The Kimchi Topic

[SheenaGreena]

My favorite definitely has to be ponytail radish kimchi (Ch'ongak kimchi) . I like it better than Ggaktugi because I love eating the radish tops.

Other favorites include a mul kimchi made with purple cabbage (my favorite growing up) and my mom's signature garlic chive kimchi with lots of fish sauce.

The wonderful thing about kimchi is that it can be made with ANYTHING. My mother's korean friend even makes a papaya kimchi which is really really good. I bet even watermelon rinds would be good in a kimchi!!!

[_john]

The wonderful thing about kimchi is that it can be made with ANYTHING.  My mother's korean friend even makes a papaya kimchi which is really really good.  I bet even watermelon rinds would be good in a kimchi!!!

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This is one of my favorite things about kimchi too. kimchi and bbanchan are wonderfully creative things. Radish leaf kimchi is especially delicious. I will be posting some new experiments soon ... with fruit! The goya kimchi is coming along well, the flavor is very nice, bitter, hot, sweet.

I would like some advice from other people who make kimchi at home. My kimchis seem to become more and more watery as they ferment. This seems to dilute the flavor but also spreads the lactic acid flavor. Other kimchis I have had have not been nearly as watery. Am I adding too much salt?

[melonpan]

i dont make kimchi, but i think that watery is good. and sour is good.

you want watery tangy gukmul (kimchi water).

i feel that if you work on preventing it, you arent making kimchi.

[melonpan]

again, ill say that i dont make kimchi, but i wanted to ask, when you taste the kimchi that you are making, does it taste salty? it shouldnt be overly salty. if it doesnt taste salty then maybe it is something else you need to tweak to make it turn out the way you want.

[jschyun]

I know what he's talking about. This happens with beginner kimchi makers who don't have someone to guide them. I remember I had one batch turn out exceptionally watery. Hmm, all I can say is just keep practicing because you'll get better. If I get a chance to make some kimchi in the future (not now) maybe I'll have smoe more helpful advice cause right now my brain is fried.

[SheenaGreena]

I would like some advice from other people who make kimchi at home. My kimchis seem to become more and more watery as they ferment. This seems to dilute the flavor but also spreads the lactic acid flavor. Other kimchis I have had have not been nearly as watery. Am I adding too much salt?

After you heavily salt the veggies/fruit are you rinsing off as much salt as possible? Maybe it would help to delicately squeeze them with your hands or a hand towel.

[jschyun]

Wait, which kimchi are you having trouble with? My problem was with kkagtugi for some reason and I fixed it somehow but I'm not sure if it's because i changed the recipe or because I just got better.

[_john]

Both my green onion kimchi and bitter melon kimchi were fine for about a week but then they became watery. Because I make small batches I usually do not follow a recipe, I just follow the kimchi "procedure".

This has reminded me of a second question. Which kimchis do you use fermented fish products in? I have seen small fermented shrimp used in regular cabbage kimchi, but not in others. Other recipes I have seen call for "fish sauce". I have never used these ingredients in my kimchis and they have tasted fine.

[SheenaGreena]

This has reminded me of a second question. Which kimchis do you use fermented fish products in? I have seen small fermented shrimp used in regular cabbage kimchi, but not in others. Other recipes I have seen call for "fish sauce". I have never used these ingredients in my kimchis and they have tasted fine.

That is a good question, and to be honest with you I have no clue! I love kimchis with fish sauce in them though. I think it adds a really nice round and complex flavor. Vietnamese fish sauce - I believe the 3 crabs brand - is great in garlic chive kimchi

[melonpan]

koreans dont really use a fish sauce that is like vietnamese fish sauce. rather they use something called jeot which can be made from a number of things, but usually from shrimps or oysters that are brined (sae-u jeot and gul-jeot)... i have also seen squids added to kimchi although i do not think it was in a jeot form but i could be wrong on that particular point.

maybe jschyun knows a bit better than i do about this stuff.

still, the point is, that the fish sauce used its not a liquidy thing like nuoc nam or nam pla. you can actually see whole (baby) shrimps and oysters.

that is not to say that nuoc nam wouldnt work. im sure it must have been tried in the past. i wonder how it tasted. sheena greena do you make it often with nuoc nam? do you often cook korean food with nuoc nam? i made a search and see that sometimes people make jjigae with it... interesting. but new to me.

