St John

[A Balic]

No I haven't, I can't stand bloody Koalas. Revolting animals. I have heard that they taste very bad because of their diet (eucalyptus leaves only).

[cabrales]

Seriously, did they serve the suirrel's brain.  There is a school of thought in the midWest that the brain is the best bit.

Wilfrid -- The squirrel's brain was not served; neither was its tail.    I didn't even get the crouton with goodies that Simon did.

On koala, is it legal to eat them in Australia (or New Zealand)? When I was in Australia a couple of years ago, there were already very few establishments where one can cuddle a koala directly (with many places offering holding of a branch or some other item with the koala more distant, and others allowing pictures next to an animal keeper who was holding the animal). Happily, I got to cuddle 3 different koala, including a baby. That experience wouldn't dissuade me from sampling koala, though, if it were available and legal in the relevant jurisdiction.  

[A Balic]

Cabrales - it is illegal to kill Koalas, because for some reason people want to stop the bloody stinking things going extinct, so you can't eat them legally.

Also, a squirrel served sans tail? I smell a rat.

[cabrales]

No I haven't, I can't stand bloody Koalas. Revolting animals. I have heard that they taste very bad because of their diet (eucalyptus leaves only).

Eucalyptus leaves, taken in large quantities, are supposed to have certain drug-like properties for animals as small as koalas. I wonder how the eucalyptus would affect the taste of the koala. This is going to sound gross (sorry, everybody), but I wonder how the pouch of koala or kangaroo might taste like. Any members tried, for example, kangaroo pouch?

[A Balic]

I don't think pouch would be very nice, to tough. My wife has smelt the inside of a potaroo's (a small kangaroo like thing) pouch, she didn't recommend the experience.

[Tonyfinch]

Had a very disappointing meal at St.John last night.No squirrel on the menu but there was "rolled pig's spleen",which I managed to pass up.The place was jam-packed with people queuing to get in.Our food came 3 minutes after we'd ordered,it wasn't hot and was presented in a very slapdash manner.A tepid hunk of lamb leg with no sauce offered and two shrivelled carrots was overpriced at £18.20.and £3 seemed a lot to pay for a table spoon sized extra of pease pudding.The house red was the roughest I've had in a restaurant for a long time.

Staff were rushed off their feet and looked a bit frazzled.For the first time in numerous visits I left this restaurant feeling ripped off.

[Wilfrid]

Cabrales:  You are getting away from rodents now, and on to marsupials.  I assume you've had kangaroo?  One of the world's great game meats.  Kangaroos became legal game in Australia some time in the early 90s, because they had multiplied to pest level.  Koalas seem to be headed in the other direction.  I did once vow never to eat duckbill platypus (not that I'm likely to get the chance) as they are exceptionally cute and very rare.  But Koala - I'll give it a go.

Adam: If you want to tell us how your wife came to be sniffing a marsupial's pouch, fine.  But if not, that's fine too.

[cabrales]

Cabrales:  You are getting away from rodents now, and on to marsupials.  I assume you've had kangaroo?  One of the world's great game meats.  Kangaroos became legal game in Australia some time in the early 90s, because they had multiplied to pest level.  Koalas seem to be headed in the other direction.  I did once vow never to eat duckbill platypus (not that I'm likely to get the chance) as they are exceptionally cute and very rare.  But Koala - I'll give it a go.

Wilfrid -- I had kangaroo for the first time during the past year (yes, a relative late bloomer in respect of less common meats, although I am now making good progress    ). It was at Sugar Club, again in London, as part of a decently priced prix fixe menu on a Sunday. I don't recollect the meat having been particularly gamey, though (note my recollection is hazy on this point). Squirrel is quite gamey, and the meat (at least as presented to me) was a mauve color, darker looking, in some areas.

A while ago, I had had widgeon for the first time at St John too. Somehow, the name led me to think it would be a very small bird, which it wasn't.  The sample I received was only slightly smaller than a pigeonneau. I was looking around for grouse other than red grouse, and didn't find much of it around.  I have yet to taste ostrich, emu, bison or alligator meat, which I will order at the first restaurant I see each of them in.    Do members have any leads on London establishments for sampling these meats?

