Asian restaurant banter

[tighe]

It was only when I delved into non-Japanese Asian restaurants that I became disappointed with the 'dumbing-down' of flavours.

Roger, seems to me that this would make a great thread that would have many eager participants here in the PNW if you'd be willing to write about your experience. I've had far too little experience with authentic Asian food to make valid comparisons with what is served in local restaurants. Please name names as well...

[Roger McShane]

Roger, seems to me that this would make a great thread that would have many eager participants here in the PNW if you'd be willing to write about your experience. I've had far too little experience with authentic Asian food to make valid comparisons with what is served in local restaurants. Please name names as well...

This is a difficult task! I always like to join in an educative process. I am also aware that 'outsiders' who make negative comments about the US can be treated with a great deal of hostility.

I am always extremely grateful that my colleagues at MIT in Boston first pointed me to a Thai restaurant (Bangkok) in 1980. I was stunned with the clean, fresh flavours that I had never experienced in Australia at that time. I has been travelling to Singapore for about ten years at the time and had become immersed in Malaysian and Indian flavours but had never tried authentic Thai cuisine.

So, I then began my obsession with Thai cuisine. This was helped immensely when David Thompson opened his amazing restaurant called Darley Street Thai in Sydney. He did everything just like he would in Thailand. The coconut milk and cream were fresh. The chillis were the small 'scuds' that are really, really hot. The flavours were uncompromisingly authentic. If you didn't cope - then you were the problem!

I soon came to realise that Thai food is one of the most complex and sophisticated in the world. Probably more advanced than French - even though I love everything about that country.

And now to Seattle - a city that I really like (except for the freeways)! I will take just one example. I recently (April 2003) had a few meals at Wild Ginger. All of the food I tried here was well cooked and presented beautifully. My only comment is that a Laotian dish should taste like a Laotian dish. A Thai dish should taste like a Thai dish! The food was enjoyable. It was cooked competently. It just didn't taste of Asia. The Thai dishes were muted 'in extremis'. They didn't have that amazing balance of sweet, sour, salty and hot that you expect from the street stalls of Bangkok.

I should add that this is not a problem confined to Seattle. I once took a journey into the suburbs of Chicago to try a Thai restaurant that lots of people had recommended as being exemplary. Same problem. It wasn't worth the journey.

I would really like to hear about places in the US that provide the same sort of flavours as the Vientiane Kitchen or Ton Po in Bangkok or Sailors Thai in Sydney. I would really like to have them on my visiting list. I just don't want to go to places that provide pale imitations.

[trillium]

I am always extremely grateful that my colleagues at MIT in Boston first pointed me to a Thai restaurant (Bangkok) in 1980. I was stunned with the clean, fresh flavours that I had never experienced in Australia at that time. I has been travelling to Singapore for about ten years at the time and had become immersed in Malaysian and Indian flavours but had never tried authentic Thai cuisine.

Isn't it funny how that combination of flavors puts a huge sensory memory in your mind if you've never been exposed to them growing up? I still remember the first heady whiff of basil, galanga, fish sauce, garlic and cilantro, and the flavor explosion that happened on my tongue with my first bite. Some of that wonder stays with me every time I'm working with the same ingredients, 15 years later. Now I grow 3 different basils, 3 different chillies, hoard good galanga and kaffir limes and leaves in the freezer. It's hard to beat what you can cook at home here in the US.

And now to Seattle - a city that I really like (except for the freeways)! I will take just one example. I recently (April 2003) had a few meals at Wild Ginger. All of the food I tried here was well cooked and presented beautifully. My only comment is that a Laotian dish should taste like a Laotian dish. A Thai dish should taste like a Thai dish! The food was enjoyable. It was cooked competently. It just didn't taste of Asia. The Thai dishes were muted 'in extremis'. They didn't have that amazing balance of sweet, sour, salty and hot that you expect from the street stalls of Bangkok.

I have the same feeling about Wild Ginger, but I've only eaten there once. But it is widely regarded as fusion, right? It's not claiming to be true Thai.

I should add that this is not a problem confined to Seattle. I once took a journey into the suburbs of Chicago to try a Thai restaurant that lots of people had recommended as being exemplary. Same problem. It wasn't worth the journey.

I would really like to hear about places in the US that provide the same sort of flavours as the Vientiane Kitchen or Ton Po in Bangkok or Sailors Thai in Sydney. I would really like to have them on my visiting list. I just don't want to go to places that provide pale imitations.

The best Laotian food I've had in the US was actually in Madison, WI. There is good Thai to be had in Chicago, but they're little holes in the wall and don't always stay in business. We had a favorite that did a great job (hot enough, green peppercorns in all the right places, red chillies not red bell peppers etc) but it went under right before we left. They had plans to open some place else. Another place I really liked lost it's chef and went downhill from there.

Here's what Raelena says in rec.food.cooking about Thai Tom in Seattle "Thai Tom

in the University District -- food like you'd get at the stalls in Bangkok (for nearly the same price)... where the cook dances with a pony tail amidst blackened woks, leaping flames, and a line out the door most nights." Sounds promising, no?

regards,

trillium

[Schielke]

Thai Tom is good, they are bitches, but make good food. I have not been to Thailand so I cannot make the comparison.

