The etiquette of being served first

[ngatti]

"The first thing we do is kill all the lawyers."

Nick  

The quote actually is:

"If tyranny is to prevail, first kill all the lawyers."

There is no mention of waiting if hot food is served at the execution.

That's the last time I use a T-shirt as a source.

Nick

[tommy]

unforunately, fat guy hasn't really posed a question here, so this will end up being a free-for-all even more quickly than it normally would. ho hum.

[Wilfrid]

I think, unfortunately, he inadvertently posted an uncontentious answer to a question which was not the one which arose on the Lespinasse thread.

[tommy]

I think, unfortunately, he inadvertently posted an uncontentious answer to a question which was not the one which arose on the Lespinasse thread.

agreed. we're not talking about that specific situation. although clearly stating this probably won't do anything to generalize this conversation.

[Liza]

Do you think Fat Guy has logged on anonymously and is sitting at his desk, murmuring "bwhahahahahah", nasty-villain-style?

Edited December 9, 2002 by Liza (log)

[tommy]

fat guy has a desk?

[Fat Guy]

Wow, I go out for a walk and we're on page two. Okay, let me gather the sources and make a presentation.

[macrosan]

If FatGuy is indeed correct (and who could doubt such a thing?) then why do all those upscale restaurants make such a circus of removing all the cloches from all the plates they have put on the table at exactly the same instant ? My assumption is that they believe that etiquette is that all diners start eating at the same time

I assume that Fattus is at this very moment compiling in digital form a string of references as long as the Iraqi disclosures.

[Wilfrid]

Wow, I go out for a walk and we're on page two.

Page one was just clearing our throats and clarifying the question. Off you go.

[tommy]

Wow, I go out for a walk and we're on page two.

Page one was just clearing our throats and clarifying the question. Off you go.

no no, page one was about assigning blame. it's the first (and arguably the most important) step when resolving any problem. didn't they teach you that at school?

[Wilfrid]

First laugh aloud of the day. Thank you.

[Liza]

Ditto.

[Fat Guy]

Okay, here's the deal: Most written etiquette sources discuss this in the context of banquets. Remember, the basic codification of etiquette occurred in rich people's homes and not in restaurants. Restaurant etiquette is derivative. There's nothing I have here that specifically speaks about what to do in a restaurant when someone is missing from the table.

So I called my best etiquette source, who has asked not to be named but who has written two books on the subject and who teaches those very expensive etiquette classes that Japanese businessmen take when they want to learn American etiquette. Her comment was, "Why would you wait? Do you think the missing person will be more comfortable because everybody waited and let their food get cold?"

[macrosan]

So I called my best etiquette source... who teaches those very expensive etiquette classes that Japanese businessmen take when they want to learn American etiquette. Her comment was, "Why would you wait? ..."

OK, so we're all OK if the missing person is a Japanese who has been on this lady's etiquette course. And ...?

[Fat Guy]

Macrosan, if you were the missing purpose, would you prefer that your tablemates waited?

(Edit: Nice Freudian slip there, huh? Please read purpose as person.)

[hollywood]

Wow, I go out for a walk and we're on page two.

So, was it poor etiquette for us not to await your return before posting?

[Fat Guy]

Yes, Hollywood, you are very rude.

[hollywood]

why do all those upscale restaurants make such a circus of removing all the cloches from all the plates they have put on the table at exactly the same instant ?

Drama?

[macrosan]

LOL Hollywood

No Steven, I wouldn't want anyone to wait, and yet I would wait for someone else. Oh boy, I must be crazy

[Liza]

why do all those upscale restaurants make such a circus of removing all the cloches from all the plates they have put on the table at exactly the same instant ?

Drama?

So they can replace the cloches with berets?

[hollywood]

Yes, Hollywood, you are very rude.

That's lewd, very lewd!

[Fat Guy]

No Steven, I wouldn't want anyone to wait, and yet I would wait for someone else.

There's a word for that, and I don't remember what it is. It's basically a form of etiquette overcompensation.

I don't mean to defer to authority here. I think etiquette should make sense. Part of the sense of any rule of etiquette should be that it makes people feel comfortable and lends a kind of predictability to social interactions.

From every angle I can think of, it makes sense to start eating your hot food when it's served. I mean, if it's less than a minute or so and it's just a question of putting people's plates down, it seems unnecessary to dive into your food the second it hits the table. But if we're talking about a delay that will impact negatively on the food, what's the point of waiting? Who benefits, either from the standpoint of utility or the standpoint of comfort? It seems that the only person who benefits in terms of comfort is the person who waits, and that's just selfish -- hardly the cornerstone of etiquette.

[ngatti]

All excellent points, Fat Guy. However my only point is that this type of thing can be avoided altogether by having some floor staff who are hip to what is going on at their tables.

I don't think a restauranteur should ever place his guests in the situation where a choice must be made in the first place.

Nick

[macrosan]

No Steven, I wouldn't want anyone to wait, and yet I would wait for someone else.

There's a word for that, and I don't remember what it is.

I think the word is "stupid"

[Wilfrid]

Gordon Bennett (a British exposutlaion indicative of frustration) it is like herding cats, sometimes.

Set aside what it makes sense to do, because that is only indirectly relevant. A huge amount of everyday etiquette doesn't make sense - shaking hands?

Set aside the inconclusive response from Fat Bloke's expert: ("Why would you wait? Do you think the missing person will be more comfortable because everybody waited and let their food get cold?" Possible answer: "Maybe not, but I think they'd be surprised and disappointed to find we had finished our food and they had to sit and eat while we stared at them over our empty plates.")

My question is really very simple. Does anyone think, that it is generally accepted good manners, in the States (not France) today, to start eating a course while a diner is briefly absent from the table? I do not know anyone who does, and I haven't seen anyone on eGullet claim that it is. Cabby says they do it differently in France, Bux says it would be a good idea to re-think etiquette along rational lines, and Fat Bloke says it makes sense not to let the food get cold.

Now, come along, I have a busy evening, but when I get back on line I expect everyone to have concentrated very hard and answered the actual question.

Humph.