Turkey Brining

[rob7]

I ended up brining a turkey this year. I used Alton Brown's recipe as well... the one that uses 1 pound of salt and 1 pound of dark brown sugar. I brined for about 10 hours then I deep fried the turkey. Everything came out great. I was concerned that it would be a bit salty but it wasn't at all.

The turkey I used was a "fresh turkey". The packaging on it did not state that it was injected. It only said that it had about 5% retained moisture.

[zeph74]

I brined turkeys at work this year. 8 huge birds, turned out awesome.

I mish-mashed Thomas Keller's chicken brine recipe, removed and added a few things. Most notably I used a local organic apple cider, and various spices. Used pureed apple and spices for the baste.

End result was moist, perfectly seasoned, and not sweet at all...with just a hint of apple. I wrote everything down so I can repeat next year

Edited December 5, 2008 by zeph74 (log)

[Hest88]

For the third year in a row I used the San Francisco Chronicle's salt and sugar proportions. In my ongoing quest to make the turkey more palatable to my Chinese relatives, though, the rest of the brine spices were radically different. In the last few years I've figured out that (other than the salt) the amount of spicing that gets infused through the brine is diluted enough so the amounts are rather forgiving and you really need a whole lot of spice to really make a difference. So, this year, I dumped (and I mean dumped--no measuring at all) a lot of cinnamon into the brine, threw in a small handful of star anise, a small handful of bay leaves, and a large handful of whole black pepper. Then I brined a 9lb heritage turkey for about 24 hours, removed it from the brine to air dry overnight, rinsed very briefly, then rubbed all over (including under the skin) with a handful of 5 spice and butter.

Turkey was done in a really short amount of time--like 1.5 hours at 425 degrees--but I ended up turning up the heat to 500 and leaving it in a bit longer to crisp up some of the skin on the bottom.

This was also the first year I didn't start breast down and then flip midway through, which may have accounted for the under-crisped bottom. The top and sides were nicely browned, though.

[blackp]

Apologies if this topic is covered elsewhere but I couldn't find the answer to my question.

I purchased a pack of turkey wings and brined them in a solution of 7% salt and 3% sugar where 100% equals the weight of the turkey and the brine. To explain - the wings weighed 1.5kg I made 2 litres of brine so 100% equals 3.5kg therefore I used 245g of salt and 100g of sugar.

I put it into the fridge (running at 4-5C) for 48 hours.

When I opened the container I was confronted by a strong smell. It didn't smell "bad", or similar to a smell I would associate with meat which has gone off, but it wasn't pleasant.

I've rinsed the wings off dried them and vacuum bagged them individually with a view to cooking them sous vide at 58C for 12 hours which is Modernist Cuisine's recommendation. I plan to roast the wings briefly in a very hot oven after sous vide cooking.

Does anyone have any experience with this bad smell after brining turkey?

Should I just chuck the lot and try again?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Peter.

[HKDave]

It's impossible to say without being able to smell the brine. Used brine usually doesn't smell great, but it shouldn't smell very strong. Given that turkey wings are not expensive and hospital bills are, you may want to err on the side of caution and chuck them.

I assume you're following this:

http://modernistcuisine.com/2010/11/a-modernist-thanksgiving/

To avoid a repeat with the same uncertainty, I suggest following their method of a dry rub rather than a liquid brine. If you want to stick with liquid, I'd suggest a stronger brine with a shorter soak time.

[ChrisTaylor]

Did you add the wings to the brine while it was still hot?

[blackp]

Thanks Dave,

I'd pretty much decided to bin the wings, and you are quite right - they didn't cost much and the hospital would be way more expensive if it became necessary.

I had not noticed the Modernist Thanksgiving recipe - when I looked for inspiration for brining/sous vide cooking turkey I turned to MC and found the parametric recipe to brine turkey along with SV temp and time.

I will take your suggestion and use dry salt the next lot I get.

Thanks for your help,

Regards,

Peter.

[blackp]

No, I dissolved the sugar and salt into cold tap water, then added the turkey from the fridge, after rinsing it.

[ChrisTaylor]

Is it possible you bought shitty meat?

[blackp]

Is it possible you bought shitty meat?

Hi Chris,

Possible, but not likely - it smelt quite neutral before brining.

Anyhow - I've chucked it just in case and will try again.

Cheers,

Peter.

[ChrisTaylor]

It's not likely, no, but it can happen. I've bought meat before--very rarely--and it 'should' be okay, based on how long I've had it, but I'll take it out of the fridge a day or two after purchase and be met with the most repulsive smell.

Is there anything else in your fridge that would smell strongly if, say, the fridge was on its way out?

[blackp]

It's not likely, no, but it can happen. I've bought meat before--very rarely--and it 'should' be okay, based on how long I've had it, but I'll take it out of the fridge a day or two after purchase and be met with the most repulsive smell.

Is there anything else in your fridge that would smell strongly if, say, the fridge was on its way out?

Hi Chris,

In this case the only thing was the turkey. I unpacked the tray of wings from the supermarket and rinsed them and then put them into the brine in a sealed tupperware container. This was put into the booze fridge in the garage which has only bottles in it no other food at all. In any case the turkey and brine were sealed in plastic.

The fridge is <5 years old and I've tested the temperature using my reference thermometer and it ranges between 4C and 5C.

