Steamers & Steaming

[andiesenji]

Black & Decker used to make an oval crockpot/steamer combinaton. I don't know if it is still available.

It had the standard crockpot bottom with a lid and also a plastic top section with perforated bottom that could be used for steaming rice, potatoes, vegetables, etc., while something else such as chicken or stew or ???? cooked in the bottom.

It was not meant to be a very rapid process as one would usually expect in a steamer.

It did cook at a higher temperature than regular crockpots.

[Tepee]

Tepee:  What is a thermal pot?  I haven't seen one before.  How does it work?  Is it electric?  You just heat up the termal pot to an initial boil for the ingredients for the first half an hour, then switch it off and let rest continue to heat in residual heat?

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Thermal pots are a big thing in Taiwan....apparently each household has more than one. Mine is from Taiwan; it can hold high heat (heat last attained from cooking) for 8 hours, after which the heat slowly dissipates.

It's not electrical; saves power with less cooking and no electricity worries if you have to leave it unattended.

Basically, it's a high-quality stainless steel pot which you take out to do your cooking, after which you transfer to the insulated container. Apparently, the brand I have is one of the best, the cooking in the pot can reach a very high heat.

I really love it. *cough* I use to have incidences where I forget to watch over a soup or rice porridge, and I end up with a dry pot or burnt porridge. No more.

Great for stews and sweet soups too. You cook the food for, say, 30 minutes recommended for chicken, sweet soup just 10 minutes, then transfer to the pot. The end results are beautiful. Everything is nicely soft and juicy. If you don't want the meat to be too soft, just remove it earlier.

You can use it for cold purposes too. For parties, since I don't have an ice-machine in my fridge, I keep ice in there.

It's very mobile.

Make your life easier. Get one now!

Do I sound like an advertisement or what?

Edited September 24, 2005 by Tepee (log)

[hzrt8w]

....It's very mobile.

Make your life easier. Get one now!

Do I sound like an advertisement or what?

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Thanks for the info. You did sound like the sales agent of the product.

Sounds very interesting. (But I am just looking, sorry...) DW kept saying I have too many kitchen gadgets at home. (But aren't men supposed to be lovers of gadgets? ) I am trying to get by with the minimal. I will make her watch the fire!

[helenjp]

Ihave used the crock pot but in some cases a rice cooker (which seems to produce a slightly higher heat) works better to steam things.

[Big Bunny]

How long did you cook your sweet soup? Did you pre-soak your fungus?

...

I was also pondering over what you meant by steaming without a lid?

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OT, but these days, I use less of my crock pot, favoring my thermal pot.

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I did soak the fungus, then cooked it for 2 hours, as specified in the recipe. Apparently the crock pot is "gentler" than steaming.

Please forgive my vagueness. By "without a lid" I meant those dishes steamed in an open bowl, where the steam goes up and over the food. Of course there is a lid on the steamer. It seems to me that the crock pot would be more appropriate for things that are steamed in a covered bowl. I used a little, one quart crock pot.

Thanks for the tip about the thermal pot. I have used a traditional steamer for years, but the crock pots are a "new toy." I love the braised/steamed pork dishes in Wei-Chuan's "Shanghai Style" book, but rarely have time to tend the steamer for two or three hours.

BB

[Tepee]

...It seems to me that the crock pot would be more appropriate for things that are steamed in a covered bowl. I used a little, one quart crock pot.

BB (may I call you that?), that sounds very much like double-boil to me. I do that for individual herbal soups, er hem...soups to rejuvenate after a certain time of month. I've 3 crock-pots, one for little bear, one for mother bear and one for father bear, for different uses.

Thanks for the tip about the thermal pot....

BB

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You're welcome.

[Big Bunny]

Yesterday I did the same soup for 3 hours on high. That works well - I got the nice gelatinous texture I wanted from the fungus. This is an excellent dish, considering how simple it is.

I plan to experiment with some of the Shanghai pork recipes soon, but right now I am busy exploring "Land of Plenty."

BB

[Tepee]

Glad to hear the success story, BB! And, eating the white/silver fungus is good for you. Just remember to get those which are unbleached.

Edited September 26, 2005 by Tepee (log)

[Ben Hong]

Hmmm...learn something new everyday. I would have thought that a crock pot or slow cooker would not be hot enought to create the lively steam that one needs in normal steaming.

[Big Bunny]

I would have thought that a crock pot or slow cooker would not be hot enought to create the lively steam that one needs in normal steaming.

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Hi, Ben!

The little crockpot I have holds 1.5 quarts and has a "high" and a "low" setting. On the high setting I get a mild simmer - I don't know the temperature of the low setting.

The simmer was great for the fungus, but my guess is that pork belly would cook better on the low setting. This would probably take much longer than steaming, but would have the advantage of not needing attention for three hours. My bet is that dishes like belly in soy sauce, sugar and chestnuts might even be better with this longer process.

When I have had a chance to try I'll report back.

BB

[Ben Hong]

Are you actually steaming or just simmering?

[Big Bunny]

When I steam these dishes, I use a sealed stainless container with a clamp-on lid. The food cooks perfectly, even though no steam gets into the food itself.

I think that the small crock pot would give very similar results because the lack of steam is not of consequence. It would be interesting to know exactly what the temperature inside the sealed container is. It must be less than 212 degrees, because I have never experienced any pressure release when I open the lid.

BB

[hzrt8w]

I think that makes sense. The essence of the conventional Chinese double-steaming method, dun in Cantonese, is to slow-cook the ingredients. We use steam to cook the ingredients instead of open fire so that the temperature will be at a constant 100C (212F) or below.

I think using a crock-pot set at low setting would achieve a very similar effect.

