Thick Cut Pork Chops - Sous Vide

[pbear]

Given that the door of home fridges is opening often, their temperatures tend to be high ... always keep a digital fridge thermometer

 

Quoted for emphasis.  This is a very good idea for all food safety purposes, not just cook-chill sous vide.  I've tried several and particularly like this one.

[JoNorvelleWalker]

[paulraphael]

Also, for inmuno-competent people, a milder form of pasteurization can be used with a reduced conservation time. Baldwin proposes a 3D core reduction in Salmonella, fast chilling, refrigerating to <5ºC and consuming in less than 5 days.

 

I'd like to see more investigations along these lines. It makes perfect sense. The simplified instructions we get give the impression that if you don't reach the magical pasteurization time, yer gonna die. When in fact the pathogens have been reduced, unless you're using unusually low cooking temperatures; just not to the somewhat arbitrary 6D level. 

 

And 6D IS somewhat arbitrary. Consider that this standard about the reduction from the pre-existing pathogen levels on the uncooked food. But we never know what those pre-existing levels are. It's quite possible that they vary by orders of magnitude, depending on source, age, storage conditions, and god-knows-what.

Edited July 23, 2015 by paulraphael (log)

[EnriqueB]

I'd like to see more investigations along these lines. It makes perfect sense. The simplified instructions we get give the impression that if you don't reach the magical pasteurization time, yer gonna die. When in fact the pathogens have been reduced, unless you're using unusually low cooking temperatures; just not to the somewhat arbitrary 6D level. 

 

And 6D IS somewhat arbitrary. Consider that this standard about the reduction from the pre-existing pathogen levels on the uncooked food. But we never know what those pre-existing levels are. It's quite possible that they vary by orders of magnitude, depending on source, age, storage conditions, and god-knows-what.

 

I would not call it "arbitrary", but rather a consensus based on research that provides conservative values than ensure safety for most of the population in worst-case scenarios. And that is what I expect from food safety regulations.

 

Once we know that, we may decide -with good reason- that all people we are serving are healthy (immuno-competent), that our food is from trusted sources, that we use secondary safety measures such as salt levels, acids, searing, etc. We understand the logic behind and make our risk choices. But I am afraid when I read practices or recommendations on a forum like this that totally break those rules without any further explanation. Someone could follow them without the understanding and have dangerous consequences.

 

I totally agree that many people get a wrong "binary" impression of safety, i.e. pasteurized to 6D = safe, otherwise you die, but it is rather a continuous change (on a given temperature/time range) and a given threshold like 6D is just a worst-case consensus. This is something I repeat a lot on the courses I teach.

Edited July 24, 2015 by EnriqueB (log)

[Tatoosh]

Wow! What a great conversation.  To start with, I've been totally oblivious of B Cereus.  And living in the Philippines, I darn well should be conversant.  Rice is cooked and left unrefrigerated here all the time.  And I mean *all the time* by the vast majority of the population.  I don't know what their defense mechanism is, if there is one, but given the frequency of it, something must be a play that inhibits B. Cereus from whacking folks here. 

As a member of the "at risk" group, both by age and health condition, I'm very mindful of the food safety aspect.  But I've been less than aware of protecting my spices. Which are usually packaged or bagged and stored in tubs away from the sunlight, while some that are in bulk are kept in my 2nd refrigerator that is used for curing bacon and pastrami.  Now, I will have to think about how to protect spices.  

pbear, thank you for the link on the refrigerator thermometer.  I have a couple I've bought that died.  Very frustrating that.  I expect to get another one, but am thinking I would get a data logging version.  While walking past and catching it being out of temp is good, I'd like to be able to check the history when I wasn't around.  Unfortunately, those seem to be a fair amount more expensive.  But I will likely pop for it when I have the spare change.  

[paulraphael]

I would not call it "arbitrary", but rather a consensus based on research that provides conservative values than ensure safety for most of the population in worst-case scenarios. And that is what I expect from food safety regulations.

 

You're right, "arbitrary" isn't exactly right ... what I mean is that the guidelines are based on estimates, based on probabilities that involve very high standard deviations. Not just in what bacterial load will make someone sick, but in what bacterial load a piece of food will carry before cooking. 

 

I think it's helpful to consider both variables ... and it would be great if we had better tools for estimating them.

[Chimo]

I see you "cheaped out".

[paulraphael]

Jo has all the best toys.