[trillium]

Thai Tom is good, they are bitches, but make good food.  I have not been to Thailand so I cannot make the comparison.

Errrr...wow...care to elaborate? Or do I not want to know?

regards,

trillium

[Schielke]

The inside of Thai Tom's is a lunch counter and 3 tables within arm's reach of the counter. Very small and informal. A friend and I went there for lunch and the transaction went as follows.

Order taker swivels around on stool: What do ya want?

We place our orders.

Order taker swivels around again when order is ready and gives us our food.

We eat

Order taker swivels around again to give us our bill

we pay and then realize that we have just enough cash (cash only place) to pay for the food and not enough for tip. At this point, we figure that a) this place is one of those limbo places where you are not sure if you should tip or not and b) we would just tip bigger next time to make up for it.

We leave out money on the table and leave.

The order taker chases out after us onto the street demanding a tip. We tell him that we would have, but ran out of money that day. He turns around in disgust and slams the door.

I have also had issues with their sister restaurant Tai-ger room further south on the Ave. I was eating with my girlfriend who cannot handle spicy food. We order a phad thai with one star out of five for spicyness. The food comes and is blazing hot. It was so hot that I could barely eat it (and I am no spicy slouch). I try to eat it so as not to make a scene, but give up after a few bites. I told the waiter that this is obviously not a one star dish and he agrees and takes it away. He comes back with the new dish, which is the appropriate heat level. He then informs us that he is going to charge us for half of the first dish on top of the new one since we ate some of it before sending it back.

Ben

[mamster]

At tighe suggestion, I split this thread into two. Feel free to continue the argument here.

Oddly, Ben, I had the opposite thing happen once at Thai-ger room. I ordered some noodle dish, three stars, and they brought it to me and it seemed fine. Then they brought me a whole other plate of it and apologized, saying the first one wasn't spicy enough. I asked them to wrap the second plate, and had it for lunch the next day. I guess it all depends.

[tighe]

And now to Seattle - a city that I really like (except for the freeways)! I will take just one example. I recently (April 2003) had a few meals at Wild Ginger. All of the food I tried here was well cooked and presented beautifully. My only comment is that a Laotian dish should taste like a Laotian dish. A Thai dish should taste like a Thai dish! The food was enjoyable. It was cooked competently. It just didn't taste of Asia. The Thai dishes were muted 'in extremis'...

Wild Ginger has many ardent fans, but I've never been all that taken with it. Admittedly I've only been there a couple times and not for a few years. I don't think that most of the people here are too defensive about the local restaurant scene, maybe of some individual places though. I've never talked to anyone who has actually been to Thailand or Vietnam who says they've had food here in Seattle that was comparable.

[Roger McShane]

Trillium

I have the same feeling about Wild Ginger, but I've only eaten there once. But it is widely regarded as fusion, right? It's not claiming to be true Thai.

Your comments are quite valid. Wild Ginger does not claim to be a Thai restautant - and remember that I am only using that restaurant as an example. However, it does claim some of its dishes to be Thai - without qualfication. They don't say that they are Thai-inspired or Thai-like or even 'pale imitations of Thai'. If they claim a dish to be Thai, then it should resemble a Thai dish in flavour and construction.

The dishes claimed to be Thai at Wild Ginger don't remind me in any way of the many dishes I have tried in Thailand. They are not even remotely similar in flavour, texture, balance or presentation.

[tsquare]

I'll jump into this fray.

Why would anyone expect a restaurant that feels like a corporate hotel lobby to serve authentic asian foods? The place is on "best of" lists all around, but I don't know anyone in the food business (or interested in food) that thinks the food is interesting. And plenty of animosity towards them for the huge stink (pun intended) they mounted against the possibility of locating an urban "rest stop" next door (a place for homeless to shower, do laundry, and take care of basic necessities.) At the moment, their downstairs theater venue construction has pickets outside - carpenters protesting the Associated General Contractors.

Try places such as Malay Satay or Mai Thao (Vietnamese) for asian cusine, not dumbed down. I've heard there is a place North of where MLK crosses Rainier (close to Franklin High School) that has great Thai food - haven't managed to try it out, yet.

[trillium]

Try places such as Malay Satay or Mai Thao (Vietnamese) for asian cusine, not dumbed down. I've heard there is a place North of where MLK crosses Rainier (close to Franklin High School) that has great Thai food - haven't managed to try it out, yet.

Malay Satay House drives the Singaporean in the house crazy. He thinks it is dumbed down, I insist it could be due to regional differences, he counters with talk about lack of longtong when they had satay, lack bits of pork fat in the fried noodle dishes (and the fact that they don't use lard to fry them), the idea that a "real" asian restaurant would be serving pork chops and the roti canai tastes wrong. Sigh. When I'm visiting my mum, we sneak off and eat there by ourselves.

regards,

trillium

[Fish]

Malay Satay House drives the Singaporean in the house crazy. 

A Singaporean guy I work with loves the Malay Satay in Bellevue - I think he eats there every day. Personally, I think the food is terrible, but then I won't eat the stuff (esp pork) that's recommended. Everything else has been massively underwhelming.

- S