(edited spelling)

Edited September 26, 2005 by hzrt8w (log)

[Big Bunny]

Over the years, as I have studied Chinese cooking, I have tried to "pick up" as much vocabulary as possible. Because I am always trying some new cuisine, I forget what I have learned about each cuisine as I immerse myself in the next.

I will now try to remember "dun" and "zheng." As many times as I have done them both, you would think I could remember the words by now.

So, stated more clearly, a small crock pot is probably a good tool for "dun", but not as good for "zheng." Of course, there will be many experiments ahead. Mainly, I hope to try more of the long-steamed dishes that used to keep me trapped on weekend afternoons.

BB

[Chris Amirault]

I've enjoyed trying to replicate at home a dish that we enjoy at our favorite Chinese restaurant (Lucky Garden in North Providence RI): steamed scallops on tofu with black bean sauce. As a sauce base, I've been using something from Eileen Yin-Fei Lo, and I'm pretty happy with that, though I'd be happy if I could cut back on the corn starch. The other steps (pressing the tofu to release liquid, slicing the scallops in half on the bias, timing the steaming, pouring hot oil with sliced scallions over the top at service) I've got down pat.

Here's the problem: most of the time, a lot of steam condenses on the plate, substantially diluting the black bean sauce. Tonight, because I was running a bit late on other prep, I put the dish with the tofu and scallops into the fridge for 20 minutes -- a bad mistake: the cold plate made an astonishing amount of water condense very quickly. This made me think that I should be placing the tofu and scallops onto a hot plate to reduce condensation. Right?

But I've been wondering what else I can do to address this problem. In case details help, I have been using a heat-proof dinner plate for the dish, which sits on a raised rack in the bottom of a stainless steel stock pot. I've heard that bamboo steamers produce less condensation than metal (though I don't know why that would be: the cover, perhaps, doesn't drip?), but my steamers are too small for the normal dinner plates I use for this dish. Should I invest in a large one?

In short: help!

[debbster]

try putting a dish towel or a cheesecloth on top of the pot before putting the lid on. this will absorb the condensed water.

I've heard that bamboo steamers produce less condensation than metal (though I don't know why that would be: the cover, perhaps, doesn't drip?)

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this has been my experience, too. i think it's because a bamboo lid can absorb some moisture, but not all. if you're steaming a dish where you don't want any water to get in, you would still need to put a dish towel even if using a bamboo steamer.

also, i don't think a larger steamer will help. i sometimes use a big wok to steam something on a small dish and water still gets in.

hope this is helpful.

[Dejah]

Try covering the dish with plastic cling wrap before steaming. I do that when I'm making ham yu if I want to keep the air "fresh" in case we have visitors. I usually add a bit of liquid into the dish to keep the ingredients moist, or if I DO want some sauce.

[Dejah]

Chris:

When you say you use black bean sauce, do you mean a prepared BBS from a jar? I can see where that might be diluted with the steam. I always smash my own fermented black beans with garlic, ginger and a touch of soy sauce. It's more "solid" than sauce but when steamed, the moisture combines with the smashed ingredients and cornstarch to produce the desired sauce.

I wouldn't reduce the cornstarch because you might lose that silky texture. But then, I don't know how much cornstarch the recipe calls for.

Even covering the dish with just the bamboo steamer lid will reduce the excess drips.

Go to your local Asian store and buy the proper dishes for steaming. They look like pasta bowls and will fit in steamers better than dinner plates.The raised lips make removal easier also.

[Ben Hong]

Chris, a certain amount of free juice is not necessarily a bad thing. As kids we used to fight over the juice to pour on our rice, my kids were the same way.

Bamboo, by its very nature, does not create as much condensation as metal does. A bigger bamboo steamer will solve some of your problem. Dejah's solution of wrapping a dish will solve all of it.

[Chris Amirault]

Thanks for the responses! I definitely don't want to get rid of all liquid -- it's crucial to the dish, I think -- but just to make it less watery.

I hadn't heard of the dish towel trick, but it makes great sense, as does the plastic wrap. That last might work with the recipe for black bean sauce that I have been using (never from a can, Dejah! ), since it's pretty much liquid poured over the scallops. However, I'm leaning toward trying the dish towel and a drier "sauce" with mostly the beans, ginger, garlic, and a little dark soy.

Go to your local Asian store and buy the proper dishes for steaming. They look like pasta bowls and will fit in steamers better than dinner plates.The raised lips make removal easier also.

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Thanks -- I'll check it out. I do have one of those great tri-armed plate grabbers now, which works like a charm.

[Dejah]

.That last might work with the recipe for black bean sauce that I have been using (never from a can, Dejah! ), since it's pretty much liquid poured over the scallops. However, I'm leaning toward trying the dish towel and a drier "sauce" with mostly the beans, ginger, garlic, and a little dark soy.

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Chris,

I knew YOU wouldn't use a commercial sauce, but thought I'd throw that in just for anyone who might be reading the thread and DOES use prepared sauces.

I mean, really! You, the guy who cures his own lap yuk ...

[hzrt8w]

I usually invert a flat dish to place on top of the steaming dish to keep off the water condensation. It seems to work okay. Easier.

[hzrt8w]

Another possibility:

This technique is used often in Cantonese style fresh steamed seafood: put the black bean/garlic/ginger paste on top of the seafood either from the beginning or 5 minutes before serving. Before serving, simply drain away all the liquid (mostly steam condensation anyway). Then heat up a few table-spoonful of cooking oil til fuming. Pour on top of the black bean paste. Then dash in a few drops of light soy sauce. The light soy sauce and "cooked" oil mix in with the black bean sauce very well.

Also, sprinkle a few finely chopped green onions on top.