Espresso Machines

[phaelon56]

My kitchen:

Mazzer Mini

Escali digital scale to weigh beans for espresso and for roast blending - 1/10 gram accuracy

Isomac Tea (E61 style grouphead)

18/10 stainless steel pitcher for frothing - 12 oz pitcher for singles and 24 oz for multiples

Solis Maestro reserved for drip coffee (on the rare occasions when I make it)

Alpenroast drum roaster

My office: (in another city)

Saeco Trevi superauto bought as refurb for $325 total - decent Americano's but mediocre cappa's

Reviews I've seen of doserless Rocky have mixed opinions on how mess-free the doserless system really is. I agree that the Mazzer is really messy until one becomes accustomed to it but the stepless adjustment system is fantastic. Rocky owners (and others) generally acknowledge having regular occasions where the grind level they want is between the indents on the adjustment collar. The Mini is so quiet, so rock solid and such a joy to use that it's worth the learning curve.

The trick for me is to weigh the beans (17 or 17.5 grams per double shot), grind, stop, quick brush out of the doser neck and hit the grind button to expel the loosened grinds. You must remove the steel finger guard to do this but how dumb woul done have to be to stick their finger up the doser chute of a coffee grinder that is running? If you think a gram or so of stale grounds won't affect the taste of your espresso, think again. You wouldn't use "just a bit" of some other stale foodstuff in preparing a fine dish to eat, now would you? I'm not talking about grounds from a few hours ago. I travel frequently and may go days or even weeks before I'm home to use my gear. The brushing routine and weighing the beans seemed so anal and like such overkill that I resisted trying it until I became frustrated by lack of consistency in my espresso shots. ONce I started doing it, it became such an ingrained routine that now it adds perhaps 30 - 40 seconds to the overall process but has given me remarkable consistency.

I roast my own when time permits and use Sweet Maria's as my bean source but I also pick up freshly roasted beans from Freedom of Espresso in Syracuse when I'm there for work (far too often). They have an excellent blend and roast several times per week. Have been very disappointed the few times I bought espresso blend from Porto Rico Imports on Bleecker - not very fresh. I did get some beans from Empire Coffee and Tea on 9th Ave near 42nd and made up my own espresso blend (they don't have a house espreso blend). It was not up to the standards of my favorite blends but not bad. Intelligentsia, Vivace and a few others are good sources for mailorder but pricey. CCM Coffee in Tampa FL is waaaay cheaper and decent - actually very good for the price and tends to be a very dark roast. I used to love Torrefazione Italia's Perugia blend but it was not always as fresh as I'd like. The original Torrefazione owners (they sold out to Seattle's Best) have a new business called Caffe Umbria and have a rock solid blend called Gusto Crema - they sell mostly commercially but will mail order five pound bags. Break it into 1/4 ziplocs, freeze and pull them out one at a time - pretty good system.

It still blows my mind that there isn't one good microroaster/cafe (none that I'm aware of) in Manhattan or North Jersey.

Cheapest machines that are any good? Gaggia Carezza is said to be the best thing out there under $250 - $300 (it's likely about $200 - $225). Solis SL-70 is also pretty good. Don't skimp on a grinder - get a used Rocky or shop for a good price (under $200) on a Cunill Tranquilo - noisy but commercial quality. It's crucial to good quality - inadequate grinder = inconsistent espresso.

The Francis!Francis! machines are in the opinion of many a form over function product but in their defense it should be mentioned that they changed to a different supplier for the innards and are significantly improved over what they were a year or two ago. A Silvia still runs circles around the X1 or the X5 (please don't accuse me of being a bigoted Silvia owner - I've never had one!)

Having the cheap superauto in the office I can readily attest that I'd rather have a $300 espresso machine and use pod espresso - results would be pricier but better.

As all can attest, Silvia is a great machine but at its current price I suggest saving a few more $$ and getting an Expobar with E61 style grouphead for about $600 - $700. It offers the innards and advantages of the $1200 machines like the Isomac Tea or the ECM Giotto but at a far lower price (tradeoff is a less slick and plainer exterior).

Edited June 22, 2003 by phaelon56 (log)

[phaelon56]

Hee... What you need is a grinder where you can hook the portafilter into a zeroed scale of some kind and set the scale for the weight of coffee grinds you want (I assume a gram scale with one significant digit would suffice, or should we bump it to two?  ).  Then, with the press of a button, the grinder could automatically dispense the weight of coffee grinds you specified.

Too bad it doesn't exist, actually...

