A Folding Knife for the Kitchen

[mr drinkie]

Thanks for the pictures. Now you got me wanting one.

k.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Thanks for posting the pictures.

japanwoodworker says their price is $250, but with shipping and customs from Japan, and wire transfer and foreign exchange fees, that may not be too different from ordering direct.

They sent me this screenshot from their stock control software. It's not on their website yet, but they have the knife on order--

Edited September 2, 2010 by David A. Goldfarb (log)

[Foodietopo]

250$ is not a bad price when you consider the really bad exchange and the shipping.

Thanks for starting this thread, I found a great knife thanks to it.

[David A. Goldfarb]

Thank you for the report! It's hard to get much of a sense for these things just from a catalogue photo. I asked japanwoodworker to let me know when they have it in stock.

[Blether]

250$ is not a bad price...

If you're happy with your purchase, I'm happy for you. I can't resist saying that that's a lot of dough for a knife that, freehand aside, will restrict you to the 4" strip round the edge of your cutting board. Where you gonna put your fingers, for one thing ? And whenever you cut a slice off something, it'll fall on the floor, for another.

Sure is pretty. Japan's doing a nice job of mimicking the old Middle Eastern technology.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Blether (log)

[Dakki]

Are you talking about Anime?

I agree with your assessment of its usefulness but it sure is a pretty piece of steel.

[Blether]

Anime ? Well, I wasn't talking about 'zero'

It's funny, the folded and re-folded steel that was/remains part of traditional Japanese swordsmithing, and the same steel-folding seen in Damascus blades, was in its time a workaround for poor forging technology, wasn't it ? You can't make a good, evenly-blended, proportion-controlled steel in the old way in a charcoal forge. The carbon, in particular, won't be well-distributed. So you fold and hammer, and fold and hammer, and fold and hammer till you've effectively done the blending after the steel solidifies. Result - a blade that won't break at a carbon-fault when you hit something with it - your enemy's sword, or his ribcage, say, or your broken-down cart.

Nowadays you make a good steel in the first place. Folding is reduced to decoration (let's say for now that sandwich-construction-in-different steels is another interesting subject, but only a loosely-related one).

Of course, Dakki, between the two of us you're the one who really knows this kind of stuff...

[Fat Guy]

I think I'd rather use a hunting knife than a santoku for on-the-road kitchen work. I really just don't like the santoku shape. And once you get into hunting knives you can find plenty of decent ones for $20 (US). I mean, I'm sure one can work with something like thisBuck knife.

That being said, I'm not sure I'm sold on the advantages of a folding knife. I'd lean more toward getting a good-fitting plastic cover for a cheap Forschner or something.

[Foodietopo]

Like I said, it's a nice blade, but I won't replace my regular santoku or chef knife with it anytime soon.

The finger position is not perfect, but it's a much solid performer than my old Opinel.

250$ is not a bad price...

If you're happy with your purchase, I'm happy for you. I can't resist saying that that's a lot of dough for a knife that, freehand aside, will restrict you to the 4" strip round the edge of your cutting board. Where you gonna put your fingers, for one thing ? And whenever you cut a slice off something, it'll fall on the floor, for another.

Sure is pretty. Japan's doing a nice job of mimicking the old Middle Eastern technology.

[Foodietopo]

I often carry my knife with me with a plastic cover. It's probably the cheapest option and the most ergonomic.

That said, I love gadgets, probably why I ended up buying this knife.

I think I'd rather use a hunting knife than a santoku for on-the-road kitchen work. I really just don't like the santoku shape. And once you get into hunting knives you can find plenty of decent ones for $20 (US). I mean, I'm sure one can work with something like thisBuck knife.

That being said, I'm not sure I'm sold on the advantages of a folding knife. I'd lean more toward getting a good-fitting plastic cover for a cheap Forschner or something.

[Fat Guy]

By the way, my solution for cooking on the go is a Forschner Fibrox 8" chef's knife ($30 US) wrapped in a kitchen towel, secured with two rubber bands, and thrown in my shoulder bag.

[Foodietopo]

I found a very light weight knife roll in Osaka. It's made out of canvas, it's very simple and cheap. I am not sure if it was a Japanese product, I haven't seen them on American websites.

[Blether]

Mine are my regular knives, offcuts of leather and bits of kitchen string(/old bootlaces):

(I set off to make marmalade on a sailing trip during Golden Week, carrying the stock pot, the chopping board, and the fruit, too !)

In fact I bought the 10" chefs' and the two smaller ones - paring and veg knives - just earlier this year. Ordered online from Robert Welch on Monday night, signed for at my door in Tokyo early Thursday evening. They come wicked sharp, the three, shipped, were like USD80, all-in and I've been using the same knives for over 20 years, so I know they're good.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Blether (log)

[Dakki]

Anime ? Well, I wasn't talking about 'zero'

It's funny, the folded and re-folded steel that was/remains part of traditional Japanese swordsmithing, and the same steel-folding seen in Damascus blades, was in its time a workaround for poor forging technology, wasn't it ? You can't make a good, evenly-blended, proportion-controlled steel in the old way in a charcoal forge. The carbon, in particular, won't be well-distributed. So you fold and hammer, and fold and hammer, and fold and hammer till you've effectively done the blending after the steel solidifies. Result - a blade that won't break at a carbon-fault when you hit something with it - your enemy's sword, or his ribcage, say, or your broken-down cart.

Nowadays you make a good steel in the first place. Folding is reduced to decoration (let's say for now that sandwich-construction-in-different steels is another interesting subject, but only a loosely-related one).

Of course, Dakki, between the two of us you're the one who really knows this kind of stuff...

