Espresso Machines

[Clerkenwellian]

Hi,

I realise this is slightly off-topic, but...

am looking to buy an espresso machine, mainly for making my morning espresso but occasionally for cappuccino. Am looking to spend £200 or so. Have narrowed it down to these two:

Gaggia Coffee Deluxe Traditional Espresso Machine

Dualit 84009 Chrome Espresso Coffee Maker

does anyone have any views on these, or any alternatives?

thanks!

[jackal10]

We just installed a reconditioned Jura X90 at the office for about £500.

Amid clunks and whirrs it measures, grinds, compresses, pre-wets, and then brews

Its fully automatic, and actually produces a decent cup of expresso, with good crema

Hot water for tea, and foamed milk are options.

We use Lavezza beans

Later version of the machine are internet enabled....

Productivity is up...

[olly s]

If you have a little more money, what about the king of expresso, the Jura F90. We have one in the office - you can wire it up to you pc and define the taste perimeters of your brew. They retail at around £1k.

[Clerkenwellian]

If you have a little more money, what about the king of expresso, the Jura F90.  We have one in the office - you can wire it up to you pc and define the taste perimeters of your brew.  They retail at around £1k.

thanks, but this is probably a little over the top for my small kitchen

[lamington]

have a look at Coffeegeek for valuable information. Price does not guarantee anything like a decent cup of coffee, so if you're spending a lot, choose well.

[Rob_Ontario]

I second the www.coffeegeek.com recommendation. Read the extensive product reviews...well worth your time.

[slkinsey]

The common thought among espresso geeks seems to be that the Rancilio Silvia is the lowest-priced top-quality espresso machine out there.

Is is very positively reviewed on coffeegeek.com, and was the coffee kid's first love. I have one myself, and have been very, very happy with it. I don't think the Gaggia or Dualit are even in the same category.

One thing about espresso is that, while there is an art to it, it is very much a machine-based product. A great cook can make great food with crappy pans. Good pans only help to make it easier. With espresso, on the other hand, you really can't make good espresso on a not-so-good machine and generally the better the machine, the better the espresso. All this is to say that a decent home espresso setup costs a fair amount of money. I know a lot of people who decided to save money on a machine and ended up not using it very often because the coffee just wasn't all that good. IMO, the Rancilio Silvia/Rocky machine/grinder is the lowest-priced combo of decent quality at around $US750 (~£460). I have the setup from 1st Line with the La Marzocco filter backets, and I plan to buy the three-hole steam tip.

[Bux]

Unfortunately a search on espresso will bring up too many threads here that only remotely mention espresso, but we have had some serious discussions about home espresso machines.

espresso machine

Coffee Machines - Not focused on espresso machines, but the thread has some usefful information.

Rancilio Silvia

I need a new coffee maker - Some good links in here.

There are any number of other threads that contain some useful information along the way and I don't think I've found the link to the thread that introduced me to the Rancilio Silvia model we own. We paid about $400 for it. The shot it produces is far better than the one our old $69 Krups served, although I don't think it comes near what we got in Italy, or Spain from better bars and cafes. No surprise at either end. From what I understand there are better espresso makers at about twice the price. At it's price point, it seems to get good marks all around. We've not used any other make or model in the $100-$700 range and thus can't offer an honest comparison where it counts. We usually get a better cup of espresso than we can get in a bar or restaurant in NYC, however and that's led us to believe we made a good purchase.

There's also the Fat Guy's series on home roasting.

[Jim Dixon]

I think it's in that first link Bux posted above, but take a look at Illy's offer of a Francis Francis X5 for basically wholesale ($175+$25 shipping) if you agree to buy coffee for a year.

I've been using mine for a couple of months and am very happy with it. There is also, I think, a link to the wholelattelove site's review of the machine.

Jim

[slkinsey]

There's also the Fat Guy's series on home roasting.

Home roasting makes such a huge difference, I can't even tell you. And, if you drink a lot of coffee it's cheaper in the long run. Once I started roasting at home (where I make espresso pretty much exclusively) it was very interesting to see how obvious the difference was between coffee made from beans roasted yesterday and coffee made from beans roasted a week ago -- there really is that much of a drop-off in quality in that short a period of time.

[gsquared]

I have a Saeco

Good pressure - 15bar. It produces a great shot, given great beans.

Inferior machine + good beans = grim coffee

Good machine + inferior beans = grim coffee

[a-nomad]

I have a Gaggia and love it.

While I haven't seen much in the way of Gaggia selection since returning to the states, I found out all about them from the owner of my local cafe (while living in Italy).

He helped me pick one out (that wasn't too outrageously priced and I find it makes an excellent 'cappo' and espresso (comparable to those in my previous home).

