Reflets de France

[skchai]

Just returned from a week in Paris and Aix-en-Provence. Unfortunately not much of an eating report to provide. Two small kids meant that dinner more often than not was in the hotel room.

But this meant that we had to venture out to the "hypermarche" quite a bit, and one thing that caught my eye was the ubiquity of the Reflets de France brand. Apparently this is Carrefour's house brand of regional gastronomic products - all have allegedly been vetted personally by Joel Robuchon, who I guess has become quite a man of the people, what with his cooking show and Atelier. Each product is produced by subcontractors in the region of origin who are supposed to use traditional recipes and incorporate AOC ingredients where applicable. The brand is sold by Carrefour but also by other retailers as well.

One thing I noticed was that these are REALLY cheap. Brioche tressée vendéenne for a couple bucks, pâté de campagne breton for about 2.50, if I recall correctly. While they tasted good to my uneducated taste buds, I was wondering if august members of this group had a different opinion.

And, perhaps more importantly, how do people perceive Reflets de France as a symptom of social change? Does it reflect a growing awareness among consumers of the need to preserve regional cuisines and support local producers? Or does it simply reflect the disappearance of specialized retailers to sell these regional products and the need for a mass marketer to take their place?

[Bux]

Those are interesting questions. I don't have an answer to any of them. As far as quality goes, I recall looking at the brand and thinking it was an interesting concept, but when selecting Breton butter cookies to carry in the car for whan I craved a sweet snack, I relied one of the local Breton brands I knew were of high quality. There's not much to be saved when buying a package or two of cookies a week over the course of a short vacation. I doubt these products are filling a complete void or that they're responding to an overwhelming demand in the marketplace, but I suspect it's a marketing effort that may be based on a perceived consumer need or interest. On the other hand, I'm sure there's more than a bit of promoting the idea that a consumer can depend on one brand for all these specialties.

The questions I'd have are along the lines of who's actually making the products in each region. My guess is that they're subcontracting out to processors in the regions much the same way private label foods do in the states or the way Sears gets it applicances built. It would be interesting to know how well they can standardize the quality of the line as well as the relative value of the different products. Even relative value is relative. Sometimes there's very little difference between various brands of some food stuff and sometimes there's a world of difference.

I'm also interested in hearing about how old your two kids are and if you had any chance to eat out with them, and how they reacted to what they ate in or out of a restaurant.

[Jonathan Day]

For several years many Carrefour stores have featured an "artisanal" section, often staffed by local producers rather than Carrefour staff. In the one near Nice, for example, they often have olives, locally made ravioli, olive oil, tapenade and the like.

It's rarely great stuff -- my guess is that Carrefour push down the prices, insist on large quantities and demand a heavy share of the selling price for the store. We tend to use Carrefour for dry goods and childrens' clothing rather than food.

I wonder whether they are now starting to brand these artisanal displays under the reflets de France label.

[Bux]

I've always been a fan of the little mom and pop shop food shops and of the great artisan bakers, cheesemongers and such, but I've been incredibly impressed by the range and depth as well as the quality of the best stuff available at some of the hypermarches in France.

[menton1]

I agree wholeheartedly. At a Super U in Pertuis (Vaucluse) last year we got a Walkman for 7 Euros and a Watch for 30 Euros, to replace broken ones that we had brought from home.

Another wonderful feature of the Hypermarchés is that they are always located outside of town, in the Zone Industrielle, so as not to disturb the attractiveness of the downtown towns and villages. Why can't we do that?

[Bux]

Another wonderful feature of the Hypermarchés is that they are always located outside of town,

That's a double edged sword. While they preserve the architecture of the town and scale of the buildings for those who are driving through by car, they also deaden the life of many small villages by eliminating the reason for people to live or congregate in them. I remember looking at a rental property in the southwest of France. It was my wife's idea that we should "live" somewhere in France rather than tour and stay in hotels. I was reluctant to give up the starred chefs, but she was excited about the raw products and the chance to eat the food we don't find in restaurants and inns. Part of her argument was that I could hang out at the local cafe/bar and improve my French. The rental property was owned by a charming English woman. She and her French boyfriend lived in the main house and would have been nice neighbors. Unfortunately, the towns fold all shopped in the shopping center which they drove to and since the local shops had all closed, the local bar was only open sporadically. That killed my interest.

[annieb]

While driving from Geneva to visit friends who live west of Moulins, we were subjected to the worst kind of village death. Once you get off the toll road, you are on the only road that cuts west to Bordeaux, two lane. Apparently all the villages en route lobbied to have the road go through the center of the village, thinking that an alternate route would spell death. What you have is wall to wall truck traffic, villages where no one can stop (almost literally!) because the traffic is so thick and there's no place to pull over in front of a cafe, for instance, and signs all along the route that proclaim "X persons died in the next X kilometres since X date", and always really shocking in the high death rate.

What I really want to know is, why can't supermarkets in the US sell cooked, vacu-packed beets? Beets are much loved in our household, and while there are times that cooking them yourself (as I did last night) is welcome, we would eat them about 3 times as much if I could buy them like in France.

Oh, yeah, and puff pastry (fresh, not frozen) made with actual butter?

[menton1]

why can't supermarkets in the US sell cooked, vacu-packed beets?

Fairway in New York, on Broadway has had them for a while. Still like fresh beets better.

