Making cannelés/canelés

[nightscotsman]

thanks for the report night.  Those sound excellent. 

Did you fill your molds to the top?  (Oddly, I've found sometimes, where I fill the molds to influences whether they rise or don't.)

How much would you say they shrank?

Did your second bach rise taller than the molds? 

I am looking foward to see where your experiments take you.  Also looking forward to finishing up finals, so I can give the recipe a try.

I filled the molds to within about 1/8 of an inch from the top. The first batch didn't rise at all during baking and shrank about 1/8 of an inch in height when done. The second batch rose to just above the rim and shrank back to the same height as the raw batter.

From my experiments with other recipes, it seems that the quantity of egg whites is the biggest factor in expansion and rise, so I think I might try a test using the ingredients and quantities in Paula's recipe for everything but the eggs, and use the 3 yolks and 1/2 a white from the Silverton recipe.

And kitwilliams: I also had some food processor leakage problems even with the regular sized batch, so I think I'll stick with the more common bowl and whisk method.

I chilled the batter for about 24-25 hours before baking. The second batch had an extra hour in the fridge, but I can't imagine such a short time making a big difference.

[Wolfert]

First, I want to thank you for testing the recipe. I really appreciate the thoughtful comments.

The recipe:

I worked very hard to copy Patissier Antoine's caneles. A few friends from the region agree that I have come close. His caneles are creamy on the inside and crusty on the outside. A hefty version of creme brulee comes to mind. Most Bordeaux bakeries make a similar version: the texture is the same; the flavoring varies with many using a little orange or orange blossom water instead of rum or along with teh rum.

One bakery, Le canelé Baillardran, (Spécialité de Bordeaux - http://www.canele.com/), is very commercial and has canele stands all over the city. I suspose you could say he is the starbucks of bordeaux.His version is breadier in texture and longer lasting. In fact, he is able to mail his caneles all over the world.

the shrinkage:

All the caneles I saw in Bordeaux shops and homes used the 3-ounce size mold and all baked to a tad shorter than the original mold. Personally, I didn't see this slight shrinkage as a problem since they are eaten out of hand. I can see where this would be a problem with a smaller mold.

shrinkage could be from not letting the batter rest long enough. I usually wait two days or freeze and defrost slowly. ON the other hand, I have noticed 1/4 inch shrinkage when I use some of my molds. I have two types of copper molds: 12 purchased in Bordeaux; another 8 from jbprince. I've examined them carefully and have noticed that the ones from Bordeaux are a bit narrower. i.e. more elegant. The ones from jbprince have an ever so slight flare at the top. The caneles baked in the narrow molds don't seem to rise as much as those baked in the other molds. Can anyone explain this to me?

(Www.culinarion.com sells the Bordeaux canele molds.) I suspose there is a patent on the bordeaux style molds, or why else do they do this?

THanks to Kit , I purchased the silicon flex molds from Bridges. I have tried the gastroflex and du bayer and found them worthless. Due to the heftier weight of these new ones from Bridges, I produced a very acceptable canele, albeit some strange striping along the crevices. There was little shrinkage.

food processor:

Antoine uses a huge mixer to combine his batter, so I just followed suit with my food processor.. I think it efficiently combines the flour and butter, then quickly works in the eggs, etc etc ..Homemakers in Bordeaux do it all by hand.

Again, thank you so much for trying out my recipe.

"The canelé is an artisanal product, so sometimes it doesn't

come out perfectly," ----Antoine, Patissier of Bordeaux

Edited June 18, 2003 by Wolfert (log)

[jeffG]

I have joined this site because of my renewed interest in Canneles.