Actually.... a variation of this system is already in use. Commercial grinder are consistent enough that they grind a predictable weight of beans per second, e.g. my Mazzer Mini grinds one gram per second - an exact 17 second grinding cycle produces 17 grams, perfect for a double shot. Some savvy cafe owners (David Schomer of Seattle's Caffe Vivace comes to mind) actually have a timer hooked to the switch on their grinders. The baristi at his place hit the button once for each shot they're going to pull (they have wisely standardized on double shots). Every push of the button grinds exactly the right amount.

Edited June 22, 2003 by phaelon56 (log)

[slkinsey]

If you think a gram or so of stale grounds won't affect the taste of your espresso, think again.  You wouldn't use "just a bit" of some other stale foodstuff in preparing a fine dish to eat, now would you?

Assuming you are referring to my remarks earlier in this thread... who ever said anything about a few grams of stale grounds? I just fastidiously swept out all the stale grounds from my (very dirty at the moment) Rocky doser and it came to around 1/4 of a teaspoon. Given the fact that it takes a little over 11 teaspoons to fill my filterbasket, we're talking about something like 2% "old grounds" as a maximum. -- or, a little over 1/3 of a gram per 17 gram double shot (sorry, I don't have a lab scale at home so I will have to estimate from volume). Mind you, this is a maximum amount and does not really reflect actual usage, which I would predict to be below 1%, or .17 grams per double shot.

Do I think 1% of old grounds will significantly effect a shot made in a home machine? No way. Picking this kind of nit is like buying a $1000 CD player when you have $300 speakers. Think of all the things that would have to be perfect in order to detect this kind of difference. The beans would have to be at peak freshness. The machine would have to be producing the precisely best temperature. The grind would have to be exactly right. The water would have to be soft and free of any chlorine or other chemicals. The grouphead, filterbasket and portafilter would have to be scrupulously clean with no coffee residue whatsoever but also no trace of degergent. Then maybe we can talk about whether or not one has a palate that is capable of discerning the presence of 1% - 2% old coffee grounds.

Now, I don't know about you, but I sure as hell don't spend 30 minutes every day backflushing my machine and scrubbing out my portafilter to make sure that no trace of today's espresso remains to potentially taint tomorrow's cup. Commercial establishments do this every day (well... the good ones) and regular citizens do it a lot less often. If you do it daily, well... then you take your espresso making a lot more seriously than just about anyone I know. I should also point out that every place I have bought espresso in Italy used a doser -- typically a kind that automatically fills the doser with grounds whenever the doser drops below a certain level. The fact that these dosers are always full demonstrates that they are not being cleaned of "old grounds" well... ever. And these places produced by far the best espresso I have had.

I cannot contradict your experience that sweeping out your doser has improved the consistency of your shots -- especially if you sometimes go weeks between uses of your grinder. But it certainly has not been my experience that I need to do a great deal of that kind of thing. All I do is sweep out the grinder chute using the end of a screwdriver (I keep a small one top of the machine for when I want to unscrew the screen for cleaning) and click the doser until it seems to stop making a difference. I only vacuum out the doser when I take the grinder apart to clean the grinder plates.

[malachi]

Actually...

I backflush daily at home (and three times a day at work). Shrug. What can I say, I know it probably makes little to no difference - but it's that "little" that is an issue for me.

[slkinsey]

Actually...

I backflush daily at home (and three times a day at work). Shrug. What can I say, I know it probably makes little to no difference - but it's that "little" that is an issue for me.

You backflush with a cleaner like Urnex daily?! Whoa. You are dedicated, my friend.

I have been known to do a daily "mini-backflush" using only water once upon a time... but that seemed to still leave some residue and I found it just as effective (if not more so) to wipe out the grouphead with a clean dishcloth.

[phaelon56]

Assuming you are referring to my remarks earlier in this thread... who ever said anything about a few grams of stale grounds?  I just fastidiously swept out all the stale grounds from my (very dirty at the moment) Rocky doser and it came to around 1/4 of a teaspoon.  Given the fact that it takes a little over 11 teaspoons to fill my filterbasket, we're talking about something like 2% "old grounds" as a maximum. -- or, a little over 1/3 of a gram per 17 gram double shot (sorry, I don't have a lab scale at home so I will have to estimate from volume).  Mind you, this is a maximum amount and does not really reflect actual usage, which I would predict to be below 1%, or .17 grams per double shot.

