tiramisu

[gfron1]

I made raw egg tiramisu last week at my store and (besides the dozen people who bought it knowing it had raw egg) my spouse and staff flipped out. So that got me thinking of a solution that I haven't seen anywhere but surely its not a new solution. Why not boil simple syrup and incorporate into the yolks and also the whites (Italian meringue). It could be done in proportions that don't make things overly sweet, but would certainly address the safety issues. It also has promise for flavor play. The meringue would also really offer a knock-out texture. Has anyone done this before?

[pastrymama]

I have always made my mousses with cooked syrup with the yolks and whites. I never could stand the thought of raw eggs and did not want to give anything questionable to my customers.

[Tri2Cook]

I used to Swiss meringue-itize the yolks (heat 'em over hot water with part of the sugar) and also make a Swiss meringue with the whites and remaining sugar but I haven't been able to dig up any evidence that it was actually any safer. I don't think the heat level involved is enough to kill the nasty critters. I don't know if that's the case with Italian meringue either, never actually stuck a thermometer in there after adding the syrup. Maybe I should. The only way I ever felt completely sure the yolks were taken to a safe temp (other than using pasteurized eggs) was by custardizing them with part of the sugar and a little milk (which does effect the texture of the end result a bit but not by much).

There's a ratio of egg-water-acid that allows eggs to be carefully heated above 150 f. without thickening them and a ph threshold that makes life for the little nasties pretty much impossible but I don't think that would help much in a tiramisu (unless you were doing a citrus version maybe).

[Kerry Beal]

Sounds like the base for my buttercream. I take whole eggs and yolks, then I beat in 240º F syrup.

For my tiramisu I beat the eggs and sugar in the kitchen aid until they are light and fluffy, then I pour boiling water in to the water jacket and continue to beat. Not quite sure how warm it gets, but it does cook the eggs and they still remain fluffy.

[shaloop]

I've seen recipes where the yolks and sugar are whisked over a bain marie as if making zabaglione (sp?) and actually cooked to 160 before continuing on. Haven't tried it though so can't say how well it works.

[gfron1]

I did finally try it and I liked the recipe even more. I didn't really use a recipe, rather just poured my boiling sugar into the yolks and then the whites and whipped. The tiramisu were obviously sweeter than normal which is good to my mouth, but none of my customers complained either. I expected a texture improvement which I didn't experience, but I'm going to play some more and see if I can't get that as well. So it was a win-win and now the spouse won't pester me about this any more

[Linzerbear]

I have made tiramisu for years, and just whip the raw egg yolks and sugar together on the mixer, if my food science skills remain intact, i believe that the sugar chemically cooks the egg yolks as they whip. Like when sugar and egg yolks just sit together without mixing the sugar will "cook" the yolks and you will get lumps of scrambled looking egg yolk.

I have never had anyone ever get sick from eating tiramisu made this way.

Just my thoughts

[sugarseattle]

i just did a google for egg safety and that whole eggs without added ingredients are pasteurized but not cooked by bringing them to 140°F and maintaining that temperature for 3 and 1/2 minutes.

If the eggs are to be used in a recipe, the mixture should be cooked to 160°F, which will destroy harmful bacteria in a few seconds.

I talked to my health inspector, and he said that if you add hot syrup to an egg mixture, you will not necessarily bring the eggs to adequate temperature to destroy harmful bacteria. However, I've done a safe meringue by heating whites & sugar over a bain marie and maintaining 160 for several minutes. MOstly I just do this for the stability it offers the meringue.

Personally, I'm not afraid of unpasteurized eggs, but like to be safe and always use pasteurized egg products when I'm selling to the public...not everybody is blessed with a rock solid gut like myself. Also, my health inspector did mention that the risk of salmonella is very low, but it is out there.

Edited June 22, 2008 by sugarseattle (log)

[gfron1]

Thanks for that info Stephanie.

[Sentiamo]

I am assuming that everyone concerned about using raw eggs in Tiramisu do NOT eat homemade mayo either??

I use the raw egg method and always have a sign beside the dish saying it contains uncooked eggs. I would advise pregnant women and anybody with a compromised immune sysyem to take no chances but for the rest of us....go for it I say!

[gfron1]

I've been doing the Italian meringue method for a few weeks now. I'm not as concerned about the safety issue so much as the textural improvement. I did a demo on my blog HERE. I think its an improvement, so here ya go!