[chefzadi]

My MIL brought a fish sauce from the country with her. It is pretty thick and did not have little fish or seafood things in it. It's not a common thing, the consistency is different, but fish sauce does exist in Korean cooking.

[melonpan]

My MIL brought a fish sauce from the country with her. It is pretty thick and did not have little fish or seafood things in it. It's not a common thing, the consistency is different, but fish sauce does exist in Korean cooking.

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wah, really? is it dark? is it pungent? can you describe how it tastes? how do you use it? in kimchi? jjigae?

[SheenaGreena]

melonpan, I barely cook any Korean food...its just too intimidating. I just love eating it and talking about it. My mother started using vietnamese fish sauce in only the garlic chive kimchi a year or two ago. I don't know what made her use it because she knows nothing about vietnamese food. You are right about the small shrimps. She usually uses that in her cabbage kimchi

I guess the vietnamese fish sauce is an multi cultural adaptation to kimchi

[chefzadi]

My MIL brought a fish sauce from the country with her. It is pretty thick and did not have little fish or seafood things in it. It's not a common thing, the consistency is different, but fish sauce does exist in Korean cooking.

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wah, really? is it dark? is it pungent? can you describe how it tastes? how do you use it? in kimchi? jjigae?

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There's some post here by touaregsand about it. She has some photo of it somewhere. I can't find it.

[Soup]

As stated previously by others, the fish "sauce" is very different for the korean version used in kimchi and the viet. or thai version.

I love kimchi and my 4 year old has really taken to it. we do wash some in for him in waters others we serve straight. My fav. actually changes from season to season and also depends on the meal. Now I do not keep more than 2 type of kimchi in the house. We don't have a kimchi refridgerator nor do we go through it fast enough so two variety is all about the max. I do however, rotate on the ones I buy (I don't make kimchi, other than mul kimchi which I still suck at).

I do really love the kimchi made with oyster jut though. Shrimp jut also gives kimchi a different flavor. And finding hunks of raw oysters between kimchi, well thats just the cherry on top.

[chefzadi]

Um, this is what I'm talking about Korean fish sauce called ack-jeot .

I just had the wife verify again to be sure. It is indeed filtered, does not have bits of fish in it and MIL says it is like the better homemade fish sauces from Southeast Asia.

EDIT: The link is to something by Ewha Women's University and it states that fish sauce is traditional for kimchi and it is indeed clarified.

Edited April 24, 2006 by chefzadi (log)

[jschyun]

Yeah my mom uses kkanari aekjut (fermented lancefish sauce) for some kimchis. Actually is very similar to nuoc mam in every respect except it smells worse. I never have tried using it though but my mom's kimchi is awesome so I suppose I should get my ass in gear and start using it cause I've only ever tried oysters and seujeot (brined shirmp) and my kimchi is alright but not as good.

Skchai had a good recipe that required no fermented fish products. I don't remember where it is though, argh.

As for the wateriness problem, I started thinking about my kimchi problems and I have no idea why it would happen with the green onion kimchi but it could be that goya, like cucumbers, is mostly water. Thus, maybe if you stufed the goya as in stuffed cucumber kimchi, there's less surface area and it won't get watery as easily over time. It's only an issue if you don't eat it right away, right? Also, I make sure that after washing I dry my veggies pretty throoughly but i'm sure you're doing that. I could be wrong but I don't think adding a slurry would answer your probs because that just adds more water. Not sure if that helps but good luck anyhow.

[melonpan]

hmm. okay. found something. just hadn't crossed paths with it yet.

"aeg-jeos" or aekjeot

<a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=%EC%95%A1%EC%A0%93&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=iw">액젓</a>, <a href="http://www.well-beingnow.co.kr/aceimage/0283.gif">pic of anchovy aekjeot</a> and <a href="http://img.emart.co.kr/front/WebRoot/uploadImg/itemImg/17/8803931810517_350_b.jpg">shrimp aekjeot</a>

maybe it is the same stuff as regular jeot but just strained, clarified? not much different than jeot?

[jschyun]

pretty much the same, definitely same function in kimchi.

I like the brined shimp on eggs tho. I also have a hard time with oysters cause i love those fried and raw.

