Value in Dining: London vs. NYC

[mogsob]

Inspired by the recent debate in the London Newbie thread, we went to Roussillon on Saturday night with an eye equally on the plate and the wallet. Since our last visit, Roussillon has changed its menu slightly, now only expressly offering three courses at 39 pounds. We ordered an additional fourth course for an additional 7 pounds, but it was not clear whether the additional price was standard (we ordered an additional asparagus dish). Here is what we ate:

Starters: White asparagus and morels in veal jus reduction; spring truffle risotto. The white asparagus was a bit bitter, but the morels were HUGE and the sauce very fine. The risotto was superb, as usual, and props for not charging extra for the dish.

Extra course: Green asparagus and morels in veal jus reduction. Superb. We wanted to see the contrast between the two dishes. The green won hands down.

Mains: Dorset spring lamb with garlic crust. Excellent. The lamb was deeply flavored and had a wonderful texture. The sauce, as always, was understated but very fine.

Dessert: Bitter orange souffle; rum baba with a selection of aged rums. I didn't try the souffle, as I was engrossed in the rum. The baba was very light, but really not my thing so I won't comment any more here. The selection of rums were great. I never heard of any of them, but I might consider rum over brandy as the summer goes on. Very fine spirits indeed.

Wine: Domaine Piquemal Cotes du Roussillon Villages 2000. 34 pounds. A glass of Gaillac Doux 9 pounds. Two glasses of house rose champagne 20 pounds.

Total Bill: 150 pounds.

I would be hard pressed to find a comparable meal in NYC at this price. Restaurants like Cafe Boulud and Gramercy Tavern come closest -- good value fine dining in a slightly relaxed atmosphere. But for the wines, Roussillon was by far the better value. Speaking of wine, while the champagne was very good, 10 pounds a glass is very steep. I would expect to pay 10 euros or 10 dollars, which makes Roussillon 60% more expensive on that account. Ditto for the dessert wine. But the real culprit was the Cotes du Roussillon. I found the bottle online for 5.99 pounds. It was an exellent bottle (sommelier's choice) -- reminded me of the better Coteaux du Languedocs -- and worth the cost based on quality alone. But the markup in real world terms was outrageous.

NB: Roussillon is actively seeking its second Michelin star. From my point of view, their food is already there, and has been for some time. They are making subtle changes to the restaurant at the behest of Michelin (no more photos of their hotel in the Isle of Wright in the restrooms, more servers on the floor, etc.) and I think they are only a year or two away from realizing their ambitions. Get there now while the getting is good.

Edited April 15, 2003 by mogsob (log)

[mogsob]

For those interested, Roussillon is hosting a dinner with Domaine Piquemal, one of the best producers in the Roussillon region. Here is the menu:

Aperitif -- Rivesaltes Ambre 1985

Course 1 -- Roasted Dublin Bay prawns, Kentish herbs, purple basil and crustacean dressing. Muscat sec, Vin de Pays des Cotes Catalanes 2002.

Course 2 -- Slowly cooked cut of halibut, lightly creamed morels and brown butter. Cotes du Roussillon Blanc "Les Terres Grillees" 2001.

Course 3 -- Wild garlic crusted fillet of lamb, spring vegetable gratin with fresh thyme, lamb jus. Cotes du Roussillon Villages "Eleve en futs de chene" 2002.

Course 4 -- Almond "Calisson", preserved fruts and vegetables, carrot arromatic jus. Muscat de Rivesaltes "Coup de Foudre" 1999.

Filter coffee & petit fours

68 pounds

[magnolia]

Wine:  Domaine Piquemal  Cotes du Roussillon Villages 2000.  34 pounds.  A glass of Gaillac Doux 9 pounds.  Two glasses of house rose champagne 20 pounds.

Total Bill: 150 pounds.

...But for the wines, Roussillon was by far the better value.  Speaking of wine, while the champagne was very good, 10 pounds a glass is very steep.  I would expect to pay 10 euros or 10 dollars, which makes Roussillon 60% more expensive on that account.  Ditto for the dessert wine.  But the real culprit was the Cotes du Roussillon.  I found the bottle online for 5.99 pounds.  It was an exellent bottle (sommelier's choice) -- reminded me of the better Coteaux du Languedocs -- and worth the cost based on quality alone.  But the markup in real world terms was outrageous....

Mogsob - Thanks for this review, I have been meaning to try Roussillon for awhile but it just got a dire review from Jan Moir, one of the few reviewers I trust, in the Sunday Telegraph (I can't find it on line though, it was in last Sunday's...April 12).

Also I'm a little confused, you mentioned that the wine list is good value at Roussillon but as you point out, the markups on everything you ordered were outrageous. What are the markups in NYC like?

Roussillon (the wine region) is indeed getting its act together and making some respectable wine, priced at the affordable end of the spectrum. So those prices do sound like they're doing a real disservice to the eponymous region. But Roussillon (the restaurant) is not the only culprit...many UK restaurants have appalling markups.

So...what on the Roussillon list would be good value?

[Simon Majumdar]

many UK restaurants have appalling markups.

They do, but this is not an example of how NY can offer better value than London ( an argument with which I have some agreement ) on my regular visits I have found the mark ups even at the low to mid level NY places to be increasingly pernicious. Two good examples were the disappointing UWS places Aix and Ouest, both of which had pretty overpriced selections

S

[mogsob]

Magnolia -- Sorry for the confusion. Roussillon's wine list is anything but a good value. Regarding the negative review, I did not see it and would be interested to hear the complaints, as in 6 or so visits over the last year, Roussillon proved to be exceptional in all respects and very consistent. I have taken some of the most demanding and difficult to please friends there, and they have all been as enthusiastic about Roussillon as I am. All in all, Roussillon provides extremely good value, although I wince every time I look at the wine list.

Simon -- NYC restaurants tend to mark up heavily on the cheap and very expensive side. Most $20-$30 bottles on a NY wine list generally represent very poor value, as do many of the top end wines in some restaurants. But I generally can find a good value (100% or less markup) somewhere in the middle range ($50-90 on the list). That middle to high end "bargain" is notably lacking on many London wine lists. Indeed, if I recall correctly, Ouest had two very good values on their list: an Amarone and a Kracher dessert wine.

[mogsob]

Mogsob - Thanks for this review, I have been meaning to try Roussillon for awhile but it just got a dire review from Jan Moir, one of the few reviewers I trust, in the Sunday Telegraph (I can't find it on line though, it was in last Sunday's...April 12).

[magnolia]

I'm yet more intrigued, and still want to try it. Do you think it would be good for a birthday celebration? Or is it to business-y?

[mogsob]

Definately not business-y, although not exactly celebratory either. Roussillon is very sedate (a friend called its atmosphere "boring Californian"). It also tends to be half-empty at any time. But I like quiet restaurants, so that's ok by me.