time, because it'd be a shame to let all this distilled knowledge go under-utilized. Thanks to everybody for their ideas so far.

Marsha Lynch

[Chad]

Okay, you don't have an ice cream maker yet, but when you get one how 'bout a riff on a Mint Julep gelatto, sorbet, glace type thing? Certainly Southern and would probably be damn tasty.

Other ideas, a whimsical take on the prototypical "congealed salad," usually made with Jello, whipped cream and fruit chunks. You could have a lot of fun turning that into an upmarket dessert.

And given that this is the 85th anniversary of the Moon Pie, you could do something really cool with graham cracker crusts, some sort of fluffy filling and chocolate. Might be fun.

You've got to get some sort of peach or blackberry cobbler on the menu, too. Always a staple of Southern cooking. Perhaps dress it up with some puff pastry and purees.

Interesting melon granitas? Honeydew, cantaloupe, that sort of thing.

Hmm, maybe a sweet tea sorbet/granita/gelatto type thing.

Just a couple of ideas. As you read them please keep in mind my grandmother's saying, "Nothing is completely useless; it can always serve as a bad example."

Chad

Edited October 9, 2003 by Chad (log)

[Chad]

Oh, by the way, congratulations! You'll be fabulous.

Chad

[tan319]

Michael,

What an awesome post!!!

Loved reading about how it all began, and it's really interesting how it ties in with Marsha's position at her new digs.

Marsha: It's so cool to read how you're jumping into it, getting to work before clock in time, doing stuff for you, developing your menu ideas, etc. I used to stay after I finished my stuff, when I was an assistant, just to soak up information, help out on some stuff my chef would be doing, like a dessert course for a Beard house event our restaurant. would be doing And I think chefs LOVE to see that people who work for them are interested enough in cooking to ask them questions. So many people cook to pay bills, it's not a bad living, etc.

Some of these books Michael mention, like the Andrew MacLauclan book (I think maybe he's talking about 'New Classic Dessert's) are great for idea's. Soaking up some of that stuff and trying them out can't hurt.

Also, if I can throw one out there, 'Sweet Season's', by Richard Leach, has some really good recipes for basic flavours, solid jumping off point's for various cream's, etc. It's a presentation heavy book, which any of us who are doing our own menu's and doing all of the production for it probably wouldn't have time for, but the individual component's still impress me. it's worth a look into.

Best of luck and I hope you enjoy being a "sweet-sider"!

[Mayhaw Man]

southern junior league cookbooks are  a wealth of recipes-- "charleston receipts" is my favorite (especially for punch recipes for 200 folks) you could deconstruct some tradtional desserts like red velvet cake or lemon meringue pie. coffee bread pudding is excellent during the fall and winter.

Good Point

Two other really good League nooks from the South with good desserts are:

Southern Sideboards-Jackson MS Jr. League

Cotton Country Collection- Monroe, LA Jr. League

The book from Monroe gets my vote as the best all round deep south/Delta cookbook ever printed. It has sold well over a million copies (it was printed in 1974) and keeps on going like the eveready bunny. Great pies, great cakes, great cookies. Available at Amazon.

[mckayinutah]

Just a side note of sorts.

Just saw an ad for Exec. Pastry Chef at the Seelbach Hilton in Louisville, the former employer of Zilla's new employers. I wonder where their pastry chef went. Hmmm.

McKay

[zilla369]

Just a side note of sorts.

Just saw an ad for Exec. Pastry Chef at the Seelbach Hilton in Louisville, the former employer of Zilla's new employers. I wonder where their pastry chef went. Hmmm.      

McKay

In the recent past they didn't have one. the Exec and CdC came up with the dessert menu, and the pantry executed them.

Apparently the Seelbach Hilton has decided to spend some money replacing them. They have already hired a new exec and are advertising for a new Chef de Cuisine and Pastry Chef.

[mckayinutah]

Zilla,

If that is the case, then they decided to eliminate the pastry chef position then reinstate it. They had an Exec Pastry chef, since I interviewed for it several years back, plus I know that they wanted to showcase her ( the Pastry chef) since she was the only Certified Exec. pastry chef in the state of Kentucky

McKay

[zilla369]

Zilla,

If that is the case, then they decided to eliminate the pastry chef position then reinstate it. They had an Exec Pastry chef, since I interviewed for it several years back, plus I know that they wanted to showcase her ( the Pastry chef) since she was the only Certified Exec. pastry chef in the state of Kentucky

McKay

I'm not exactly sure what we're getting at, here... is this just more of the same "beware, the evil overlords care not for pastry, and you will be pigeonholed and used and abused and then tossed aside like a used tissue" implication? Meh. I thought we tabled that for the time being.

Also, i don't know how many years ago it could possibly have been, but if anyone at the Seelbach was the "only certified exec. pastry chef in the state of Kentucky", it must have been twenty years ago or more. The university i just graduated from this weekend has at least four CEPCs on staff, including the director of the school, who's been there since the early 80's. And Sullivan's campus is less than 7 miles from the Seelbach.

[mckayinutah]

Zilla,

I must apologize if I offended you, for I meant no harm. My posting to state that I had seen an ad for pastry chef at the Seelbach was meant to show that usually once someone of stature ( Jim Gerhard ) leaves an establishment that is as popular as the Seelbach is, that others will follow ( especially management ) If they haven't had a pastry chef for sometime now, well I guess my posting has nothing to do with this then.

As far as the CEPC thing, I am only going by what I have read in the past. I know of the person you speak of at Sullivan, and I should have used my brain when I said that this PC at the Seelbach was the only one in the state. I aplogize for that.

Again, my post has nothing to do with the owners of where you work and their beliefs on pastry. It was simply meant to state that once some one good leaves, many may follow.

Good luck and take care,

McKay ( JASON McCARTHY )

[Steve Klc]

Well, Jason, what the Seelbach marketing folks might have been trying to convey is that they were the only fine dining restaurant in the state with a working CEPC. When I last visited Sullivan and ate a fine meal there, yes CEPC's were instructors but students made the desserts served in their dining room. Still, I wouldn't quibble too much over this. It may have been nothing more than the Seelbach trying to impress a potential pastry or baking assistant into taking the job there working under the CEPC.

Also, I do think it is interesting what you noticed about this Seelbach job posting--and its timing--and how the previous chef team without a pastry chef might contrast with a new management team set on hiring an actual pastry chef. Perhaps we can explore the implications of this on another thread--like pastry recognition or Sinclair's thread about her job search. But you have nothing to apologize for.

Let's keep this thread more on what zilla really wants to engage on--the desserts she's creating and Southern flavors and ideas and Bourbon, etc. The other points have already been made here and we have already moved that discussion elsewhere anyway.

[mckayinutah]

STEVE,

You are absolutely right. I , unfortunately, have a tendency of going off the subject which I shouldn't do. I guess I can relate very well with Wendy in her frustration with the lack of respect of pastry chefs and I tend to voice my opinion on that subject whenever I see I can pipe in, even if that is not the subject at hand.

Again, apologizes to all

Mckay ( JASON McCARTHY )

[Chad]

Let's keep this thread more on what zilla really wants to engage on--the desserts she's creating and Southern flavors and ideas and Bourbon, etc. The other points have already been made here and we have already moved that discussion elsewhere anyway.

I know I'm curious. What is our delightfully un-PC PC making these days? Any of the suggestions on this thread make the cut?

Chad