Q&A -- Straining, defatting and reducing Unit 3

[Marlene]

The stock came off this morning. I woke up to a wonderful smell. (I can only hope the aroma lasts long enough for our house showing at noon today ).

I forgot to take pictures of it in the pot, (hey, I hadn't had coffee yet) but here it is after being strained through 2 layers of cheesecloth:

I ended up with 2 pots and a small serving bowl. Already the fat is starting to collect on the top.

This gives a better indication of it's clarity. It looks rather like chicken stock at the moment!

It's very cold out, so the pots have gone outside to cool. Reduction will take place either tomorrow or Monday!

[snowangel]

Make sure and bring the pots in if it is going to snow! Made that mistake once, and had to do another round of reducing.

[Marlene]

I've got the lids on, but yes. At this temp, I should be able to bring the pots in within an hour I think, hopefully before they get buried!

[Safran]

Looks good Marlene!

[Rachel Perlow]

That depends on the type of pot lid. If you have the kind where the edge of the lid curves in and rests inside the pot (i.e. in RevereWare), snow or rain will work it's way in. If it is a flat edged lid that rests on top of the pot (All Clad, ChefMate, Le Creuset), that keeps the weather out pretty well.

[Marlene]

Hmmm. One is All Clad and one isn't. So I'll keep an eye on them!

[snowangel]

I made some stock the other day (a small amount of shrimp) and some chicken stock. After reducing them, I stuck them out on the deck to cool. Sort of was too lazy -- no, make that too busy -- to take care of them.

Here's what they looked like this morning:

The lid on that Farberware pan is remarkably tight. I've also used cookie sheets (with a weight on top of the sheet) as lids.

[Marlene]

Snowangel, that tip for getting the stock cubes out of the trays was golden. Just remember not to leave them too long or the bottom of the cube gets kinda mushy!

I'm in the process of reducing the pork stock now. I'll post all the rest of the pictures when I'm done. One thing I found very different than the other two batches of stock was that this morning, when I went to de fat the stock, the stock underneath was pure jelly. In the other two stocks this did not happen. I used the same pots, and left them in the fridge for the same about of time I left the other two. This made it much more difficult to skim off the fat, as it stuck to the jelly and as a result, i had to keep a much closer eye on the stock while it was heating in order to be sure I got all the fat pieces.

[snowangel]

When my stock is really jellied, I sometimes find it easier to de-fat it when it is frozen. Just scrape the frozen fat off with a grapefruit spoon.

My chicken stock is usually this jellied if I add chicken feet.

[Marlene]

The reduction is done. Here are the pictures from the final part of the process:

Right out of the fridge with the fat on top:

Jelly underneath!

At final reduction:

I intentionally reduced this more than my other two stocks. I was looking to see how much more the flavour intensifies the further one reduces. I had found when I reconstituted a cube of beef stock the other day, that I needed two to get the flavour I was looking for.

What I got was a stock reduction much more complex that the previous two I'd done. This is an incredibly rich stock reduction. I think I'm going to be very pleased with this. I ended up with 3 ice cube trays and a small cupful.

Now that I've made three batches of stock more or less back to back, I'm getting pretty comfortable with the process. I found it a lot easier to gauge this one in terms of looks and taste for what I wanted.

I also find it a very relaxing thing to do. There's no hurry to the process and it's a great thing to do when it's cold and snowy outside. I haven't found it particularly messy, and I can do a lot of other things while it simmers, and then reduces.

Thanks to everyone for their help! I am now officially in love with making stock. A la Miss Scarlett: As God is my witness, I shall never buy store made stock again.

[fifi]

Marlene, that last batch looks particularly lovely. I made a batch of beef last weekend, taking advantage of our unseasonably low temps to chill it on the balcony overnight to remove the fat. I would normally have reduced it to glace de viande but I lost patience and got it to about 2:1 before I gave up and put it up into jars for the freezer. My thinking on this is that I can reduce to a glace in smaller amounts relatively quickly if I want that for some veggies or whatever. Now I am wondering about the wisdom of that approach. I have limited freezer space in this apartment fridge upper freezer. Hmmm . . . Mother always said "Patience is a virtue."

They had mushrooms on sale at the local HEB. Maybe I will use up a couple of the larger jars for some mushroom soup.

[Shalmanese]

I've heard many restaurant personalities say that to properly reduce from a stock to a glace de viande, you need to slowly simmer, But is this really neccesary? You've got rid of all the fat, you've got rid of all the protein, what could possibly go wrong if you boiled your stock? Personally, I've tried both ways and I haven't found much difference except one being 10x faster than the other.

