British chefs in Australia

[Roger McShane]

There has been a lot of press recently about Australian chefs taking London by storm. Of the many examples quoted, David Thompson's justifiable elevation to a Michelin star is but one.

This got me thinking about the contribution of British chefs to Australian cuisine. I remember eating at a long gone restaurant called Max's in Melbourne and hearing a group of British chefs who had only recently arrived enthusing over the freshness of the local produce. This was in the early 1980s.

Since then many British chefs have made a contribution, particualrly in Melbourne. But it is Sydney that has stolen the march!

Could it be that the contribution of the British chefs has held back innovation and the embracing of Asian flavours that typifies Sydney?

I must admit that most of their contributions leave me wondering what all the fuss is about. A recent meal at the Botanical and numerous meals at Ondine are examples.

Having said that I would like to mention two outstaning exceptions. Jeremy Strode who set up the wonderfully-named Pomme in South Yarra (he is now at MG Garage in Sydney) has produced some of the best meals I have ever eaten. Similarly Darren Simpson at Aqua Luna in Sydney is turning out food that is truly wonderful.

However, when you compare this with the contributions of Neil Perry, Peter Doyle, Phillip Searle etc etc it seems to pale into insignificance.

Does anyone else have any thoughts?

[jango]

I have some thoughts, but they are in the mulling stage. Or muddy stage.

Having just returned to Oz after living in California for 22 years, the thing which really jumps out is how Britified the whole culinary scene is, from a popular point of view. That is, TV is full of Brit chefs, (I've never seen this Nigella lass before and being new on this site, I won't venture forth with vulgar brutality in my second post), the stores are full of Brit cookbooks, and many people in the trade are fresh out from the UK. I am yet to discover whether this is a good thing or a bad thing.

I've eaten at too few restaurants to know if this has had a trickle down effect into what goes on your plate. What has surprised me so far is how the food lacks heat (chile heat) when it should be hot, lacks zing when it should zing, and how similiar many menus are. Whoops, I'm whining. Actually, I'm having a ball with the food. It's fabulous. But I prefer to cook it than go out to eat it.

From your post, it sounds as if one should visit Sydney to get a Thai food fix. I was expecting more Thai and Vietnamese restaurants with excellent food, but they have eluded me. (Ah Mu - not either Thai or Viet, is fabulous though).

I shall look forward to reading anything you have to say about this Brit influence, and will continue to comb the archives for suggestions for good eats. (That's where Ah Mu popped out - the laksa thread - thank you).

[lamington]

Hi Jango. I don't know if the British presence on TV and in bookshops is necessarily related to the presence of British chefs in Oz. I think the media presence has more to do with our preference for British-style programs and presentation (or at least a cultural clash when it comes to US-style food programs), and possibly the same is the case for books. The design and content of American food books can be very different from what Australian home cooks prefer. And, of course, the British books are increasingly just TV-spin-offs, so are marketed prominently. At the serious-cook level, however, there is very little published out of Britain at the moment, and US books dominate.

As for poor 'heat' and zing and stuff, it may be a result of Melbourne's bias towards Mediterranean food...? Always a more conservative place than Sydney, I think.

[Roger McShane]

Thanks for those comments Lamington. Your point about the Med influence in Melbourne is very apt.

Also I like your point about British v US. I agree entirely. I would much prefer to see Gary Rhodes than the totally and utterly vacuous Emeril as an example of a cooking program. There are very few US cooking shows that have any redeeming features with the exception of the marvellous Rick Bayliss Mexican programs.

[jango]

Hi Lamington,

Your posts have been fun to read over the last few weeks, especially your discovery about what to do with a yam bean.

You are probably correct about the crossover to restaurant food from media hype. From what I've seen so far, the people who buy the popular books don't actually cook anyway. But they do eat, and many (too many) eaters come to a restaurant with a fairly limited set of expectations.

Yes, there is definitely a more Mediterranean emphasis in Melbourne, especially Italian - understandably. After I recover from serious poblano chile withdrawals, I'm sure I will adapt.

