Where does all the 'Prime' meat go?

[rotuts]

a previous topic I started was about 'prime' ground beef, a new item in one of the supermarkets I go to. it came from a cryovaced shoulder large piece.

so where does all the rest of 'prime' meat go? in this age of economics and marketing, what happens to it?

we all know that Prime is: a grade based so they say on marbling in the meat itself independently from the rim fat.

we all know that about 20 years ago ( +/- ) the USDA changed the rules ( probably under Industry Pressure ) so that the Prime now is really Choice from years gone by.

as I understand it sides of beef are graded based on these standards. Peter Luger visits beef 'wherehouses' and selects the prime sides they buy and ages them

what happens to the non $$$$$ cuts of a non-aged prime side? Ive never seen marketed Prime Chuck as slabs of meat. No Prime Round. etc

does it go into the regular meat chain? ground up? cant seem to find any info on this.

a starting point is here:

http://culinaryarts.about.com/od/beefporkothermeats/qt/primebeef.htm

Edited May 25, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[FeChef]

What I find interesting is ive seen low end cuts labeled as select and choice, but ive never seen a bottom round, top round labeled as prime. Never seen a chuck roast labeled as prime either. My guess is large companys that make alot of "beef products get first pick at these prime grade cuts. Companys like Arbys or others that sell "formed beef".

[rotuts]

an older article from the WSJ:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204423804574286451880334042.html

it goes to reason that 'prime' round has to cost a little more than choice round. although what you say might be true, Im guessing that chains like Arbys etc are very sensitive to the bottom line as their margins must be quite small.

if they used 'prime' non $$$$ cuts in any of their products, they would mention it as a marketing ploy.

perhaps not.

doing a little Googling, internet/mail order meat markets that age their own prime do sell prime ( aged ) ground meat. hard to find Non-aged prime anywhere.

Edited May 25, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[ePressureCooker]

My sister has just started buying grass fed beef (that's essentially organic, but they can't label it as such because of the prohibitive cost of certification) by the 1/4 or 1/2 of the cow. Maybe that's how they're selling through the less desirable "prime" cuts - if its grass fed, just label it like that and make your money that way.

[rotuts]

there is a very high end ( for here ) butcher in my area:

http://johndewarinc.com/beef.html I used to 20 years ago get a 4 rib true prime standing rib roast from them for new years eve

Ill stop by and ask them next week

the non $$$$ prime cuts were never marketed as such as far as Ive seen until now locally.

[Twyst]

At my local butcher shop there is a big difference in price for prime vs choice on strips an ribeyes (over $16 per pound difference), yet for filet the difference is only in the $2-4 range as there really isnt that much more marbling in the prime filet than in the choice filet (because its a filet). I'm guessing that due to the nature of the roast cuts there isn't really a big enough difference to drive demand for a separate market for it so it al gets sold together.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Twyst (log)

[FeChef]

At my local butcher shop there is a big difference in price for prime vs choice on strips an ribeyes (over $16 per pound difference), yet for filet the difference is only in the $2-4 range as there really isnt that much more marbling in the prime filet than in the choice filet (because its a filet). I'm guessing that due to the nature of the roast cuts there isn't really a big enough difference to drive demand for a separate market for it so it al gets sold together.

I tend to believe this aswell. This also explains the inconsistency with sous vide cheap cuts like top round. Some come out dry where others may come out more moist and tender. I always make sure when i get a good deal on top round that its labeled choice grade. If its not labeled its most likely select or no grade.

[rotuts]

Im also leaning in this direction: after all if the Cow Side ends up as prime by grade, they have to be looking at those $$$$ cuts, which is what they are after.

the shoulder and leg might not have any extra marbling or vary little extra as they do the work. the rib-eye etc just sits around and gets fat on the grain lots.

so the rest is just marketed as choice. the two supermarkets I deal with do not sell select, or so Im told.

so Prime ground beef is just a new marketing ploy as was Certified black Angus.

[furzzy]

In the Streeterville neighborhood of Chicago, Fox & Obel carries prime. They carry both prime & aged prime. They age it themselves. They use the end cuts, etc. for their ground beef (and they have all 3: choice, prime, & aged prime), adding sweet suet for whether I want 15% or 20% fat - grinding it right then.

Sorry I can't quote prices, but if I knew the price I probably couldn't bring myself to buy it. ;-/

http://foxandobel.com/

[rotuts]

thanks furzzy. interesting sounding place. If you ever get a whiff of the price of prime chuck, Id be interested in knowing what it is for comparison. not the aged.

[FeChef]

thanks furzzy. interesting sounding place. If you ever get a whiff of the price of prime chuck, Id be interested in knowing what it is for comparison. not the aged.