Years ago, with my now wife we first had these canneles at Dean and Deluca in New york at the bakery counter, they were from Bouley bakery. This was truly love at first bite which prompted buying 6 copper molds and researching recipes on the net. I was pretty successful, if a bit inconsistent with the results. The taste and texture were always right on, but the shape would sometimes, often more time than not be altered by the accumlation of melted butter in the bottom creating a pocket and disfiguring these otherwise perfect creatures. The molds were a bit hard to clean too. At any rate I quit baking them as well as others here. Recently I decided to give it another shot, this time using a hint a fellow baker gave me about using beeswax to coat the molds as they did in France. Low and behold with the new search query: cannele/beeswax, I find all these other links talking the two up. Next mission, Though we now live in another country, I was able to find 'cera de abejas' at a craft shop nearby, They thought I was loco, because I wasn't making soap or candles. End of story, Glad I found this site of "fellow Cannellers" At one time you could talk about these as if you'd traveled to far off places and found gold, because nobody knew of them. Even better if you made them. Will post results good or bad.

Until then, Ciao,

jeff

Edited June 18, 2003 by jeffG (log)

[Wolfert]

[

I forgot to think about the fact that I would be putting so much milk into the food processor and, of course, it leaked a bit!  That's what I get for being greedy! 

Kim: I've done that. Only once! Try adding half the milk then quickly pour egg-flour-milk through a strainer into a bowl. Reheat the rest of the milk for a second and add stirring.

Edited June 18, 2003 by Wolfert (log)

[nightscotsman]

I have joined this site because of my renewed interest in Canneles.

Welcome jeffG! Glad you found our little group of obsessives.

Let us know if you have any questions, and be sure check out the rest of the forums for other great food topics.

[aprilmei]

I've been baking a lot of canneles lately and have tried three recipes in the past week (Paula Wolfert's from the last cannele thread), Herme's from La Patisserie de Pierre Herme, and Bau's chocolate canneles. The only other recipe I tried previously (Nancy Silverton's) were baked in a silicon sheet of petits four size canneles. I've been trying out this week's recipes in full-size cannele molds made of tin (I think). I gave the molds an initial wash, dried them in the oven, and seasoned them by brushing thoroughly with melted Crisco and heating them in the oven for an hour. I then poured out the excess fat and inverted the molds and let them continue to season in the oven for about 15 minutes. Before baking, I brushed the molds again with melted Crisco then chilled them in the freezer before pouring in the rested batter. They were all baked in a convection oven.

After the canneles were baked, I could not get them out of the molds - they were stuck in places. Once I was finally able to pry them out of the molds, they tasted fine and were not underbaked in the centre but of course they didn't look good. After I baked each recipe, I had to soak the molds in hot water to soften the parts that had stuck, then re-washed and re-seasoned them.

Can anybody please tell me what I'm doing wrong? Am I using the wrong fat? Should I switch to a regular oil instead of Crisco? I know the last thread recommended beeswax along with the fat, but I thought the beeswax was to give the canneles a better crust, not to facilitate their removal from the molds?

Or is it the metal? I know that copper is the traditional metal for cannele molds - I'm using tin, is that why the canneles are sticking? The traditional molds - are they tin-lined copper or pure copper?

I'm also having the same problem Nightscotsman had - the canneles keep rising up out of the molds. You'd think that if they're able to do that, they wouldn't be stuck at the edges, but they are.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Wolfert]

I've never made canneles in a tin mold but I am sure that is one of the reasons your cakes are not easily dropping out after an initial banging on the crown against some very hard surface. With copper you get the quick hot to cold reaction which helps release the cannele.

Bee's wax mixed with melted butter and some tasteless oil until it becomes a thick cream is the way to go. You will never have a failure.

Don't worry about the canneles popping out of the molds they will while still in the oven fall back into place and actually shink a tiny bit. This is correct. The creamy custard filling needs a full 2 hours in a regular oven and 1 1/4 hours in a convection oven.

There is a silicone mold available at fred bridge (check my website recipe for the order number) you still need the bee's wax but it works quite well.

Hope this helps.

Paula

[rickster]

Wll, I've got to admit I'm having the same problem as aprilmei. I'm using Paula's recipe (which tastes delicious), 10 seasoned tin lined copper molds from JB Prince, greasing them with a mixture of beeswax and canola oil, baking them in a convection oven for the required amount of time, and they're still sticking, every single one. They are generally sticking at the "shoulder " of the molds. Am I not using enough grease at the bottom? Currently, it's bubbling up and out of the molds and onto the baking sheet.