[Bux]

Even in the outdoor markets in France, I've seen cooked beets for sale. Beet salad is easy as tomato salad.

[skchai]

I'm also interested in hearing about how old your two kids are and if you had any chance to eat out with them, and how they reacted to what they ate in or out of a restaurant.

Thanks for the replies.

In response to your question, Bux, my children are 3 and 7, and eating with them in France was somewhat of an adventure. We ruled out in advance anything approaching haute cuisine - the kids can't sit in one place for more than 20 minutes or so before they start to thrash about and complain, so it would have been very difficult for us or the people around us to enjoy the full experience! Not to mention my son's habit of lying down on the table, but that's another story . . .

We did try some cafes and had a mixed experience. Didn't have a lot of time for research, so went to some the guidebook standbys, e.g. Les Deux Garcons in Aix and Les Deux Magots in Paris. They were actually reasonably child-friendly, possibly since they get so many tourists - even a children's menu (hamburger steak, fried chicken) at The Garcons. The food was as ordinary as you would expect.

Cafe Lenôtre on Champs Elysee was more "gastronomical" but somewhat less child-friendly - it wasn't that they were inhospitable, but they weren't really set up for children. The chairs were extremely high for the kids to climb on, and menu didn't contain anything that was really that a typical kid could identify with right off the bat - though my son nonetheless liked their "tapas" (sic) plate, which was basically a bunch of dips and breads plus chicken wings marinated tandoori-style with turmeric and a couple of vanilla-scented prawns. Neither of the kids would touch the gnocchi with very nice sauce made of pureed fresh peas.

The one thing that was pretty intolerable at all the cafes was the smoking. Even where there was a non-smoking table, it was surrounded by smoking tables, so there wasn't really any point. Nor were the smokers hesitant about lighting up around children - in one case a guy lit up a big cigar right next to my three-year old daughter. He gallantly moved away, but only because everyone at our table began to gag and cough very loudly! After a a few bad experiences my wife decreed that we wouldn't eat out except when absolutely necessary.

Actually that turned out not to be such a bad thing. We had a lot of fun assembling a meal at various boulangerie, charcuterie, etc, then taking it back to our hotel room. It was easier for the kids to pick and choose, since they could see the choices right in front of them. We also frequented the hypermarche, as mentioned, though we mostly used that to get the basics - milk, juice, yoghurt. Everybody got addicted to freshly-squeezed blood orange juice and are now experiencing painful withdrawal.

The reaction of the kids to the food was pretty much similar to what we get at home. Of course, they are not that typical - my son eats almost everything and my daughter eats almost nothing (except candy and ice cream). When in doubt, we could order a steak-frites or croque monsieur at just about any cafe, and if that didn't work, just skip to dessert. The wife and kids missed Korean food, so we tried a Japanese-Korean place in Aix called Yoyo (winner of the Golden Baguette!), and it was a strange experience. Certain of the "panchan" (side dishes) were classified "entree" and others were "plats" - it seemed pretty arbitrary. The waiters seemed to be Vietnamese. Getting really off-topic, so I'll stop.

[Schneier]

I'm staying in the Loire, and at every supermarket I'm seeing "Reflets de France" brand local products: confitures, pates, soups, cookies, sauces, apple juice...everything.

Honestly, I prefer to buy actual local products from local producers at small markets, but it's hard to completely avoid this stuff. The prices are good, and I've bought a few things here and there.

Does anyone else have any experience with this brand? Do they any sort of reputation in France?

I've poked around a bit on the Internet, but have come up with nothing.

Bruce

[Bux]

My prejudices for and against mass production and widely available brand names color my acceptances of them. My guess is still that they represent good value over all and will excel and lag behind in different products. If you're looking for absolute top quality without concern for price point, you're probably going to be led to artisanal producers. If you're stuck choosing amoung unknown brands, this one may be a safe bet. As I said, that's my prejudice not my observation from experience, but you're in a wonderful position to be a consumer reporter for au all.

[Schneier]

That's basically what I'm doing; buying artisanal whenever possible.

But I have a bottle of their Soupe de Poissons de Mediterranee in my hot little hands right now. And a small jar of their Rouille de Provence.

I'll let you know. (But not tonight. Tonight we're roasting a pigeon.)

Bruce

[Schneier]

I have a bottle of their Soupe de Poissons de Mediterranee in my hot little hands right now. And a small jar of their Rouille de Provence.

Had the soup tonight. It was good. Not as good as making it yourself, but for store-bought canned soup, it was delicious.

I would buy it again. I wish it were available in the U.S.

Bruce

[TarteTatin]

Oh, yeah, and puff pastry (fresh, not frozen) made with actual butter?

Yes!

I can't believe there are twenty different varieties in the supermarkets in France.

Here in the States we are lucky to get Pepperidge Farms.

I crave those choices for buttery puff pastry!

[Schneier]

I have a bottle of their Soupe de Poissons de Mediterranee in my hot little hands right now. And a small jar of their Rouille de Provence.

Had the soup tonight. It was good. Not as good as making it yourself, but for store-bought canned soup, it was delicious.

I would buy it again. I wish it were available in the U.S.

Bruce

Just tastest a different Soupe de Poissons; this one was sold by the fishmonger at my local market. MUCH better than the Reflets brand.

Bruce