The fact that the turkey didn't smell of course doesn't mean that it wasn't somehow "off". That's my best guess - or of course it could have been perfectly OK but now we'll never know and at least nobody got sick ;-)

Cheers,

Peter.

[SylviaLovegren]

I wonder if having it tightly closed was the problem? I know with fresh meat if it's going to be held for more than a day it needs to get some air circulation to keep from going off. No idea whether brined meat would work the same way, but otherwise I don't see what could go wrong.

[ChrisZ]

I'm still a novice at brining / sous vide but just a couple of notes-

- The brining ratios you mention are actually those suggested when you use water (only) as 100%. This is not equilibrium brining, so although the setup and calculations are easier doing it this way you need to include an additional rest period after brining and before cooking, for the salt to distribute evenly in the meat. I assume you're using the brining tables in volume 3, pg 168? The suggested ratios when you have meat+water as 100% are 1% salt and .4% sugar. In your example, where meat+water = 3.5kg you would need 35g salt and 14g sugar. This method is equilibrium brining- the advantage is that you can't 'over salt' the meat.

- When I brine, I follow Heston Blumenthal's example in his 'perfect roast chicken' episode and sterilise the surface of the meat first. This simply involves dunking it in a saucepan of boiling water for a few seconds and then dunking it in a pot of ice-water. You can watch him

. In his case, with a whole chicken, he leaves it in the boiling water for about 30seconds. When I'm using much smaller pieces of meat that don't have internal cavities, I usually just count to three. This is really easy and simple to do, and offers an extra degree of safety- any bacteria on your meat is most likely to be on the surface. I think it's worth the effort. It's possible that sterilising the surface of your wings first with a quick bath in boiling water would've prevented you problem.

- I've had a pork belly in brine for a few days and just opened the bag, and I couldn't smell anything at all. Can't wait to cook and eat it...

[Norm Matthews]

If these wings were from a meat processor it is quite likely that they were already brined or injected with a saline solution and brining them again would be unnecessary and possibly produce a too salty and water logged product.

[blackp]

I'm still a novice at brining / sous vide but just a couple of notes-

- The brining ratios you mention are actually those suggested when you use water (only) as 100%. This is not equilibrium brining, so although the setup and calculations are easier doing it this way you need to include an additional rest period after brining and before cooking, for the salt to distribute evenly in the meat. I assume you're using the brining tables in volume 3, pg 168? The suggested ratios when you have meat+water as 100% are 1% salt and .4% sugar. In your example, where meat+water = 3.5kg you would need 35g salt and 14g sugar. This method is equilibrium brining- the advantage is that you can't 'over salt' the meat.

Hmmm - not so sure!

On Page 3:168 it says "...scaling in column 1 are relative to the combined weight of the meat and water..." ... "Quantities in the scaling 2 column are for use with the more traditional high-concentration approach...."

But on page 3:171 when describing the High-Concenration Method it says:

"1. .....Use the "scaling 2" column for quantities..."

"2. Follow steps 2 - 5 above"

Step 2 from "above" says:

"Weigh the total amount of meat plus water and use the resulting weight as the 100% for scaling....."

I will ask this question in the MC pages - perhaps we've jointly discovered an error?

And I will follow up on Heston's method - thanks for the tip!

Cheers,

Peter.

[blackp]

If these wings were from a meat processor it is quite likely that they were already brined or injected with a saline solution and brining them again would be unnecessary and possibly produce a too salty and water logged product.

The wings did come from a poultry processor, but it is not usual here in Australia for any poultry to be brined prior to packaging.

I will purchase another pack when I see them and check the ingredients list - but I'm sure it will say Turkey and nothing else.

Cheers,

Peter.

[ChrisZ]

I will ask this question in the MC pages - perhaps we've jointly discovered an error?

I think that's it. I re-read the entire brining section and I'm still interpreting the tables in the same way- that is, if you include the meat & water together as 100% then the salt is 1% and sugar .4% (scaling 1). But if you include water only as 100% then the salt is 7% and the sugar is 3% (scaling 2). The same tables are also repeated in the kitchen manual with the same descriptions.

I think you're right that the text on page 171, where it says "follow steps 2-5 above" should actually read "follow steps 3-5 above", otherwise there is no difference between the two methods! Hopefully this will be confirmed in the 'Modernist Cuisine' thread. I checked the errata on the Modernist Cuisine website and it wasn't listed as an error, but I'm certain that it is.

At least salt, sugar and turkey wings are cheap!

BTW - upon re-reading the brining section I noticed that it specifically said to exclude the weight of bones in your calculations. I have no idea how much the bones weigh in a turkey wing but this would also have an impact on your totals.

[FeChef]

I was given a turkey to make for the holiday and its one of those pre seasoned turkeys in a 8% turkey stock,salt and sugar solution. I usually brine my turkeys in a 4.5% salt solution. Im wondering if I brine it wih my 4.5%, will it reduce the 8% brine it already has, or make it more salty? Should i just leave it as is? Im going to be removing the breast and sous vide the pieces individually.

[Shel_B]

Don't do it ... you'll be adding to the salt content and will achieve little, if anything, in the way of flavor. You may also risk mushier meat, but I'm just guessing on that point.

[MasteringTheFlame]

If it is already pre-brined you will want to leave it as is the work has been done for you already. I prefer to brine them myself too, as it gives you more control with your brine solution and seasoning. Since it was given to you, just run with it and see how it turns out.