[Wilfrid]

Widgeon.  One of the several varieties of wild duck you might get to eat.  Yes, I think one would be quite a generous portion for a single diner (although half wouldn't be enough!).  Mallard is probably the most commonly available, but I also recommend you look out for teal, which is smaller and more delicate (I guess the seasons must be coming to an end soon).

I wonder if it is worth looking for different types of grouse?  I am not sure they vary much in flavor, but I am open to contradiction.  Anyway, grouse are well and truly finished until next August (if you buy one now it will have been frozen).

Kangaroo - I agree, not "gamey" in flavor, but literally a game meat in the sense that it's wild not farm-raised.  Or maybe they are farm-raised now?  Ostrich certainly are farmed.  I used to eat kangaroo and emu at a little Australian restaurant in Soho (Delicious Blue, I think) - long gone, I'm afraid.  I don't remember seeing bison or alligator on a London menu, but good luck!

[Scottf]

I had Ostrich steak in a little restaurant in South Croydon a few years ago.  I can't really remember too much about it now except it was particularly salty.  If memory serves it was slightly chewier than beef steak also.

[A Balic]

The pouch smelling was a sciene thing. Widgeon always tastes a little fishy to me, Teal is better.

[Andy Lynes]

Staff were rushed off their feet and looked a bit frazzled.For the first time in numerous visits I left this restaurant feeling ripped off.

Do think the queues had something to do with the Restaurant magazine front cover? Perhpas they felt they couldn't say no to all those extra covers, but should have done for the sake of the regulars like yourself.

[Wilfrid]

I too have found ostrich a little tough and dry.  I think the last time I had it was at Chanterelle of all places (a silly thing to order in the circumstances).  Saltiness sounds like a kitchen error.

[Jinmyo]

The pouch smelling was a science thing.

Oh. Another science thing.

[Jon Tseng]

Didn't Elvis used to eat squirrel when he was a kid?

Seem to remember a tv doc a while back about all the stuff the chowed down - fried banana sandwiches, cheeseburgers, and squirrel when he was growing up in the country...

also see Unmentionable Cuisine (Schwave - they had it in Books for Cooks last i was there) for more on rodent cuisine

J

[Matthew Grant]

Wilfred, if your Ostrich was tough and dry it has definitely been overcooked, If it  is served rare it is a lovely meat.

If you want to try stuff like Ostrich, Emu, Giraffe, Cockateil, Aligator etc. etc. and you happen to be in Africa you must go to a restaurant called Carnivore. There is one in Nairobi and I believe there are a couple in South Africa. All the meat is cooked on a huge Barbeque and carved at your table. Rare Zebra leg was great! Don't worry about poaching, all the meat is farmed or has come from culls.

As for London, I haven't got a clue, but some of the African game meat is very interesting and would be worth serving in a more daring establishment.

[cabrales]

The current Gault Millau magazine previews a restaurant in Paris called O Rebelle, at 24 Rue Traversiere, Tel: 01 43 40 88 98. The description indicates that the following items are available: kangaroo in curry with spinach, gazelle in a gratin, carpaccio of ostrich, filet of bison.  Also, magret  .  The indicated price ranges are 23.80 euros for 2 plates, and 29 euros for 3. Wine apparently includes many South African and Chilean offerings.

[Wilfrid]

Drat.  Squirrel season has just finished.  I just had a chat with someone at St. Jonh, and they tell me the season during which squirrel can be culled as vermin is only about three weks every year.  It's just over, and the last two squirrels are on the menu tonight (don't know if they're taken yet).

Must make a squirrel season note in next year's diary!

[cabrales]

Wilfrid -- If you're interested in rare meats, as you may know, circeplum and I have been discussing Sprinbok Cafe (in Chiswick, which is not too far away from Central London -- it's in the same general vicinity as La Trompette, and accessible apparently using some type of public transportation like the metro/Tube?). See "Cobra and Chocolate Scorpions?" in this forum. Sprinbok offers certain meats with names I do not even recognize (from Africa, among other places), and seems to be at the St John price level. I have not eaten at Sprinbok, but circeplum had nice things to report on the antelope. Given your limited time in London, however, Sprinbok might be a bad choice, as you might want to sample a more "discussed" restaurant?

If you would like, several days before you arrive in London I could go to St John and pick up their then current menu (changes are rapid) and post the contents on the board. Then, you can decide whether St John or some other restaurant might be appropriate.   It's not an inconvenience at all, as I'd just have a taxi stop by that restaurant on my way to dinner.