[Marlene]

I made beef stock again today. I did a couple of things differently than I did last time.

I used celery this time, I didn't before. I still don't have this whole ratio thing down, being mathmatically challenged, but this is what I used for a 24 quart stock pot with about 10 pounds of bones.

I ended up with about 12 quarts of stock.

I also picked up 3 beef marrow bones. Now, I'm told that beef marrow bones aren't all that good for stock, but these were reasonably meaty. I used them along with several meaty beef shanks and some oxtails.

Now here's the strange thing. There is a definate difference in colour between the first batch of beef stock and this one. I'm wondering why?

I roasted and simmered for more or less the same time I think. I did use a little less water this time than I did last time though.

Today's batch:

The first batch

I had at first thought when I took this batch off the stove and strained it, that it was darker than the first. In seeing the pictures side by side, I realized it was the opposite.

So does the difference in colour mean a difference in flavour? When I reduce this, is it going to be richer or less robust than the first batch?

[snowangel]

I would think that the stock with the marrow would be richer. But, I've been wrong on more than one account!

[Safran]

So does the difference in colour mean a difference in flavour?  When I reduce this, is it going to be richer or less robust than the first batch?

←

Marlene, taste it. Does it taste like last time? You could play with the reduction...reduce more, tasting the whole time.

[Marlene]

It's hard to remember from last time! But this did taste slightly "fuller" I do want to reduce this more this time, and I shall taste as I go when get to that stage, likely on Friday.

[gourmande]

I hope this has not been discussed elsewhere - I did go through the tutorial and Q&A threads but may have missed it... I do appologize if I did.

Any thoughts on the value (or not) of pressing every last ounce of life out of the veg through a sieve or mill before the final strain?

Lise

[fiftydollars]

I prefer not to press the solids at all and instead just let the liquid drain gently. I think pressing forces impurities through the sieve and releases small particles that will cloud your stock where they will be difficult to strain out later.

[FaustianBargain]

I used celery this time, I didn't before.  I still don't have this whole ratio thing down, being mathmatically challenged, but this is what I used for a 24 quart stock pot with about 10 pounds of bones.

bones:mirepoix:water > 5:1:5 >approx.

mirepoix: onion: carrot: celery > 2:1:1

I'd reduce the celery even more as even a little is very strong.

Now here's the strange thing.  There is a definate difference in colour between the first batch of beef stock and this one.  I'm wondering why? 

The colour depends on how long you roasted your bones. More reduction=darker the colour.

So does the difference in colour mean a difference in flavour?  When I reduce this, is it going to be richer or less robust than the first batch?

Hmm. Difference in colour defintely means a difference in flavour. Did you taste it?

When you reduce it, its going to be the same. Once again, you'll know when to stop reducing if you keep tasting it.

However, remember that if you dilute your reduced stock, the dilution wont 'bring back' the flavours that existed before reduced.

Taste it. There is no other way to check.

[Richard Kilgore]

Mystery to me.

I made the brown beef stock last weekend. I have made various chicken stocks for years, but never beef.

It did not gel after reduction. What does that mean and what could cause that? The only thing I did out of sync was de-fatting. For some reason I forgot to do it before reducing. After reducing and refrigeratrion, I good layer of fat came to the surface, but it was liquid.

[Richard Kilgore]

Anyone have an idea what happened?

[fifi]

A few years ago, I made a batch of chicken stockk that never gelled. I never figured that one out either. It tasted fine, just no gel. It is enough to drive an SSB nuts. Help!

[Marlene]

Of the three stocks I made, one gelled the other two didn't. I have no clue why.

[ghost]

Is there a general ratio for mirepoix to water to bones? I know any such ratio would be rough, but when at the store, buying some ingredients, it'd be useful to know.

[Marlene]

Now that I've gone through most of my reserves of stock, and the weather is turning cooler, it's time to make stock again. I'll be doing beef stock this weekend, and I think I've got that mostly down now.

However, I do have a couple of questions.

Question #1:

I'm using a gas cooktop now instead of a ceramic one. In the past, I've let the stock simmer overnight on the stove. Is it still safe to do this with gas cooktop? Or should I revise my plan and let it simmer all day instead.

Question #2

With Thanksgiving coming, I'll probably want turkey stock and i've never made it before. (ok, maybe there are several sub questions here).

(a) Can I use turkey and chicken stock interchangably?

(b) Is turkey stock more flavourful or stronger than chicken stock?

© what bones/meat do I use for turkey stock

(d) should I roast the bones first?

Hmm, I think that might be it for now, but I'm sure I can think up more questions!