Thanks for the vote of confidence. You're right about folded-steel and twist-steel techs being developed to deal with less-than-optimum metallurgy, independently in several places (Classical Rome, for one); IMHO there's no real reason to use them anymore except for looks. Somewhere on my office hard drive is an early Enlightenment translated French cutlery-making book that describes the process of making (and faking) just such a blade; I could sent it to you if you're interested. The legendary "Damascus" blades (actually from India) were made by a different process however, using iron ores that had certain impurities which forced a precipitation of microcarbides in bands, which resulted in blades similar in appearance to the folded-steel and twist-steel ones. This particular tech was lost until a couple of decades ago, when some eggheads ("boffins" to you)at Iowa State managed to reverse-engineer it.

These days we call folded-steel and twist-steel blades "welded Damascus" and precipitated microcarbide steel "wootz Damascus."

I still prize my welded Damascus kitchen knives, proudly made by unskilled factory workers in Seki City, Japan. Chicks dig them because they're pretty.

[Blether]

... Chicks dig them because they're pretty.

I don't need knives for that 'cos I'm so pretty

[Dakki]

Ugh, last post I forgot to write what I meant to say in the first place.

Anyway, the point of all this folding and welding was to wrap a soft but very tough layer of steel around a core of fragile but very hard steel, so you'd get the benefits of both. This is why fancy Japanese knives list two kinds of steel in the specs.

Of course, these days you can get a homogeneous chunk of steel that's as tough and hard as you could want it for kitchen use anyway.

[mr drinkie]

I often carry my knife with me with a plastic cover. It's probably the cheapest option and the most ergonomic.

That said, I love gadgets, probably why I ended up buying this knife.

I know it might be a fairly expensive knife and there are certainly other options for portable cutlery, but when it comes to knives, a lot of us don't always reason correctly. Why am I looking to pick up my third Gyuto? Why did I get one custom rehandled? And why did my friend pick up that super expensive custom hunting knife? There are always practical and cheaper knives that will perform well, but when knives become a hobby a lot of us seem to take it a step further -- and may even buy a Damascus VG-10 folding santoku. The other night I almost bought a WWII bayonet off of eBay just to sharpen it up and use as an outdoor hacking tool.

Now with that said, here is another (fun) option.

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=10.093.10&dept_id=13408

This harvest knife from Japanwoodworker is almost like a nakiri and comes with a scabbard that you can hook to your belt. Take that to the next picnic.

k.

Edited September 3, 2010 by mr drinkie (log)

[David A. Goldfarb]

250$ is not a bad price...

If you're happy with your purchase, I'm happy for you. I can't resist saying that that's a lot of dough for a knife that, freehand aside, will restrict you to the 4" strip round the edge of your cutting board. Where you gonna put your fingers, for one thing ?

Good point. Foodietopo, how wide is the Maruyoshi blade?

The Ryback blade is 1-7/8" wide, which is actually wider than my Wusthof santoku.

I generally use a hammer grip with most knives, but for certain techniques and for knives that don't have enough knuckle clearance, I sometimes switch to a pinch grip. I suspect the Maruyoshi would be more of a pinch grip knife.

[Foodietopo]

David,

I was surprised about how wide the blade was, I won't be home until Monday, but I will take exact measures and post them.

I think the pinch grip is perfect with this knife. I diced an onion with it last night, no problems. The blade is scary sharp, I believe sharp enough to shave with. I shave with a Japanese straight razor and this knife is a close second.

[Foodietopo]

The Maruyoshi is 3.2 cm wide. I am sorry, I don't know how much it is in inches, I am Canadian

[Dakki]

~1.25"

[David A. Goldfarb]

Thanks for measuring. Just looking at how wide various blades that I have are and how I hold them, I may be leaning toward the Ryback again. 32mm may be manageable, but given the width and shape of the handle, it could also be a bit awkward for me. I prefer a wider wooden handle like you've got on the Maruyoshi to a thin flat metal handle like the Ryback has, but with such a short knife, I think I'd rather have the knuckle clearance to be able to use the whole blade.

[Blether]

With that knife, I'd be concerned at how comfortable a pinch grip I could devise - hence my comment about where you put your fingers.

[David A. Goldfarb]

I ordered the Ryback. Price with DHL shipping from Germany to New York, which excludes VAT, was $98.18. I'll report back when it arrives.

[David A. Goldfarb]

The Ryback arrived. I haven't had a chance to make photographs yet, but first impressions--

This is a usable, good sized folding kitchen knife, and it comes in a nicely padded cordura pouch.

The edge is comparable to the factory edge a decent German knife, but I've come to like a finer edge, so I'll make it sharper. Fit and finish are very good.

There is a belt clip and a hole for a lanyard. I thought the belt clip would be an ergonomic problem, but it isn't. I don't know that I would want to carry a knife I'm using for food on my belt.

The blade is 4.5", about 4-3/8 usable cutting edge. Full length from handle to tip is about 10-3/4 inches.

When the knife is fully open, it would be very difficult to defeat the frame lock and have the knife accidentally close on you, but do make sure it is fully open and not in an intermediate position where the frame lock hasn't clicked in, because it clicks a confusing detente before it open all the way.

The knife rocks well, but the balance is more toward the handle than I like. It's definitely more of a hammer grip than a pinch grip knife, but the flat shape of the handle means you have as much control with a hammer grip on this knife as you would with a pinch grip on a somewhat longer knife, and you can use the whole blade.

Notice how the end of the handle curves down. If you try to cut in the middle of a large cutting board, this part of the handle bangs on the cutting surface before the edge completes its arc, so you still have to cut toward the edge of the board, but since you can use a hammer grip, you've got a little breathing room.