Edited April 24, 2006 by jschyun (log)

[chefzadi]

hmm.  okay.  found something.  just hadn't crossed paths with it yet.

"aeg-jeos" or aekjeot

<a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=%EC%95%A1%EC%A0%93&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=iw">액젓</a>, <a href="http://www.well-beingnow.co.kr/aceimage/0283.gif">pic of anchovy aekjeot</a> and <a href="http://img.emart.co.kr/front/WebRoot/uploadImg/itemImg/17/8803931810517_350_b.jpg">shrimp aekjeot</a>

maybe it is the same stuff as regular jeot but just strained, clarified?  not much different than jeot?

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MIL says "yeh nal, yeh nal eh" (however you transliterate that) it just wasn't that common, so yeah, it's possible that some people just don't know about it according to her. I don't really have the time to post her lenghty description of how it's made, sorry.

She says it's the best for kimchi as far as she's concerned. And she does it use it to season soups and stews too.

As for commercial brands, get this, she prefers the three crabs brand to the Korean brands.

That's it for me on this topic. It's too hard posting information from other folks. My Franglish and their Konglish. It's too much for me.

[jschyun]

yetnal, yetnaleh means "back in the olden days" or somethihng like that.

Actually i never heard about this fish sauce stuff until my ma said something about it one day. I think she read about it somewhere a while back. I'm not convinced it's totally necessary for excellent kimchi in general but I think it tastes pretty good in cabbage kimchi.

I tink she might add this stuff when making the soup stock for dduk guk (rice cake soup) as well but I'll have to doublecheck to make sure. When she serves the soup, she puts sliced sauteed shitake mushrooms on top, with some chopped green onions, egg threads and i forget what else. I like the taste of the mushrooms with that soup, it's really good. You can use dried mushrooms which are cheaper

[jschyun]

I do really love the kimchi made with oyster jut though.  Shrimp jut also gives kimchi a different flavor.  And finding hunks of raw oysters between kimchi, well thats just the cherry on top.

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Amen

[chefzadi]

yetnal, yetnaleh means "back in the olden days" or somethihng like that.

Actually i never heard about this fish sauce stuff until my ma said something about it one day.  I think she read about it somewhere a while back.  I'm not convinced it's totally necessary for excellent kimchi in general but I think it tastes pretty good in cabbage kimchi. 

I tink she might add this stuff when making the soup stock for dduk guk (rice cake soup) as well but I'll have to doublecheck to make sure.  When she serves the soup, she puts sliced sauteed shitake mushrooms on top, with some chopped green onions, egg threads and i forget what else.  I like the taste of the mushrooms with that soup, it's really good.  You can use dried mushrooms which are cheaper

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Okay, so I said my previous post would be my last. This one really is. Um, the commercial stuff is different from the homemade stuff my MIL uses. Have you tried the homemade stuff? Or are you talking about the commercial?

My MIL's family made it when she was a little girl and when she can she gets the stuff from the country (shi-gol).

EDIT: "Best" according to my MIL. I doubt she cares if anyone agrees and is not trying to convince anyone. Just a preference of hers I'm passing on.

Edited April 24, 2006 by chefzadi (log)

[melonpan]

Um, the commercial stuff is different from the homemade stuff my MIL uses. Have you tried the homemade stuff? Or are you talking about the commercial?

My MIL's family made it when she was a little girl and when she can she gets the stuff from the country (shi-gol).

EDIT: "Best" according to my MIL. I doubt she cares if anyone agrees and is not trying to convince anyone. Just a preference of hers I'm passing on.

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i wonder what your mil is saying. i mean its one thing to say that homemade stuff is better than commercial stuff (so so true of so many things today), but is it really different? im not trying to be difficult esp since youre having difficulties with translating between us and your wife but i am just curious since i dont know anything about aekjeot.

is there some sort of consensus as to what aekjeot is? is it simply seafood jeot that is strained? is this what the homemade stuff is, and is this what people expect commercial stuff to be?

anyway, i dont expect an answer (i will leave you in peace, chef zadi! ). i just wanted to put this out there.

lastly:

has anyone ever put bagoong in their kimchi and korean soups?

[jschyun]

My mom uses a commercial brand ("100% Korean Lancefish!") but don't worry, I'm sure chefzadi's MIL's homemade stuff is better.