Do I think 1% of old grounds will significantly effect a shot made in a home machine?  No way.  Picking this kind of nit is like buying a $1000 CD player when you have $300 speakers.  Think of all the things that would have to be perfect in order to detect this kind of difference.  The beans would have to be at peak freshness.  The machine would have to be producing the precisely best temperature.  The grind would have to be exactly right.  The water would have to be soft and free of any chlorine or other chemicals.  The grouphead, filterbasket and portafilter would have to be scrupulously clean with no coffee residue whatsoever but also no trace of degergent.  Then maybe we can talk about whether or not one has a palate that is capable of discerning the presence of 1% - 2% old coffee grounds.

The Mazzer may collect a bit more than the Rocky or other grinders in terms of what gets left in the chute that feeds the doser - I'm not sure about that - I believe it's between a half gram and one gram but that's based on hearsay - it may well be less. As a solo act who makes two to three doubles per day, sometimes hours apart, compounded by a schedule that has me away from home regularly for intervals ranging from three days to a few weeks.... I hate to leave ground coffee in the doser that will be wasted. Also worth noting is the fact that as a home roaster I may have three or four different blends that I'm trying out on any given day - it's important to me to know that I'm tasting the straight unadulterated blends in order to assess them properly.

When company comes I just grind away to fill the doser with ground coffee, eyeball the quantity and pull one shot after the next - it's all a question of what's most appropriate and expedient for the circumstances. Contrary to what my GF thinks, I'm not a coffee snob - I just know and love good coffee and don't mind putting in extra effort to get it.

The fact is that I probably do take my espresso preparation more seriously than most folks but there's a good reason for that. Inconsistency in results drives me crazy and wastes good beans. After seeking advice from a variety of espresso fiends who were far more knowledgeable than I, there was one theme that kept appearing: eliminate variables.

The routine I've established may seem anal or nitpicking to some but it works for me. Establishing a rigid consistency to the process means that the only variable is grind level. Yes, I use filtered water with the appropriate hardness level, high quality freshly roasted beans etc. etc. I also draw off 6 oz of water through the grouphead to get cooler water in place in order for optimal temp (202 to 204 degrees F) to be present during the brewing process. My cappa cup is 6 oz volume so this is a no brainer and lets me pre-heat the cup. By the way.... yes I do rinse the portafilter with water from the grouphead after every shot, give it a quick wipe with a towel before filling. If more than an hour or two has transpired since my last shot was pulled I give the portafilter a quick scrub with hot water and a Scotchbrite pad - never detergent. I also scrub shower screen with nylon brush and do a backflush with water at the end of any day in which the machine is used. I backflush with Purocaffe (Urnex) no more than once a month - more often is not recommended even for those whose machines get daily use - it's important to soak and clean the portafilter basket and assembly with PuroCaffe at time of monthly backflush.

I won't claim to have a golden palate but I do know that that espresso and cappas I make at home are superior to almost any I've ever had in the US with the exception of a few places in Seattle (and Stumptown Roasters in Portland OR). I also know that after establlishing this rigid routine, I almost never pull an average shot - quality is consistently excellent. I haven't been fortunate enough to try espresso in Italy but look forward to doing that in the next year or two. Maybe I can't taste the difference but the procedures I've chosen don't cost me anything other than an extra two minutes per day - that much time I can justify in the interest of having a quality drink at home.

Edited June 23, 2003 by phaelon56 (log)

[slkinsey]

Maybe I can't taste the difference but the procedures I've chosen don't cost me anything other than an extra two minutes per day - that much time I can justify in the interest of having a quality drink at home.

Oh, I totally agree. For many of us (and I count myself as one) it becomes a hobby as well as just a way to get a good cup of coffee, so going the extra mile is all part of the game. This is one reason I want to get the doserless Rocky. That said, of course, I highly doubt that I'll be able to taste a clear difference once I do get one. Sometimes I sweep my doser out and sometimes I don't. I have been able to get such a drastic improvement in cup quality merely by switching to home roasting, that I just don't feel a pressing need to do it. That said... I do tend to sweep out the doser when I've been away for a long time.

I guess my main point was simply that the presence of a doser in the Rocky (or the Mazzer Mini for that matter) isn't exactly a fatal flaw in terms of cup quality.

[phaelon56]

I agree regarding presence or absence of a doser. If other parts of the process are done correctly it's irrelevant. I absolutely hated the doser mechanism of the Mazzer when I first got it - was ready to send it back because it was so messy and the angled grind dispersion seemed such a hassle. Other Mazzer owners convinced me to give it a bit longer to grow on me and I'm glad I did. Also, I don't believe for an instant that the Mazzer gives a grind which yields better shots than a Rocky - no way. From my perspective, it was a one time long term purchase and I had already done the upgrade path once before - wanted this to be the last grinder for the foreseeable future (and it is!). I really do like the convenience of the stepless adjustment and the build quality is a treat to handle and use.