It's still quite a disappointing surprise that there doesn't seem to be any seriously good Mexican or Southwestern USA (muddy label that one) restaurants here. It could well be a consequence of the British wave of chefs here.

Jane

[lamington]

Hi Roger and Jane. I must admit being transfixed by Food Network in the US... largely because it seemed so alien. There are a few light shows that might work here (eg, Alton Brown's stuff, except much of the material won't appeal to Oz audiences), and something I saw with Mario Batali. I guess one reason why we see so little US cooking here is because of expectations that it will involve lots of meat, lots of barbecuing, lots of sauces, and not much style -- regardless of reality. More than once I've heard people talk about US cooking as being "too homely" (negatively), so the market just isn't there perhaps. Mexican? Sigh. Too much of the cheap tacos cachet, I guess -- Mexican is for students and people who buy burrito-kits at the supermarket? Such a pity.

Any thoughts as to why UK shows like Masterchef and Ready Steady Cook don't have Australian versions?

Edited June 9, 2003 by lamington (log)

[jango]

Homely? Hmm. I'll have to think on that little morsel. There certainly is a current fad for stuff called "comfort food" there. At least there doesn't seem to be much of that here either in the restaurants or on the telly.

Yes, Australians are missing a fantastic cuisine by ignoring real Mexican. Is there any hope?

[Roger McShane]

I totally agree about the lack of good Mexican food in Australia.

I think we have done well with incorporating Asian food into the country (the laksa at Penang Coffee House, the Thai food at Sailors Thai, the Vietnamese cuisine at Red Lantern in Sydney and Pho Dzung in Melbourne, the Cantonese food at Flower Drum, the Malaysian food at the various Chinta Ria outlets and the Southern Indian food at Nilgiri's).

However we do not do Mexican well! This also shows in the range of tequila available in this country. They are invariably the sub-$40 mass-produced rubbish that are used by youth to get drunk quickly. It is hard to find one of the ethereal aged tequilas that rank alongside cognacs and armagnacs in their complexity.

There is also a lack of southern US restaurants - although I don't see that as a problem having experienced Louisiana cooking over a 12 month period - it isn't a great cuisine despite the hype.

We seemed to have strayed from the Brit theme - but it has been interesting anyway!

[lamington]

I had intended to apologise for slightly diverting the thread Roger! ... Unfortunately I can't add wisdom to the issue of British chefs, although I wonder if the two-way traffic UK-Aus means there *must* be a tangible effect... (but the Melbourne-related idea you mention sounds plausible).

[jango]

No, no - my fault for leaping off into a tangent. Sorry. I will revisit your topic when I've eaten more at places headed by Brits. I've heard that Circa (Michael Lambie) puts on a great brekky. True?

Yes, the country has amazing Asian food. The general availability of many esoteric ingredients is astonishing as well. Tamarind and fresh banana leaves in every dingbat corner store...marvellous.

I agree with you on Southern USA food. But Southwestern food is a completely different story. I think it's a cuisine just waiting to explode here. I shall patiently wait and start growing the peppers in anticipation.

Thanks for mentioning all those restaurants, Roger.

[Maliaty]

Hello

Just on the good Mexican side - Vera Cruz in Cremorne, Sydney is worth checking out - as was Rattlesnake Grill in Neutral Bay, Sydney (although it recently changed owners). There is also now the slightly more pricey side - Wildfire on the quay in the CBD of Sydney.

But by all means, the more good Mexican / Southwestern the better!

Cheers

Maliary

[bourdain]

Could it be that the contribution of the British chefs has held back innovation and the embracing of Asian flavours that typifies Sydney?

I must admit that most of their contributions leave me wondering what all the fuss is about.

" Held back"? "Held back"?

Truly one of the sillier posts.

[phobo]

QUOTE (Roger McShane @ Jun 8 2003, 04:08 AM)

Could it be that the contribution of the British chefs has held back innovation and the embracing of Asian flavours that typifies Sydney?

I must admit that most of their contributions leave me wondering what all the fuss is about.

" Held back"? "Held back"?