[Wolfert]

Hi Rickster:

I really want to empasize how important it is to grasp the baked cannele in your mitted hand and bang it crown side down onto a really hard surface then it should just come out. Have you tried using a bamboo skewer to loosen them?

Are the molds relatively clean inside? You can put the seasoned cannele molds into a moderate oven for an hour then rub off the hardened debris.

Other thoughts: bubbling over doesn't sound right. Bubbling up is ok.

I'm wondering if you should grease the molds, turn them over, place them on a rack over a baking sheet, slip them into a medium oven for 5 minutes, let them drain before setting them in the freezer. This process removes excess beeswax coating. You only need the a thin veil of bee's wax.

Please let me know if you still have problems.

Edited September 28, 2003 by Wolfert (log)

[rickster]

Tried the skewer (metal), didn't work. I'm probably not banging them hard enough for sure. The wax bubbling over is a result of putting an extra thick coating inside in response to the first failure to get them out.

Thanks for your advice, I'll try them again.

[aprilmei]

Hi Paula, thanks for your advice.

You're right that the canneles settle back down into the molds but they don't do it quickly enough and the colour isn't even on the parts that aren't coming in contact with any metal. The tops are pale - not just the fluted edges, but the centre as well. I tried putting them under the broiler as you advised in the last thread but it only browned the edges.

Also, do the copper molds come in both copper and tin-lined copper? Rickster mentions that his are tin-lined but from looking at websites, it also seems that pure copper molds are also available (at least the picture makes them look like they're pure copper). Is there an advantage of one over the other?

[Wolfert]

I have tin lined copper which I purchased from www.culinarion.com when the euro was not as strong as it is right now.

If you go back to my recipe on the website you can find the silicone molds style number, etc . To tell you the truth the aluminum ones should be used for storing thumbtacks or making aspic appetizers. I'm sorry to tell you but I've never met anyone who has had luck with the aluminum ones using a proper recipe.

[aprilmei]

Hi Paula,

thanks for this info - will order the copper molds as you advised, and also some beeswax (these products aren't available anywhere in Hong Kong). I checked culinarion.com and the molds are 9 euros each, JB Prince sells them for US$8.20 and meilleurduchef.com seems the least expensive at 7.34 euros minus 19.6 per cent for orders out of the EU.

[aprilmei]

Just checked bridgekitchenware.com - they sell the molds for $16.95!!! Ouch!

[Wolfert]

check with culinarion about the eu discount. I think it will end up being competitive with mdc. Be sure to get the largest size. JP Prince's cannele molds are a wee big fatter than the ones from Culinarion. Please don't ask me why. If the reduced eu price is the same between meilleur du chef and culinarion. I'd go for the latter since they are sleeker when baked.

Fred Bridge also sells the rubberized sheets for about $16 so you can make 8 canneles. It works well.

[aprilmei]

Okay Paula, I'm temporarily giving up the search for the best cannele recipe - will wait until I get the right copper molds and some beeswax. Thanks for the advice.

btw, loved your recipe - they're not too sweet. Noticed that your batter was looser than the others, especially compared to Bau's chocolate recipe which was fairly thick.

[Louisa Chu]

I asked our cannele expert at the Plaza Athenee about the cannele problems and here's what he offered. If using flexipans, beeswax is not needed - it's for unmolding only, not the crust. If using metal molds - he says they don't need to be copper - they should be hot, so the beeswax does not block too quickly - then two thin layers applied. All batter ingredient temperatures should be respected carefully - and the batter should not be overworked - that's what typically causes them to rise up too much. And the molds should be well spaced - 10, max 12 to a baking sheet - to allow thorough baking. And unmold hot.

Hope this helps!

[Wolfert]

Loufood: Your comments via the French chef were very interesting.

I asked our cannele expert at the Plaza Athenee about the cannele problems and here's what he offered. If using flexipans, beeswax is not needed - it's for unmolding only, not the crust.

Up until I tried SweetWilliam's version in an earlier forum I would have agreed with your expert. A thin brushing of the "white oil" gives the flexipan baked cannele a fabulous crust. By the way, I tried 3 different flexipans and only the one SweetWilliam suggested made good cannele..(the one from Bridges).