On the subject of price for prime chuck, my guess is it most likely cost more then choice ny strip or ribeye, and in my opinion, even select ny strip that i can get everyday for $3.97/lb is better then choice chuck, and probably better then prime chuck aswell. Of course this is my opinion and i would never buy prime low end cuts unless it was just as cheap as choice. But im curious to know if people really buy into this hype.

[rotuts]

Id hoped to compare that price with the 'on sale' 85 % prime ground chuck thats now 4.49.

w SV especially, I cant imagine prime non-aged adding a lot for the buck. choice SV'd when you see the meat is mighty fine for me

ie sirloin tips with good marbling go on sale for 4.99, sometimes 3.99. I make pinwheels and SV up a storm! I 'age' those packs in the refrig for a week first.

[Baron d'Apcher]

so where does all the rest of 'prime' meat go? in this age of economics and marketing, what happens to it?

Not all the cuts within a side are graded, and a majority of whatever is deemed up to snuff is sent to wholesale purveyors and restaurants. Very little goes to supermarkets. Probably because the public is generally used to artificially devalued feedlot beef, beef has become a cheap commodity and few consumers are willing to pay a premium for quality food. My personal feelings on the limited availability of a wide variety of raw ingredients is that most Americans don't cook so there is little demand for butcher shops, specialized produce shops, bakeries, fishmongers and whatnot like in western Europe. Supermarket prize value & convenience.

When grading the carcass, the side is split between the 12th & 13th rib, separating the rib-eye from the shortloin, so that the inspector can grade based on maturity (age of the animal), intramuscular fat, fat cap, color and other standards based on the cut face. Its not like they grade each sub-primal like shanks and bottom round because they have no idea what the muscle looks like without cutting into the round and those cuts aren't premium or highly valuable.

In France the carcass is graded on a EUROP scale for musculature, and then 1-5 for marbling.

E= Excellent - U= Very Good - R= Good - O= Fair - P= Mediocre

I found the quality of beef in France to be infinitely better than the American tastes and standards of quality. The older steers (deemed too old by USDA standards) are able to grow to a larger weight and marble naturally with a grass-only diet, which explains why American 24 month old 100% grass-fed steers are so small and lean. The pistola cuts below are sides cut behind the 5th rib and the breast plate is cut out (it does not age well) and resembles a pistol or sorts. While the 100% grass fed beef often doesn't have the marbling and taste that American palates crave, it has far more anti-oxidants which allow it to stay bright red (corn finished beef will oxidize when cut) and has considerably more nutritional, environmental and ethical benefits. The fat -though not entirely apparent in the picture below- is the color of butter.

Minimum 4 year-old, 100% grass fed Normande breed rib-eye at Hugo Desnoyer.

Minimum 4 year-old 100% grass fed Limousin breed pistola cut sides, dry aged 4 weeks.

[rotuts]

interesting. thank you for the pics and link.

wonder what a steak from the first pic would cost.

[Rozin Abbas]

I feel like prime ground beef sounds almost like a gimmick. What essentially separates a prime cut from a choice cut is merely the marbling. If you grind it then you're just getting a fattier ground beef, which is easily achieved by adding your own fat to whatever you're grinding.

[ruthcooks]

I remember when ALL the beef at the grocery was prime, and my horror at seeing a cut marked "choice" for the first time. Do you suppose the standards for the grades have changed over time? I"ve seen quite a few pieces of choice beef which were marbled so well that they looked like prime.

[rotuts]

its my understanding that the grading standards dropped a notch about 20 years ago

today's choice was standard then. but i cant find this on the 'net.

[GlowingGhoul]

"I found the quality of beef in France to be infinitely better than the American tastes and standards of quality."

With all due respect, I find the quality of beef in France and Europe in general to be inferior in taste in texture to American corn finished beef. I'm sure there are exceptions, but the best beef I get while traveling in Europe is imported from Argentina or the US.

[furzzy]

rotuts & FeChef - I made a call to my butcher at Fox & Obel this morning. I hope I get this right. He said Prime is only from the front quarter, plus the rib steaks going on back. The chuck, etc., i.e. the "working muscles" have a different fibre structure, and can never be graded Prime.

So there is no such thing as Prime Chuck...therefore no Prime Ground Chuck. He, himself, likes sirloin. But, again, there's no such thing as Prime sirloin, because it comes from those "working muscle" groups.

I asked specifically about a Prime 7-bone Chuck Roast... No such thing.

He said the Council revised the grading standards in the '50's, and are the the process of doing so again now. New grades will include Prime, something between prime & choice that they haven't decided upon a name for, Choice, etc.

Rodin Abbas - the hype? Yes, I definitely buy into it. Two things: the Prime or Aged Prime ground beef comes from the ends & pieces left over from the butchering of the Prime cuts, which means it starts out most tender, since it doesn't come from a "working muscle" group. So it's not just a matter of adding more fat. And as I mentioned above, my butcher adds only sweet suet if I want a higher fat content.