As for the St John squirrels (it's like saying the last truffles or asparagus of the season, a bit whimsical ), I'd try for them myself if I didn't have reservations at La Tante Claire.

PS: What did you think of the poems I wrote?

[Wilfrid]

The poems were......fresh and interesting.

You are very kind to make the St John menu offer, but it's already too late.  I shall be in a computer free zone shortly, then setting off for London this weekend, and unlikely to read your post in time.  It is a very frustratingly short trip, as I can see only one real dining out opportunity.  I may dine out on business too one evening, but I have no confidence in the people who will choose the restaurant.

I know Chiswick, and must make a note of the the Springbok for a future trip.  The advantage of St. John is that I'll be close by there; the Clerkenwell Dining Rooms is an option too.  I have decided I dislike Smith's.

If I am overlooking some splendid new place in the Clerkenwell/Smithfield area please say.  By new, I guess I mean open in the last year, otherwise I've probably been there).

Thanks again.  (It's none of my business, but if you are London based, why are you a bit uncertain about the whole "metro/tube" deal?  Tell me not to be nosy, by all means.  Do you just never use it?)

[cabrales]

Wilfrid -- Club Gascon (a la Steve P) is within 2 minutes by car from St John. It's not new within your definition, so you've probably been (and might even have posted about it?)It would be much better than Clerkenwell Dining Room, which I visited twice recently (see thread by same name). I think sticking with St John (even without the squirrels) or choosing Club Gascon would be preferable to Clerkenwell.  

On the metro/Tube, I was trying to be helpful to non-UK members who, unlike yourself, have not previously lived in the UK. And yes, I take the Tube, although not necessarily to restaurants when it gets late and I am wearing shoes that are difficult to walk in. Have to sign off soon -- La Tante Claire beckons. Koffman's supposed to have a good pied de cochon, if I recollect properly. :confused:

[Wilfrid]

You lucky thing - I remember Koffman's pig's foot fondly.  I will check out the Clerkenwell DR thread again; and indeed, I have been to Club Gascon, although it was some time before I ever discovered eGullet.

[John Whiting]

Last Monday Nichola Fletcher of Reediehill Farm conducted a comparative game tasting for the Guild of Food Writers in which over a dozen different varieties of bird and rodent were all prepared in the same simple way – thin slices quickly pan fried. The result enabled one to compare like with like rather than merely sampling the chef’s virtuosity. We were warned that individual flavors could vary according to age and season; in this instance there was general agreement that the most inherently complex and interesting were the woodcock and the pheasant.

In the case of the woodcock we were each given a small round crouton with a smear of the guts, topped with a morsel of the meat. The crouton was sensational. We were also given the reassuring information that the bird, as it takes to the sky, always evacuates; thus one’s excremental intake is minimized. (Anyone who shoots a woodcock on the ground is in for a rude shock.) Shaun Hill serves it at Merchant House, where, for those who like the brain, he includes the head. But not the guts - his minute kitchen is immediately adjacent to the small dining room, and so the smell would drive those of delicate constitution out into the street.

We also had squirrel. To everyone’s surprise it was not at all unpleasant but quite bland. It was also extremely fatty – a great deal had to be removed before it was cooked. Again, we were told that this could vary according to age, season and sex.

Finally, I am always amused at the efforts to reconcile St. John’s with the fashionable method of serving up food that looks like a structural engineer’s wet dream, otherwise known as the Leaning Tower of Pizza. I’m reminded of a Helen Hockinson cartoon years ago in the New Yorker, in which one of her rotund clubwomen is asking the instructor of a flower arranging class, “How do I achieve the effect of a sombrero carelessly thrown down?”

[Tonyfinch]

Cabrales. Bring your poems round to my place and we can discuss them over scorpions and absinthe.Then I'll show you mine.....

[Andy Lynes]

Finally, I am always amused at the efforts to reconcile St. John’s with the fashionable method of serving up food that looks like a structural engineer’s wet dream

John - I assume you are referring to my comments earlier in the thread. I don't expect tall food, or glass plates or foams,  but at least some thought and effort to make it pleasing to the eye which I found lacking in my main course.

I think I have said before that I find St John's studied casualness as affected as any number of Michelin wannabies.