Truly one of the sillier posts.

I suggest that the proliferation of Mod-Asian style restaurants in Sydney has been a progression spurned by chefs who are or were based in Sydney in the 80s and 90s, such as Neil Perry(WOckpool, XO), David Thompson(Sailors Thai, Nahm in London) and Kylie Kwong(Billy Kwong). I doubt that Brittish chefs have done anything to Australian cuisine other than bring experience, skill and diversity to enhance what already existed.

[phobo]

Sorry about botching the quotation thing, I'm new here....

[Shinboners]

Two years down the track, and it's probably worthwhile to revisit this topic.

In Melbourne, there seem to be more British (and British trained) chefs than ever. Added to that, Melbourne has well and truly embraced the Gastropub phenomenon.

So, has it been a good thing? From a Melbourne dining perspective, I think it has. Certainly, some of the finest food in Melbourne can be found under chefs like Michael Lambie (ironically, with an eye to an earlier post, his food has a distinct Asian influence), Shannon Bennett, and Robin Wickens.

The gastropubs have been an interesting development. You can get some very good value food. Whether or not the chefs have been to Britain, the influence from overseas can be felt. With the steady decline in the top of the range fine dining over the past decade, a new sector in the market has opened and these places fill it. Financially, it makes sense with the public bar helping to offset the costs of running the dining room.

[PCL]

Mr VdM isn't a pom is he? I mean, he worked there then came home right?...

[Shalmanese]

I think the rather obvious reason why there are few mexican/SW American restuarants here is because (duh!) there aren't too many mexicans or SW Americans here. Mexicans tend to immigrate to the US and not to Australia and the Americans who immigrate here are largely white collar professionals, not chefs.

I don't see this changing much in the future.

[Shinboners]

Mr VdM isn't a pom is he? I mean, he worked there then came home right?...

←

Yeah. I forgot to add, "British trained chefs". He did stints under John Burton Race and Marco Pierre White.

[PCL]

Au Contraire, Shal-man

There are quite a number of Sth Americans in our fair land, but not many of them have the resources to start up their own businesses. Like, there's quite a decently sized Chilean population, and judging from the Hispanic Fiesta in Melbourne, there's enough of them to warrant their own festival. However, I think it's only a matter of time before we start seeing more of their influences in mainstream dining. For example in Adelaide, there's the great Gaucho's on Gouger St, serving up Argentinian/South American goodies.

But back on track re: British born/trained cookies in Australia... there were heaps of them at the charity soccer tournament over the weekend... VdM, Circa... yeah, there were a few, no doubt quite a number due to relaxed working holiday visa requirements.

[loiosh]

I think the rather obvious reason why there are few mexican/SW American restuarants here is because (duh!) there aren't too many mexicans or SW Americans here. Mexicans tend to immigrate to the US and not to Australia and the Americans who immigrate here are largely white collar professionals, not chefs.

I don't see this changing much in the future.

←

I think there's also a bit of a catch-22 here in that since the existing supply is crap, there's not a lot of demand because it conditions people to think that Mexican food is crap. So there's not sufficient additional demand for new places to open up which are any good.

I'd be happy with having at least decent renditions of heavily Americanized Mexican, or some California Mexican with the big burritos and so on. I'm still sad about the time I ordered nachos and they came out with sweet chili sauce and kidney beans. Also, it would be really, really nice if restaurant owners were less cheap about making margaritas with lime -- I just don't think they're very good when made with lemons.

[Shalmanese]

South Americans yes, Mexicans & Americans, no. Theres a mexican place down the road from us that seems fairly decent and authentic. I probably should go back some time but we seem to never be in the mood for mexican.

[Syrah]

Woops double.

Edited December 5, 2005 by Syrah (log)

[Syrah]

South Americans yes, Mexicans & Americans, no. Theres a mexican place down the road from us that seems fairly decent and authentic. I probably should go back some time but we seem to never be in the mood for mexican.

←

There's one in North Sydney that is quite good. I think they describe it as Californian Mexican. Not entirely sure what that means though.