Second, we recently (about a month ago) bought 3 bone-in rib eyes for a test: Aged Prime, Prime, & Choice. We had our son & family over to taste test them. They were cooked exactly the same: a little Grapeseed Oil, s&p. Definite difference! Only my husband preferred the Aged. The rest of us preferred thePrime. The Choice was a distant third.

Baron d'Apcher you seem to have lots of knowledge on this subject. I bow to that. However, I have to agree with Glowing Ghoul about beef origins.

Hope I got it right. I have it pretty clear in my mind, but don't know whether I was really able properly articulate.

[rotuts]

interesting. I was able to speak to the chief butcher that that RB's store and asked him about the prime cuts that were not the $$$ cuts.

he confirmed that its the front quarter. the non- $$$ cuts get sold to restaurants and a lot get shipped to Europe ( FR. Boeuf ?? )

I asked him if the prime chuck cut as counter 'slab' meat would taste any better than the same cut but choice. he said not for most cuts: chuck has plenty of intra muscular fat. its less expensive as it also has a lot of connective tissue.

he also said that in the boxes of meat they get that are cryovac'd about 20 % is labeled prime, they just add that to the regular meat in the non-service meat counter as choice. they only sell choice and above. but do not label any meat prime.

we talked cuts of shoulder, and and I mentioned in the past I used to get their blade roast on sale and cut out 4 steaks to get rid of that central tendon. I also asked if they would cut for me blade roast at the sale price when it went on sale. they only sell it as 'steaks' with the central tendon down the middle. He said they would be happy to cut any meat I wanted at the weekly price.

then he said ( ) in the latest box of blade roasts 'primal cut' there were 3 labeled Prime:

he also said that if I could get rid of that central tendon, and cook this rare ( which I can ) the meat would probably be noticeably taster. cant say if SV would be the way to go

so I got all three which he trimmed very nicely at $ 3.25 thats 12 'flat-iron' steaks !

In the past Ive cooked these on charcoal rare and were delicious.

so ... know your butcher.

this also might explain the sirloin tips I get on sale at Stop % Shop seen to also vary in marbling quite a bit.

wonder if this explains Costco Prime meat? I dont go there so cant look into it.

I of course will take the Butcher a few of the SV Blade steaks for him to try.

Edited May 28, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[rotuts]

after I take The Butcher the SV Blade Steak Ill ask more carefully if Prime goes down to sirloin. He also said he would save any 'prime' that comes in the choice boxes if I want and sell them to me cut anyway I like at the weekly market price.

i also think 'everyday' meat in the US carefully chosen and cooked is far better than the same from FR.

Edited May 28, 2013 by rotuts (log)

[rotuts]

Id be very curious to know from our Costo Shoppers what 'prime' cuts they sell there. I dont have a 'card' so dont go.

I understand they sell both choice and prime.

[GlowingGhoul]

Id be very curious to know from our Costo Shoppers what 'prime' cuts they sell there. I dont have a 'card' so dont go.

I understand they sell both choice and prime.

I've seen whole prime rib, rib steaks, t-bone, and NY Strip.

[judiu]

Rotus, guard that Butcher with your life! %>)

[Baron d'Apcher]

Cool Ranch Doritos, McDonald’s French fries and a slew of other processed foods are heavily engineered to taste good, but I hesitate to praise them as a quality product based solely on instant gratification, and I feel that the same considerations and consequences should be taken into account when judging the merits of a noble food item that demands so many resources to raise and bring to the table.

The EU only recently (2009) allowed the importation of more US and Canadian beef in exchange for lower tariffs on EU food items like truffles, roquefort, chocolates and such, but it still forbids the import of any beef that has been treated with growth hormones due to consumer health concerns and must be of the highest quality and still Europe only accounts for 3% of US beef exports. Less than 4% of graded US beef is prime. Most US beef exports go to Canada/Mexico and Japan. Virtually all the beef raised in the US is given synthetic growth hormones and antibiotics. Pastured steers account for barely any of the retail beef that is available to consumers and butcher shops that can meet that low demand are few and very far in between.

Brazilian, Uruguayan and Argentine beef is mostly 100% grass-fed, though the Brazilian rain forest has suffered significant deforestation as a result. European consumption of meat is in decline, while US consumption is expanding, along with health consequences from an increased collective waistband. Over 90% of the beef raised in the US goes to feedlots where they are given synthetic growth hormones and fed corn to fatten them up and get them to market quicker. Almost half the corn grown in the US goes to feeding cattle and the environmental consequences of that variety of industrial agriculture’s runoff down the Mississippi has created a “dead zone” in the gulf of Mexico the size of New Jersey where nothing grows.

An NPR vignette on Profit vs Quality

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113314725