[Steve Martin]

I like my Gaggia Tebe. You will need a burr grinder, so a model with grinder built in would be good. I have a separate Gaggia grinder.

You must play with the grinder settings to suit the coffee you buy and then adjust the force of your tamping to suit the grind. I have it on good authority that tamping should be quite light and it seems to be the case with my machine.

The best espresso is made at 90 degrees C and 9 bar pressure. A working pressure of 9 bar is best achieved with a dead head pressure rating of 15 bar.

I would hesitate to pay the extra for the Dualit. Good toaster though.

Try the coffee beans from Valvona and Crolla mail order. Possibly the best in Britain.

The crema depends on the tamp and can be elusive, but on a good day my little set up compares favourably with that which we have had in Italy.

The famous Tazza d'Oro in Rome was prosecuted for adding dust from the floor to their coffee. So now we know how to get a great crema.

[russ parsons]

Miss Silvia, all the way. though it does take some fine-tuning your technique to get it working just right. it hasn't been pointed out on this thread yet, but equally important is getting a good grinder. i recommend a gaggia mdf or a rancilio rocky.

[Clerkenwellian]

thanks for all the replies - the Rancilio Silvia it is!

[slkinsey]

thanks for all the replies - the Rancilio Silvia it is!

Yay! Welcome to the cult-- er, club!

In a few more months, when the new models are out, we'll have to talk you into roasting your own beans.

I second what others have said about the need for a quality burr grinder. Check out the new doserless Rocky grinder from Rancilio.

[Clerkenwellian]

thanks for all the replies - the Rancilio Silvia it is!

Yay! Welcome to the cult-- er, club!

In a few more months, when the new models are out, we'll have to talk you into roasting your own beans.

I always thought I was something of a foodie, but until these posts I didn't realise anyone roasted their own coffee beans.

[Fat Guy]

eGullet home-coffee-roasting threads.

At some point I'm going to take all eGullet coffee-related topics and put them in the correct forum, which is the "Non-Alcoholic Beverages" forum under the "Beverages and Libations" category. So if this thread disappears, you'll know where to find it.

[Clerkenwellian]

one final question: living in London, the water's pretty hard. Am I better off using bottled water of some kind or just descaling the thing every few months?

[Fat Guy]

You will notice a difference in the taste and appearance of your coffee if you use bottled or filtered water. Your best bet in terms of cost and convenience is a Brita or other similar filter pitcher.

[slkinsey]

one final question: living in London, the water's pretty hard. Am I better off using bottled water of some kind or just descaling the thing every few months?

You will notice a difference in the taste and appearance of your coffee if you use bottled or filtered water. Your best bet in terms of cost and convenience is a Brita or other similar filter pitcher.

Keep in mind that a Britta or similar charcoal filter won't do anything to cut down the dissolved minerals (calcium and magnesium) that make water "hard." For that you need a water softener. An activated charcoal filter won't help the scaling problem at all, AFAIK. Likewise, it won't help any flavor/appearance problems caused by the minerals.

So, yes, ultimately you are better off using bottled water, and any cheap, soft (i.e., non-mineral) bottled water will do. That said, as FG points out, an activated charcoal filter will make some difference in the flavor. Whether or not it is enough difference is up to your taste buds. Here in NYC, where we are blessed with some of the best, softest tap water in the world, a charcoal filter (and perhaps a sediment filter -- you would be shocked at what I catch in mine) is all we need.

Edited for clarity.

Edited June 11, 2003 by slkinsey (log)

[Fat Guy]

Long-term, bottled water is an expensive and unnecessary habit for coffee-making -- not to mention I don't trust the bottled water companies. If the local tap water is so hard as to be a major problem, you just get Rancilio's $20 softener accessory and hook it to the water line. That plus a Brita and you'll be all set.

[Random Alias]

...(and perhaps a sediment filter -- you would be shocked at what I catch in mine)...

Edited for clarity.

[hollywood]

Long-term, bottled water is an expensive and unnecessary habit for coffee-making -- not to mention I don't trust the bottled water companies. If the local tap water is so hard as to be a major problem, you just get Rancilio's $20 softener accessory and hook it to the water line. That plus a Brita and you'll be all set.

Don't softeners work using sodium? That can be a problem for some folks.

[slkinsey]

Long-term, bottled water is an expensive and unnecessary habit for coffee-making -- not to mention I don't trust the bottled water companies. If the local tap water is so hard as to be a major problem, you just get Rancilio's $20 softener accessory and hook it to the water line. That plus a Brita and you'll be all set.

Don't softeners work using sodium? That can be a problem for some folks.

How does a water softener work? from HowStuffWorks.com.