If using metal molds - he says they don't need to be copper - they should be hot, so the beeswax does not block too quickly - then two thin layers applied.

There are many ways to make canneles and get great results. I am not familiar with adding white oil (beeswax melted with butter and oil) to hot molds. I brush room temperature molds with the white oil, turn them upside down on a rack over a foil lined sheet, slip them into a warm oven for a few minutes to remove excess oil, cool and set in the freezer untl ready to bake.

All batter ingredient temperatures should be respected carefully - and the batter should not be overworked - that's what typically causes them to rise up too much.

Right about not overworking the batter. Actually, canneles are at that best when the batter has rested 2 days.

And the molds should be well spaced - 10, max 12 to a baking sheet - to allow thorough baking. And unmold hot.

Now this I agree with 100 %

Aprilme: the copper molds are lined with tin. To remove debris put them in a hot oven and let it burn off. Don't ever wash them after the first seasoning..Oh, maybe once a year. The more you use your seasoned molds the easier they come out.

[MsRamsey]

Paula, I can't find the cannele recipe on your website. Please help?

[Wolfert]

I had put the recipe up for the readers of the original cannele forum on egullet. Now that the book has been released, my publishers gently suggested I remove it from the site.

check your email: I sent you the recipe.

[kitwilliams]

Loufood: Your comments via the French chef were very interesting.

I asked our cannele expert at the Plaza Athenee about the cannele problems and here's what he offered. If using flexipans, beeswax is not needed - it's for unmolding only, not the crust.

Up until I tried SweetWilliam's version in an earlier forum I would have agreed with your expert. A thin brushing of the "white oil" gives the flexipan baked cannele a fabulous crust. By the way, I tried 3 different flexipans and only the one SweetWilliam suggested made good cannele..(the one from Bridges).

I am in total agreement with Paula on this: the beeswax DOES make a difference in the crust of the canneles when using the flexipans, in both texture and glossy finish. They are a beautiful sight to behold. Wish I had a scanner, as a photographer friend of mine took some terrific photos of a batch I made this summer. And Paula's recipe is, by far, the best I've tried. The contrast between the exterior/interior, crusty to custardy, is awesome and, I'm sure (as I've never had canneles in France), as close to the original as I can imagine. Although I must get a larger food processor as I can't bear to make small batches of them!

kit

aka "sweetwms"

[Louisa Chu]

Paula, they were the chef's comments - just via me! I've not made them yet - I've just eaten them here in France!

[Wolfert]

Kim: thanks for the compliment. I really am proud of the canneles and as you know no one makes a recipe like that alone. You were very helpful with that little tip and I want to thank you again.

By the way, when I double I just mix the butter, flour and sugar in a mixing bowl, add the eggs, etc. The fine strainer does the real work. Let me know what you think.

Loufood: I've had canneles in Paris and in Bordeaux. Except for poujardin (spelling is off) I don't think there is a great cannele in Paris. The secret which I learned from a Bordeaux Patissier and president of the confrerie de patissiers is in the mixing of butter with the flour NOT adding the butter to the milk..

[kitwilliams]

Kim: thanks for the compliment. I really am proud of the canneles and as you know no one makes a recipe like that alone. You were very helpful with that little tip and I want to thank you again.

By the way, when I double I just mix the butter, flour and sugar in a mixing bowl, add the eggs, etc.  The fine strainer does the real work. Let me know what you think.

Paula: You are welcome for that little tip! I can't take much credit as I simply couldn't afford to buy the copper, happened to be in New York where Bridge was on the top of my list of tourist destinations and, fortunately, they had the best silicon molds!

And thanks back at ya for the tip on doubling the recipe. I think I'll give it a whirl right now! Except for the fact that I am engrossed in a fabulous new cookbook, The Slow Mediterranean Kitchen. Have you heard of it?

Edited October 9, 2003 by kitwilliams (log)

[Wolfert]

I would ask you repeat that last line but I'm blushing..Thank you.

Aren't the photos beautiful? Christopher Hirsheimer did the photography. She (yes, Christopher is a she) did all the major work for Saveur Magazine.