The new Mazzer E is going to be pricey - list at about $675. Few if any dealers will handle it at that price as few folks will buy it. I got mine as a package deal with the isomac tea - $1080 for the tea and $100 off on the grinder as part of the deal - net grinder price was $275 - not much more than Rocky. No way will I ever spend $500 and up for a grinder unless I own a cafe (hey - it could happen!). The La Marzocco Swift may seem pricey at $4500 but with the auto-tamping feature the timesavings and elimination of wasted coffee allows it to pay for itself in a year or less in a busy cafe. My favorite cafe in Syracuse got one this year - the owner said she was "humbled" by the accuracy with which it grinds, doses and tamps (and yes - by her reckoning it will pay for itself in ten months).

Biggest influences on improvement in my espresso (more or less in order of importance)

1) Good grinder

2) Good espresso machine

3) Home roasting (or finding a good microroaster who always provides fresh beans and is local)

4) Weighing beans for each shot (don't underestimate how much this affects consistency)

5) Proper and diligent daily and monthly cleaning ritual

Did I mention the discussion forums at CoffeeGeek ?

Wonderful community - sort of the eGullet of espresso and coffee. I continue to learn every time I read the forums and routinely get great tips on everything from roasting to brewing and new cafes to check out.

[slkinsey]

Man, the Tea looks like a super-sweet machine. Some day I want a plumbed-in La Marzocco commercial machine. But then again... some day I want a lot of things.

[phaelon56]

The Tea is sweet. Some like the Millenium for the curvier, less boxy styling but when it comes to styling IMHO the ECM Giotto can't be beat. It's got the goods like the Isomacs in the brewing and steaming department and is one sexy beast.

Not a shill for any vendor but I have to say that Chris Nachtrieb at Chris' Coffee Service up in Albany NY totally rocks. Isomac has on a couple occasions had a few QC issue that resulted in some machines (mine including) developing a blockage after a month or two of use. He and his service department jumped through hoops to make - his customer serv ice really sets a gold standard. A friend of mine in Austin TX had the same issue and received similarly stellar service.

By the way......

1) Chris came up with a "plumb in" kit that can run from a five gallon water bottle for apartment bound folks like me who get tired of constantly filling the reservoir - inexpensive and works great.

2) La Marzocco has been exploring development of and done a bit of beta testing and research for a high end home espresso machine - a single group job that will run on 110V and be suitable for small cafes and the espresso fiends who've just GOT to have one. It is expected to be smaller (about half the weight) than the Linea (which is a beast at 145 pounds). Have heard nothing about pricing, delivery or whether it's really going to happen but I got to see the beta unit in action and try a shot from it when I was in Vancouver this spring. Very sweet machine.

Edited June 24, 2003 by phaelon56 (log)

[malachi]

I've heard of the La Marzocco home model...

It would truly be the dream set-up to have a home version of the Linea with the doserless Mazzer Mini. Mmmm... Throw in a lifetime supply of the Vivace Dolce (with perhaps 1/4 Vivace Vita) and I'd be a happy man.

I pulled a shot today using the Dolce that may well have been the best shot I've had in the US. Of course... it was at work not at home, but none the less it was a lovely experience. Almost as good as a mediocre shot in Northern Italy. Vivace's is, in fact, my favorite US roast.

[pim]

I signed up with Illy a Casa program the first week it advertised on the Sunday Times, and have been using it ever since.

I'd had serious reservation about the pods before I got the X5, what with being a tea snob who's opinion of tea bags is that they are only good for scrubing oily residue off of tupperwares, I hesitated a long time before finally jumping in.

The big push was of course the great deal, and heck, if the Illy pods are good enough for Jeffry Steingarten, dmmit, it should be good enough for me. So I jumped in, and have been loving the results since.

I love how easy the pods are, no cleaning, no grounding beans (because frankly preground beans go stale in about a minute after you pop open the can), and I make pretty good espresso with more than decent crema *every* time. Though the shots are not the best I've had, they definitely beat what passes for espresso in an American restaurant any day---and I'm not even going to start on the whole Charbucks debate!

Edited June 26, 2003 by pim (log)

[melkor]

I've been feeling like this coffee habit of mine isn't costing enough money, and I clearly need to spend more time dealing with coffee related things. I've been home roasting for quite a while, I wasn't happy with the hot air roaster I had so I build a bunch of drum roasters for my gas grill - that's been working quite well and I'm really happy with the current ~1LB capacity drum I'm using. I've gone through the entire brewing upgrade cycle, auto drip, manual drip, vac pot, and french press. I'm on my 4th grinder (whirly blade, crappy burr grinder, solis burr grinder, and now an ANFIM burr grinder). I can't bring myself to go through the shitty cycle of buying a replacement espresso machine every six months so I've taken the plunge. I ordered an Isomac Rituale from chris coffee, along with a reg barber tamper, the kit the plumb the Isomac into a water line, and a few other accessories. My 79lbs of stuff will be here on Tuesday and waiting is driving me insane.

Monday when I ordered all this stuff I convinced myself that with a HX espresso machine and all the other coffee junk I own I'd be out of things to buy... Then I found the Illy artist cup collections...

[Schielke]

Justify it to yourself by thinking of how much a coffee drink from Starbucks costs. Multiply that by how much coffee you drink and then add another 100% in value of how much better yours will taste than Starbucks crap.

Ben

[MsRamsey]

That is one bee-yoot of a machine.

[slbunge]

Hopefully you cashed in your $50 off promotion and bought another grinder.

[rockhopper]

Hopefully you cashed in your $50 off promotion and bought another grinder.

I'll second that. A good espresso machine isn't enough; you really do need a real espresso grinder.

[melkor]

Justify it to yourself by thinking of how much a coffee drink from Starbucks costs. Multiply that by how much coffee you drink and then add another 100% in value of how much better yours will taste than Starbucks crap.

Ben

Lets see... 3 visits to starbucks a year, $5 per visit.... $15 + $15 for being twice as good.... $1200 / $30... The machine will pay for itself in only 40 years!

[melkor]

Hopefully you cashed in your $50 off promotion and bought another grinder.

I'll second that. A good espresso machine isn't enough; you really do need a real espresso grinder.

I got a set of cups instead of the discount on the grinder. I think the ANFIM grinder I've got now will work. If it doesn't I'll get something else.

[hollywood]

Justify it to yourself by thinking of how much a coffee drink from Starbucks costs.  Multiply that by how much coffee you drink  and then add another 100% in value of how much better yours will taste than Starbucks crap.

Ben

Lets see... 3 visits to starbucks a year, $5 per visit.... $15 + $15 for being twice as good.... $1200 / $30... The machine will pay for itself in only 40 years!

Yeah, but you locked in the price of your machine. The price of Starbucks will continue to go up.

[melkor]

Justify it to yourself by thinking of how much a coffee drink from Starbucks costs.  Multiply that by how much coffee you drink  and then add another 100% in value of how much better yours will taste than Starbucks crap.

Ben

Lets see... 3 visits to starbucks a year, $5 per visit.... $15 + $15 for being twice as good.... $1200 / $30... The machine will pay for itself in only 40 years!

Yeah, but you locked in the price of your machine. The price of Starbucks will continue to go up.

Somehow I knew someone would come up with a good justification for me...

[phaelon56]

The Anfim is a good grinder and wil serve you well. The stepless adjustment of the Mazzer Mini and the quiet operation are niceties but you'll now have all the ingredinet necessary for making god espresso. I was droolign over the Rituale myself but can't justify an upgrade from one HX vibe pump machine to a snazzier looking one of the same brand.

That is one cool looking machine and you'll be amazed at how quickly, easily and consistently you'll be able to produce great drinks. I typically make espressos only for myself unless company is over but just doing the math on the five times a week to Starbucks (or its superior local cafe equivalent).... plus a few drinks on the weekends.... makes the payback period very realistic, even when cost of coffee etc is factored in. Getting up on a weekend morning and making a great espresso while still in my bathrobe? Priceless....

Just in case you once again run out of coffee related things to spend money on....

I think you need some Frabosk Cups

I cringed at the price but finally broke down and bought a set. Oh, am I glad I did. Preheat them with the water from your grouphead flush and by the time you pull the shots (best pulled directly into the cup) the cups will have enough retained heat that your drink stays wonderfully warm for an extended period of time so you can sip and enjoy. This is directly related to the bathrobe on weekends scenario.

[melkor]

My real motivation is both ms melkor and I work from home and will be able to make as many drinks as we want during the day. I got a set of the Camardo cups, but I'm also in search of the apparently impossible to find illy alien cups. My only remaing coffee problem is the long wait for my new toys to show up.

[Schielke]

At least you got free shipping!

[melkor]

At least you got free shipping!

Think of the savings!!